He loves me he loves me not

[JulieH]

Jellyb, you reminded me of another incident when during a big fight before BD but after marriage counseling and a lot of discord, I converted a lot of anger simply by passionate kiss. It worked then! Only problem was we were living with my parents.

I would be afraid of rejection now though.

I do think you are on to something possibly.

[JellyB]

Julie,

Here's a weird comparison and it may not resonate or mean anything to you at all. It is a reference point for me because I was single for a really long time.

It's almost like you are a 35 year old woman, who is dating men for the sole purpose of finding man who will marry her and give her babies, and it needs to happen within her 5 year plan.

So this 35 year old woman is so set on her view of the future, that she can't actually see the man standing in front of her who just, brought her dinner, made her laugh and treated her like a lady. What she also doesn't see, is that this gorgeous man, who was a real possibility, was put off by the question of how many children he thought he wanted, or if he had ever considered an island holiday wedding. Suddenly this man who was interested and attracted is thinking in his head "OMG, I don't even know if i want a second date and she is talking marriage and children".

This 35 year old woman has no idea what she has just communicated to said date, all she is thinking in her head, I hope this works out, I'm so tired of dating, I'm so tired of feeling alone, I'm tired of being rejected, I'm so tired of making myself vulnerable to men who never follow through, I am tired of being hurt by men who reject me, I'm so DAMN tired".

I wonder if there is a little of this going on. H knows all of the expectations you have, and the hurt and the anger, and it just makes him step backwards, instead of learning in.

If the 35 year old woman had just been her sexy, gorgeous, independent flirty self and left the expectations and hard conversations at home, she may well of a gotten a second date, a third, a relationship , a proposal, a husband, a baby, a family.

But because she couldn't be in the moment, and have a little patience, couldn't connect and engage with the man right in front of her, she lost an opportunity to have what she wanted.

Julie, maybe this is too simplistic .

The other thing Julie. Being flirty and sexy, is not just about attracting H back as first step. I think, the first step is actually about you rediscovering yourself, your own gorgeously feminine power. More feeling, less thinking!

You don't need H to make you feel like sexy powerful woman. You are a sexy powerful woman. When men see you loving yourself and in your own power. My belief is that men start to question why they aren't loving you. Men also love strong vulnerable authentic women. Vulnerability, authenticity and openness create intimacy, intimacy creates connection. (Thanks PP)

I feel a Fried Green Tomatoes quote coming on "TOWAAANNNDA"!!!!!

Jellyxxx

[JksD]

Julie, like what sandi said in one of her posts, LBS can also feel ILYBIMNILWY. Especially after all the hurt and the nastiness from the WAS/WS.

It is normal to feel the way you do. But your H seems to be reaching out and like what your coach said, you could try being friends.

And like what jellyb said, you could try being a really sexy friend with no strings attached for the time being.

[J5K]

Julie, I agree, be sexy. My biggest 180 will be to have my SBXW the boys so she can raise them. I know that we will be friends after that and I plan on working on the rest of my 180s and that it ends in positive results. Remember who you were when you met H way back when. Be that person again that made him attracted to you. How did you lure him in? More of the same things that brought you together may work again, it did the first time.

[ARose]

Julie, I am taking the advice from this thread myself. I am sure I have those "expectations" and that sabotages my interactions with H.

I am planning on picking my H up at the airport in high heeled ankle boots and skinny jeans. (And a top, lol) I am learning to do makeup thanks to some links Ancaire posted and I will look great. I will let you know if it works. It will be a couple more weeks at least though.

Are you in this storm too? The snow is just starting here. Going to be stranded all weekend and I plan on watching the makeup tutorials and practicing. At the very least, if it doesn't work on H I will look better for the next guy. Just kidding !!! (sort of.)

I also feel pretty good after one glass of wine- I am a cheap date! I have a friend who keeps refilling my wine glass whenever I turn around and I was wondering why I always get so drunk at her house. I am on to her, she tops off my drinks and then gets me to spill all my secrets. By 2 glasses I am an open book.

[JulieH]

JellyB..I think you are psychic. Hopefully I will be able to discuss this more in future.

Sexy and flirty was not in the cards today. In fact my hurt feelings and resentment probably messed things up big time. This weekend there is blizzard hitting and its husbands turn with the kids. All day long I kept thinking about how I was going to miss out on spending snow time with kids. I do not like being so far away from them and unable to get to them during an event like this.

My son does not like leaving. It's a transition issue I think. Once he gets there he is ok. MIL usually gives him junk food (something I always tried to keep them away from but gave up) and then he settles in. He does want to come home to me early though. He talks about it for days. Tells me "don't let daddy take me" "don't let daddy in so he can take me" "no more sleep overs" "hold me tight so daddy can't take me". etc. just now, it was a major struggle. He was hiding under the desk and really resisting. Husband wanted me to be the one to grab him and carry him to car seat and I would not. I was emotional and teary eyed a bit as well because it was hard to see son like this and I know this would not have made it better for son.

I told son that everyone loves him. Mommy and daddy love him and we both take turns having him because we are his mommy and daddy and we both love him. I do Not say bad things about my husband in front of him ever. (He loves his father and last weekend when we went out he was asking him not to leave. )

I do not however want to be the one who physically forces him kicking and screaming out. My husband also lies and tells them that mom is going out and that is why he is taking them. I told husband recently that I don't want him to tell him lies like that.

He kept talking about all the fun they were going to have with him and grandma and I was literally sick over it. MIL taking over my role as mom is infuriating.

Anyway, I suspect husband is upset with me. He want to talk to me after he puts to bed.

What I want to say....

1. divorce is horrific on kids. When you did all your research by talking to your divorced friends and friends of divorced parents didn't they forewarn you? (He had told me a while ago, that he didn't just make this decision lightly he talked to friends who had divorced parents.)

2. You want me to implement something that I wholeheartedly disagreed with.

3. You only thought about yourself when you made this decision. Never about them and they know it.

So what do I say? I am preparing myself. Maybe will just listen and validate. I am emotional right now and this will be challenging. Maybe things like "that must have felt awful".

I won't go on defensive because I did nothing wrong.

Help please?

[ARose]

Julie, I don't think you can say those things without putting him on the defensive.

Maybe try to rephrase it to take the blame out of it. My MIL is dying to get her hands on my kids and that is a big reason why I am fighting this D so hard. But for now you can't focus on that.

1- Divorce is hard on children, do you have any ideas on how we can make this transition easier? And then listen. Maybe suggest family therapy? I found family therapy to actually be helpful for our marriage, more so than MC.
2- Skip this point, he knows you don't agree.
3- Skip this point, no good can come out of this. Maybe try "I know we both want the best for our children."

Ask his ideas, consider family counseling, listen respectfully, you do not have to agree to anything, just listen and realize that you both are concerned for the children even though it is hard to believe that H really is.

[JulieH]

His idea is for me to drive out to meet him somewhere, so he does not have to come to house and pick them up...this way I have to be the one to pack up the car and deal with a screaming child that does not want to go.

Also I look like the bad guy because I am the one "giving him a away" no?

I did not want this. I begged husband to reconsider a long time ago. Why do I have to enable and be the one to implement his decision to split up kids.

I am sorry in advance. I know how much worse this is for you guys that were left behind and only have 50% or. 30% time with your kids and I know how spoiled I sound. But to me this is a huge injustice and what he is asking is unfair.

[JellyB]

Julie,

Sounds like a tremendously hard handover. Poor little guy. He must be emotionally exhausted by the time he goes. It is likely all very anxiety inducing for him, which likely elevates his emotional responses even more so.

Julie, your mothers-mind needs you to tackle this problem with your lovely son. Not LBS-mind. If you can remember that if you get a win for you son, you get a win for Julie. If you get win for julie you may well get one for your H and M.

This is an opportunity Julie, use it as such to bring H closer. We are creating attraction and connection with H and safe handover for you son. These are the goals.

This is an opportunity to do some forward focus thinking and feeling. This is an opportunity to show H, that you can collaborate on resolving an issue together. A highly emotional issue.

Do you think you can put the very fair and reasonable assessments on the back burner.

My initial response is just simply stating a feeling. "Well that felt..........I feel really .......". What do you think?

Let H tell you what he thinks. H is likely to identify a solution. Validate if you think it is something workable....but completely acknowledge the we aspect of finding a solution, " what you said feels doable, I like where you are going, could we build in x and y, they feel like important things to consider for our son. What do you think?

Any time you can use "we" or "us". Throw it in there. If you want to express an opinion, preface it with, my preference would be this, because it would make me feel......What do you think? "

When you are finish that him for sharing his thoughts with you on the matter and appreciate his commitment to his children.

Julie, regarding your lovely boy, sounds like he needs a few things to feel ok about going to dad's. More prep time, there might need to be a transition plan for him, it might have to be incremental. Your sound needs to be support to resolve this and have some control over the process.

Maybe you could talk to him about "what are some things we can think about and do that would make going to dad's easier" .

I know some children need to transition attachment more slowly, so slowing down the process might be key. Dad might need to come in and have a cup of coffee and sit down and then a gradual exiting.

I have never been an advocate of carrying children out of houses in distress, but I am an advocate for supporting children to develop the skills to manage things they don't want to do. Life is about doing things you don't want to do.

If it does get to the point where carrying him out in an upset state is necessary, ask you son what he wants to happen, give him two options or choice. This or that will happen, and let him choose. If he cannot or won't pick one, choose the option for him and let him know in advance. " hey buddy, we know you are upset, but it is time to go with dad, in two minutes, dad or mum are going to pick you up and take you out to the car. If you would like to walk there yourself you can do that too, in fact we would love that"

Julie I know that this is really distressing, and it's not so fair. Working this through is a mum and dad effort. Neither of you should have to wear the bad guy t-shirt, particularly when your sons love each of you.

I have a heap of suggestions for supporting kids with transitions. Someone who would also be good is Grlonfr. She works with her special needs kiddies. She would have heaps of great ideas.

Hang in there lovely lady!!

Jellybxxx

[JksD]

Hi I agree with Fo.

Maybe you can let your H talk first? And go from there. Fo's ideas are great.

No point forcing the research on him. He probably knows but the research isn't going to change his mind.

You must be hurting over your son's rxn. Maybe you could remind him that when he is with daddy, he actually enjoys the time with him? Have you bought books about D or S? I bought for kid and they seemed to help her.