She Left, not as unsure (2)

[Shrike]

Feeling good today. Had a bad start, but got out of bed and went to church with the rest of family. Although my personal beliefs don't match up with a lot of what they say, it feels good to spend spend time with them. Helping with work around the property gives me something to do on Sunday's besides sit around.

I am grateful that this has made me grow closer with my family. I am actually having meaningful conversation with my 80yr old grandfather. Which is a big deal for me since he barely talked to me the first 18 years of my life. This is such a huge positive for me I can't express this enough.

This has also shown me a lot of the issues my mom still has with her split from dad. She still holds some resentment and anger in her over what happened. She was also very controlling in a passive way and would constantly nag at us growing up about how we would never do anything right or we needed to do this s certain way or God wouldn't approve of this blah blah. It really made me resent her and is part of the reason I was quick to join the military. But now I see this in myself in my interaction with my daughter and have stopped cold turkey. I want her to be able to do what she thinks is right for her. And learn from her mistakes.

[isittoolate]

Havhope - you are on the other side of the planet from me but I can see your growth from here.

Take Care

IS

[Shrike]

Stole this from the validation thread. Filing it away for future reference.

12 Lessons Learned In 12 Years Of Marriage

We were married before I graduated college. Pregnant with our first child shortly after. I finished college. New baby. Two miscarriages. Four more children.When the youngest was born, we had five children under 8 years old. Owned four homes. Rented a house and an apartment somewhere in between. Five different jobs with four different companies. Lived in four cities. In many ways, life has been on fast-forward. We've been drinking from a fire hose. In the course of these 12 years, we've learned a great deal. About ourselves. About each other. About the importance of marriage. And why it's worth fighting for. We were young, in love and ready for marriage when we said yes in our early twenties. But that doesn't necessarily mean we were prepared.12 years later, here are 12 things that have been clarified for us in our marriage:

1. 50/50 expectations lead to disappointment. For a season, we viewed marriage like it was a game. A competition. If I do this, you should do that. Meet me in the middle here, do a little more there. If you do 20 things, I'll do 20. That sort of game. But the true work is done when one of you can't get to the middle. When it's up to the other to go the extra mile. Maybe that ratio is 90/10 for a season if a spouse is sick, stressed, even depressed. Don't view marriage as a scorecard, someone always loses that way.

2. Keep adventure alive. In my early days of dating Brooke, I pulled out all the stops. We went on long hikes, I made her candlelit dinners, I worked hard at the chase. When the years and responsibilities piled up, I let that fire die too many times. Fighting to keep adventure alive doesn't have to look like a trip to Paris; it could be a last-minute trip to a local hotel, a surprise baby sitter for the evening or even a simple handwritten note. Inject your marriage with adventure.

3. Kiss each other first. I'm imperfect at this, but I try to kiss Brooke first when I get home from work. Before I kiss our five kids. It's a small thing that points to a much bigger reality. For me to be a great dad, I have to be a great husband first. Otherwise, we'll become roommates who are collectively raising our kids.

4. Grit is often the best description of love. It was easy to love Brooke when we were newlyweds. Easy for her to love me during seasons of comfort. But it's much more difficult to fight for love when you lose a baby. Or have a huge financial setback. Or confess a really ugly secret about yourself. Fairy tales are great for movies, but real life is more often confusing, chaotic and messy. Dig in when it gets hard.

5. Real life happens in the mundane. Huge promotions, babies being born, buying the dream house. The peaks of marriage are great. However, most days are mundane. I've been guilty of missing the little moments while I work to make the big ones happen. I'm realizing that life happens in those little moments. I'm learning to love the journey every bit as much as the destination.

6. Proximity doesn't equal presence. Getting home from work early, getting a sitter for a date and even taking a vacation alone are all great things. But physically being close isn't the same as being close emotionally. For me, most of the time that looks like staring at my iPhone instead of looking my wife in the eye. Being more concerned with my Twitter or Instagram feed than I am about hearing my wife's heart. When you have the ability to be together physically, be there emotionally as well.

7. Comparison will kill your joy. In an age of edited facades of other people's lives on Facebook and other outlets, it's easy to feel like your marriage suucks. Like you're getting lapped by the Jones family. When I begin to compare our money, house, kids' performance and marriage to others through a distant lens, I'm the one that loses. It robs my joy. There will always be others with more; don't play that game.

8. You'll each have the opportunity to throw it away. We all know the marriages that end in pain instead of celebration. Divorce instead of dancing at the 50th anniversary party. Brooke and I are realizing that some days it's far easier to give up than keep fighting. But each day, we keep choosing each other. We continue to be honest about where we fail each other. Because it's worth it.

9. Take initiative for the benefit of the other. We talk often in our family about whether we're being givers or takers. Are we giving and serving? Or are we only taking and using? I'd argue that life is best lived when you're giving yourself away for the benefit of another.

10. Live in community. Marriage is hard and messy, but also beautiful and redeeming. Lived in isolation, you may be tempted to give up. But when surrounded with friends and family that know your strengths as well as your struggles, you realize you have support and encouragement.

11. Will you forgive me? Let's face it; in marriage, we fail each other more often than we'd like to admit. We tell a white lie, we forget a huge appointment, we get angry. There are a million other examples. Instead of shifting blame or dodging responsibility, marriages get stronger when you start to say "will you forgive me?" Even more than an "I'm sorry," this question leads to restoration and healing.

12. Love wins. This list could be a mile long. I didn't touch on things like honesty, making time for dates and speaking highly of your spouse. But all the lists in the world won't keep your marriage strong if it lacks love. In the end, love wins. It conquers all. It removes doubt. It pushes through fear. It invites deeper purpose. Love wins.

[Shrike]

Thank you IS! I feel different..

[Shrike]

Things I know 2 months after day zero:

My marriage is over

She is my ex, she is not the girl I knew.

She is her own person whom I have no control over

She is dating another man

I still love her

I am physically sick still from anxiety over all of this

I have taken steps to control the physical sickness

I am in an ok place mentally but have also contacted a therapist for this

My daughter is showing signs of depression/anxiety, I have also contacted a therapist for her and I.

I am controlling my emotions about everything surprisingly well since last week.

Finding out about om, actually may have been the catalyst for me to start really detaching.

Om is apparently good with kids, works as a speech therapist for handicapped children, a really nice guy, is more outgoing than my wife and likes beer a lot. Thanks for telling me oh he also likes to talk to and try and date married women good stuff

Yes the paragraph above was jealousy. I'm working on that as well. Don't feel as bad as I make it out to be right now. I promise.

Moving on, my job stinks, need to start school asap

I am attractive, young, make a decent living, in pretty good shape, very humble and I binge watch game of thrones.

I deserve the love and attention that I can bring to a relationship returned to me.

I am also very sarcastic!

I came at her too strong with the emotion while moving stuff together, scared her a bit, because I think she almost wanted to come back for a second. She seemed to be second guessing things, but I may be off on this. Can't read her mind! No expectations helped after she went back into her rolly poley ball and distanced again.

Will back off again and reassess the dynamic.

[JulieH]

Hi havhope,

Again, I am sorry that you are experiencing this, but I am happy you are ready to start detaching.

I know it's easy to say but don't think about OM. He could be helping the poor like mother Theresa, but he does not have the character you do. For one big reason...Anyone that seeks out married woman with kids has issues. Even a married women that is unhappy or recently separated (and obviously on rebound). He is a loser with no moral compass and lack of any true insight. He is very selfish. Time will reveal this. So no need to be jealous. Know your value.

I WOULD STRONGLY ADVISE that you immediatly discuss this with attorney... Is there any laws that ensure daughter is not in contact with OM ? Your wife might be dating him, but your daughter should not have any exposure to him. I would take this very seriously. I don't trust anyone when it comes to children. They have no one else but us to protect them, so this is a boundary that cannot be delayed.

Forgive yourself. Recognize your contributions to your marital demise, but this is about her, so don't feel bad about every emotion you have. Your human. Just keep your dignity going forward.

[Shrike]

Hey Julie!

I realize that the above post may have come off more negative than I intended it too! I actually felt pretty ok writing it.

I need to stay away from the thoughts of OM and her together. That leads to some very negative energy inside. And he isnt worth my time.

I couldnt find any laws on this, and the lawyer said there really isnt anything I can do. It might harm her case against me if we where to go to court but that would be down to the judge etc... I just need to be really clear on the boundary. And consequences? Im not sure.

I have been letting the emotions do their thing, run the course, taking a deep breath, then making decisions.

[JulieH]

Have hope,

After I posted, when I reread your post I saw that you were being sarcastic!

As a single mom, that will one day start dating again, it is often advised to never bring your dates/ relationships around the children unless you are very serious and know the man well. It is scary what kind of predators there are out there. That's why I brought it up.

Sounds like you are doing well with the emotions....that is my goal as well.

[Shrike]

Hahaha, I was, but it still feels like sand paper against my soul.

I agree completely about not bringing OP around the children. And made it very clear to her that it would be unacceptable. Same goes for me.

emotions... are complicated. my therapist is helping a lot with how I deal with them. And of course responding instead of reacting to things has been helping, though difficult to practice in the moment.

i was trying to catch up on your thread so i could make a meaningful post, im sorry the anger has such a hold on you right now. its hard to let it go. forgiveness is easy to preach hard to practice.

[dwh15]

HH, I love the 12 Lessons Learned In 12 Years Of Marriage. It's golden advice and something all of us should take to heart in future relationships.

My marriage is over

She is my ex, she is not the girl I knew.

She is her own person whom I have no control over

She is dating another man

I still love her

I am physically sick still from anxiety over all of this

I have taken steps to control the physical sickness

I am in an ok place mentally but have also contacted a therapist for this

My daughter is showing signs of depression/anxiety, I have also contacted a therapist for her and I.

I am controlling my emotions about everything surprisingly well since last week.

Finding out about om, actually may have been the catalyst for me to start really detaching.

Great insights, and also pretty typical of a WW situation. Sounds like you're handling it well. Nice job - keep it up.

Om is apparently good with kids, works as a speech therapist for handicapped children, a really nice guy, is more outgoing than my wife and likes beer a lot. Thanks for telling me oh he also likes to talk to and try and date married women good stuff

LOL at that last sentence. Isn't it crazy how nice they seem on the surface? My W's OM is also a "nice" guy. I met him a couple of times and in normal circumstances, it's probably someone I would like and get along with. Only that one little negative personality trait he has of being a home wrecker and going after a married woman with young children.

I deserve the love and attention that I can bring to a relationship returned to me.

Yes, you do. We all do.

I came at her too strong with the emotion while moving stuff together, scared her a bit, because I think she almost wanted to come back for a second. She seemed to be second guessing things, but I may be off on this. Can't read her mind! No expectations helped after she went back into her rolly poley ball and distanced again.

You're on the right track. Back it off, don't pursuit. Try to focus on yourself. The mind of a WW is going a million miles/second. She will be all over the place emotionally. Distance from that and look for the big signs.