Definitive proof FB was invented by the devil. Since my post BD paranoia has contributed to impossible standards for future partners and eliminated 100% of the dating pool anyway, no harm in adding more, like no FB or social media.
Thanks for the heads up Pho. Make sure you drop me a strong hint in your next life. For being smart I'm really dense.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
It will be a very strong hint Zues. Like 2.0. Nobody will be fooled. It will make me happy if the old stuff I posted gets buried in the archives, anything new I post will be centered more on myself and not on H or the IL's.
Funny that you are eliminating 100% of the dating pool, I am feeling the opposite and checking out every male that crosses my path.
You asked me on another thread if I could look your situation over and on Friday I flew through some of your old threads and came up with some thoughts for you that I hoped to get a chance to post.
First I want to say your marriage counselor was horrible for telling you giving your husband an ultimatum was a horrible mistake. Your counselor should have been going after your husband for the same issue instead of wasting everyones time trying to "counsel" an active wayward. If you still have anything to do with that counselor, you should stop. Especially after what I'm going to tell you below.
I saw you post on Jpeg's thread that your husband still works with OW and since you don't snoop you have no idea if the affair continues or not.
This is unacceptable.
Step one to recovery is: "NEVER see or speak to the other person again" or "No Contact for Life".
Even if they did officially end the affair, just being in the same office and looking at each other is too much contact. Your husband can get on with committing to his marriage and rebuilding his marriage while his back up paramour remains on the scene. Either he is still giving her puppy eyes or she is still giving him puppy eyes (and maybe more in the office broom closet from time to time).
It's also completely unfair and impossible for a betrayed spouse to emotionally accept and be expected to endure their supposedly former wayward spouse still going to work daily and being even remotely in the presence of the OP.
THIS is why marriage counseling is an abysmal failure. Your counselor should have been demanding this from day one. It's like these guys think they can plant the idea from within the wayward and it's just an encroachment upon the patient/client relationship to actually tell them what to do. It's not. It's why marital coaching has far more success recovering marriages than "counselors" who are scared to give directions.
It's your prerogative to change you mind. Just like I told JPEG, when your husband moves out in January you end all contact with him only your demand also includes him quitting that job. You can't recover your marriage with a third party still in it, no matter how remotely.
I also think you've probably taking the "no snooping" thing a bit far. Betrayed spouses tend to fixate on snooping and wasting way too much emotional energy monitoring their wayward spouses after they bust them. Thus, it's a good recommendation to tell them to stop because once you know what's going on - knowing more isn't worth it. It sounds like you really don't know what's for sure going on and you've never really have. Waywards don't often tell the truth so it's FARRR easier to carefully and temporarily get the truth than not. It's a difficult balancing act but I feel that sometimes recoveries get hung up, for example, when the betrayed wife still thinks it was an emotional affair when all along it was a physical affair. The wayward husband may even try to recover the marriage all the while not admitting the truth (to save face and to protect the OW) and the LIE sits there indefinitely as a complete barrier to recovery. The point being - Don't Snoop Too Much - But snoop enough so that your on the same knowledge playing field with your "former" or "not yet former" wayward spouse.
I won't suggest how to do that since you are worried about privacy on your threat but looking at emails and text messages isn't a good source with long term affair relationships that have been somewhat busted and gone underground.
Another tip - I use different web browsers for different activities. If you search OW or do anything related to snooping or even posting here, do it in a secondary browser. You can flip between Chrome, Safari or Mozilla and then someday, never go back to that browser. If someone snoops your computer you also don't have to worry about your primary browser and the history therein - you just make sure to clear things if and only if you go into the secondary browser.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Aw man. I know OWs name too, but so far I have managed to not google it. I know it will only make me feel worse.
Pho, I check out every single man I see on the street. It's quite pathetic. I guess I want to see if there's another man out there that I could see myself with. So far the only even slightly interesting ones are married, ugh.
Thank you GB. I wish I had taken your approach early on, when the EA was first discovered. I feel like the biggest threat to our marriage is not the EA at this point though, it is his allegiance with his parents against me.
I agree with you about our MC. H claims the MC told him (I didn't hear this but they did have a private session) that this was the first time in 30 years that he did not tell a client to end his EA immediately. That his EA was "unique" and more of a "therapeutic relationship." I don't believe it for a second. I believe that H manipulated the MC and lied, which is probably why the MC had a softer view on the EA. Also was threatening suicide at the time, so that probably didn't help.
As far as snooping. I don't know how to snoop. H is leaving to work out of state in a few weeks, but could be talking to ow on the internal work IM very easily. I would have no way of knowing. If they are still seeing each other it is very underground, and limited to work hours, or to when he is traveling. Which I know sounds naive of me, but I do think that it is over. But could still be "simmering", I would lean towards that option. H leaves his laptop and phone out now, but seems to delete everything as soon as it comes in.
I have my own laptop and he has no interest in what I am searching or doing on here. He doesn't have my password. Because he never asked. I haven't snooped or googled ow's name in months. I do not want to put my energy there.
My IL's have joined H in an all out war against me, which has seemed to have settled down quite a bit. However there has been no remorse, no apology, no acknowledgement from H that this was wrong. He thinks that I have victimized his parents for all of these years. They are on board with that theory 100%. They have rehashed every argument or disagreement we have had in the past 20 years, and for months post BD H would get drunk and scream at me and rehash the argument from his parents "side." Claimed that I lied and his mother was "right about everything". I have been trying to conduct myself in a positive and loving way. I say nothing negative, I am positive, or mostly neutral as positivity is hard to come by in this situation, I do not complain, remain pleasant and polite in all interactions with them. Until September they continued to spew with H about me behind my back. In September after a particularly bad incident I took off my ring and told H that he needed to stop speaking about me with the IL's or leave. I told him it was abusive. He agreed to stop. I believe he did. But there has been no forward momentum since then. But a lot less visible anger on H's part, and he has been tentatively trying to initiate conversation more. Actually, this is when he put in for the travel job, that week. I took off my ring and told him to consider moving out, that his anger was unhealthy for me and the children and that his parents were fueling it. He put in for the job at that time, seemed to cool off quite a bit since then, but then the job came through.
So how do I proceed from here about his parents? Bottom line what I want is for him to stop all behaviors that could be further damaging the marriage- the affair, the tearing me apart with his parents and also I should add telling them EVERY thing, every thing that goes on in counseling, etc. Our marriage is not between just me and H, it also potentially still includes OW (my guess is maybe as a fantasy or background figure at this point, but she is visible to him) and definitely includes MIL and FIL. I want everyone out. How do I ask for that? How do I know if he respects these boundaries while he is gone, he could be talking to OW and the IL's all night long every night on conference calls on speaker phone while he is gone, ranting and raving about me. So how do I ask for this and how do I know if it is being respected?
If everyone is "out" of our marriage and it is between him and I, I truly believe we can repair it, and if not, then at least I know it was an honest effort. I would not limit the IL's interactions with the kids, or even with H, but I do not want to be the target for spew and I do not want my flaws- perceived or real- to be discussed and hashed out repeatedly. Whenever we see them, I feel like they "debrief" about me afterwards and then H gives me the rundown on all the ways I screwed up (had an unpleasant look on my face, comforted my son when the IL's thought it was inappropriate, etc.)
I should also say that when BD happened, MIL told me "now I can finally get the family that I deserve." A very small comment and a drop in the bucket compared to what I have heard or been confronted with since BD, but still, IMO very telling of the mindset I am up against, and H is completely on her side.
So here is the thing. Things have been slowly getting better. But very slowly and its been 10 months. I don't expect H to heal on my time table. But then, this is my life too.
Pho, Your info concerns are getting me nervous. Should I be concerned for myself? What are your fears?
Mutatio, my MIL knows no boundaries. Years ago, I was on a forum for people with in law issues. It was a good source of support for me, and anonymous like this forum. I told H about it. I was on there for years, maybe 3 years as a regular. I finally broke away because they changed their format and I decided it was time for a break. Anyway, during one of our MC sessions H brought up some things about that forum. It was obvious that he had been reading my posts- and yes, I knew he was aware of the forum but still, I felt violated- and also based on what he said he was using the information against me, pretty sure he had either shared it with the IL's at the time, or was sharing his recollection of my postings with them now. (now, as in post-BD, months ago though.) He was highly critical of my postings, accused me of lying about his mother, and so on. Also, I should add, before that forum, I was on a different one with my first name and my MIL "found" me, so I found a new forum with an "undercover" name and thought I could trust H.
I have not told H about this forum. Honestly, he has shown zero interest in my activities, I think I could practically bring a guy home and sit on his lap in front of H these days and he probably wouldn't even notice. But in the last few weeks he seems a little more interested in what I am up to. He mentioned another website the other day, asked what it was about. It was actually a job search website. I do not leave this website up if I walk away, I do not think he found it, but I am on here a lot and it is possible he has seen me on this site. Just from walking by, etc. I think its a matter of time before his curiosity kicks in, or he could ask his mom to check it out for me.
I post a lot. I could be identified easily. I don't mind being identified and "outed" if I am asking for support, or talking about my feelings, my GAL, etc, but I have said a lot of personal info about H and his parents and if he sees it I am pretty sure it will be an all out war. I thought of this months ago, but my need for support outweighed my need for discretion. Now I am thinking H is going away. He might have more time on his hands, might be working through issues, might be curious. If he reads just a few of my posts he'd figure out it was me.
I don't think you'd have to worry Mutatio. You haven't said anything that your w would hold against you. Actually, if she read your posts it might help your situation, if she could see you for the person who the rest of us see.
But my H is still unstable and his parents are very much unstable. And I have revealed a lot. I don't regret it, but it is time to start fresh.
Gmum, not only will it make you feel worse but then your computer will remember her and keep popping up her name every time you refresh your screen. She will haunt you.
Back to you: I still don't understand why your in laws have this contorted view of you - why are you their scape goat? Whenever I read your posts my jaw just drops.
Hide a voice activated digital voice recorder using velcro and stick it under the front seat of his car.
Pay cash for the device so no one can ever prove you bought it thus enable to deny you did it if it's found.
Practice with the device so you are adapt at using it and placing it but don't leave your own voice of the device in case it's ever found. No proof it was ever in your possession.
You can buy it, get a cash receipt and then, as long as it's not found by someone else, return it in 30 or 60 days whatever the return policy is.
Most people feel very secure discussing their affair and/or marital/divorce strategies in their car. It's the best place to snoop and the most predictive information and if you do it once for a couple days it's not an obsessive compulsion....unlike spying on something like a cell phone bill usage report where you sit there hitting refresh every 20 seconds for 9 hours straight.
Most likely your husband wants to cake eat and keep cake eating so I'd anticipate he is still in a relationship with OW to some extent. Maybe not...but, you need to KNOW the truth about your life...not just guess or hope. Marriage recovery is NOT rebuilt upon trust - it is rebuilt upon TRUTH (and if you don't know the truth, you get it yourself).
As far as his parents....read some Cloud and Townsend about Boundaries. It sounds like you don't have too much of an issue turning the other cheek so you can handle them is small doses but I don't think you should ever be with them alone (without your husband) and certainly shouldn't spend the night there. A man should leave his parents and cleave to his wife. So you don't HAVE TO be in any relationship with them whatsoever. They are not friends and supporters of your marriage and they are enablers of their son's behavior. If they live nearby - MOOOOOOVVVVVVEEEEEE AWAY.
I don't think you need to require your husband to never see or speak to them again. He is to respect his parents. HOWEVER, if they continue to disrespect his wife and bad mouth you he should choose you over them and cut them off but that wouldn't be your issue or your decision since you will remain out of their lives completely. Chances are you might actually create a small peace this way because like Tweety needed Sylvester and Bugs Bunny needed Yosemite Sam, his mother needs you to justify her anger and gather the forces (her husband and son) against you. Removing yourself from the relationship means they can only complain about you a little bit longer before the contrast between their continuing anger/misery to your joy and happiness become wholly apparent to every one and your husband would rather be with you than them. Sociopath's love to accuse others of being the real threat and then taking of the role of the savior. They seem to be demanding you play the role of the black sheep of the family and, if and when, you simply walk away and deny taking on that role, they will rage with anger and victimhood but you'll be far away at a safe distance. They are not entitled to a relationship with you. You matter.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
