In a nutshell, the root of your anger is that you can only tolerate people who have your views. To you, your views are the only ones that are right and you would rather not have anything to do with the people in the world who don't view things the way you do because it makes you angry.
You said you didn't team up with your wife well because she was happy being "mediocre"? Well, mediocrity in most cases is subjective. And even though no, I never met you in person, your postings pretty much say anyone who isn't as intense as you is mediocre. Who doesn't have the same drive, views, intensity, is a lesser person than you and cannot be compatible. That closes you off to so many great people in this world. Have you ever met an individual who is as superior as you? I honestly doubt you have. I don't know how you can ever find someone like that when you call people BS when they aren't s intense s you or doesn't share all the same views.
I'd say if you are happy not bringing ANYONE in close that doesn't see the world exactly as you do, then great. But you admittedly angry.
And not to debate, you were very clear on the conditions that people should stay married in. But how come it is OK to get out for physical abuse, but not emotional abuse? Emotional abuse is a real thing. I'm not talking about not getting needs met, I'm talking about a partner who is downright destructive and say and do things that are physical, but no one should ever go through, and a child should never see. I can't begin to tell you how many people I have come across who's parents have stayed together through that and prayed their parents would divorce so they didn't have to witness it anymore. I've seen children hate the emotional abuse parent and become angry at the parent who stayed.
Ginger, I don't have much time now but I will say that anyone that has met me and knows me would say that I can understand other people's points of views, that I am very compassionate and not judgmental, and that I don't look down at anyone. I can see how you would draw those conclusions based on what I'm saying, but sometimes the police sketch doesn't look like the suspect. Those characteristics are part of a bigger person, and the other part is that after living in enough pain for long enough I have been humbled and am very sensitive to the pain of others.
I get your points about emotional abuse. As I said earlier, I am sorting through my feelings and trying to continue to see objectively. I summed it up pretty well above with my percentages...there may be children that wished their parents had been divorced, but I'd wager there are way, way, way more that wish their parents were together. All I know for sure is that I feel the give up switch is being pulled way too often, too soon, for reasons I don't believe in. Fortunately no one asks my permission to file for D, so I don't have to be the judge that decides when to make exceptions.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I think what makes you such a popular poster is that you are different and I am happy that you do not want to change to conform to hypocrisies that you observe around you. Who knows what our world would be like if there weren't people that stood up for what they believed was right. Kind of like that kid from the emperors new clothes.
I am very close to my brothers. I have one brother that reminds me of you. He is well read, brilliant, witty, and very noble and has always thought differently from others. He is honest and very eccentric. So much fun to hang out with because he brings out these really original conversations that most people would shy away from or find inappropriate or weird but has a way of making it inoffensive and funny. When we were in high school and college. (We are close in age) I was always giving him what I thought was great sisterly advise to help him with women. I would try to tell him about clothing and I remember even telling him to never Admit about his lack of experience with women (he's actually good looking just did not have that suave character that women stupidly fall for). I would point out these things that guys did to get women to fall for them. I am so happy he never listened to me. At the time I thought I was helping him, but how ridiculous was I? He was great as he was and anyone that couldn't see that, simply didn't deserve him. I was trying to teach him how to conform because I thought that would get him what he wanted.
He is practical and ended up marrying a pushy woman that is just as witty. So they have fun and kind of accept and laugh at each other's character flaws. She is not as educated as him and to his dismay is more interested in popular culture then in some of the things he is interested in, But he just laughs at it (not in a critical way) and accepts her for the qualities that keep them working as a unit.
Anyway, I think when you are ready, my only advise would be to find someone that can accept some of the flaws you describe in yourself. Why wouldn't she looks past these when you have so many wonderful attributes? Our faults also contribute to our positives no? (For ex, I am stubborn but I am also extremely loyal). If she cannot she does not deserve you.
I think you will need to to do the same for whoever your partner will be.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Good morning, Zues. I just wanted to say hello, hope you had a nice week and are looking forward to whatever weekend plans you might have. I leave you in the capable hands of these ladies who explore your inner phyche so well.
I want to thank all the posters. Those that have been kinder than I deserve, and those I have butted heads with. This forum is a special place, and there is so much good will I just can't say enough how appreciative I am for you all.
My story today involves pool, but I've been thinking about how similar it is to any journey, whether DB, personal growth, etc.
So I am starting to play pool again. My sitch is calming down. I have a little time to play. So I'm hitting some balls. I will be doing much more when I have a table in my home again come summer, but for now I will at least enjoy it when I can. There is a series of tournaments that kicked off yesterday, I am playing all of them. I am EXTREMELY out of practice, but there's only one way to change that...get moving. I don't have the same fire I used to, but I hope to offset that with experience and calmness. I went over to my friend's place Friday night to practice for the tournament yesterday.
As I thought about playing pool again, it formed an interesting picture in my mind. See, I've played pool for many years. I've been around the block. I KNOW what to expect.
-There will be times when I play good. -There will be times when I play poorly. -There will be tournaments I win. -There will be shots I choke on and lose. -There will be times when I am at one with the moment. -There will be times when I am frustrated. -There will be times it is bliss. -There will be times when it is torture.
I thought of all of this, and just kind of nodded and shrugged. But see, what I used to do, and what most players do, is they think pool is about the wins, the bliss, the being one with the moment. They think that's the point of it all. And that when that happens it's awesome, and when it doesn't happen that's a problem. Then they work really hard thinking if they work hard enough they'll get that more of the time.
But to me, it is clear this all comes with the territory. I actually visualized it like walking a trail around a mountain. I have a trail map. It shows all of those bullets above as different stops on the path. This is the path. You can't get to one part of the path without going through the others. And here's the bigger point...since you're going to walk the whole trail, you have to make a decision...are you going to be miserable 90% of the time and only enjoy your hike on those few stretches of road that are downhill and open skies? Or are you going to decide that you just like hiking, and enjoy the entire walk?
I have learned to like the whole road. I have learned that the wins are rare and short lived. The days where it comes together like magic are few and far between. But I love the game. And even when it's not fun, it's fun, because I understand the totality of the entire journey. When I started playing again on Friday night, I was signing up for the WHOLE WALK. Not just a part of it. I wanted the entire experience. I was ready for all of it!
Yesterday I competed. I drew one of the toughest players first round, he was the best in MN for 20 years. Race to 10 games. It was a nail biter. It went 8-8, then I got an unexpected shot and was able to win 10-8. There were many people watching our match and it was fun to perform for a crowd again. I really smoothed out and played a good set. I continued on winning until I reached the finals. I ended up playing my friend, the one that won the tournament 2 weeks ago. Because we're friends and go to tournaments together we split anything we win, so when we met in the finals we weren't really playing for a difference in money, but I wanted to play well for the crowd and I wanted to win the set. I did not. He played really well and beat me handily 10-4. It was a little closer than it sounded because it was 6-4 at one point and a few subtle differences could've turned it around, but he's an awesome player and deserved the win for sure.
So again, a little success, some cool moments, some shortcomings. All part of the road.
I guess my point is that when you enjoy the entire road, you can enjoy yourself more of the time, and you will be less anxious. Anxiety comes from trying to prevent the unpreventable. Competitors that try not to choke...yikes, good luck with that. Why not just laugh when you chunk a ball into the first diamond? It's funny if you're not too pissed off to laugh.
So in DB, and in life. We're all adults. We are learning what life is. Where it takes us. So let me ask...how much of your journey are you going to enjoy? Just the parts where everything is going the exact way you want it to? Or can you breath deep and find some appreciation, humor, and joy when the trail leads you through the alligator infested swamps?
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues, I have to admit, I am not enjoying the alligator infested swamps, but they are not crushing my spirit like they used to. Its a struggle but I will not lose myself. Being in tune with my children has been the biggest way for me to stay grounded and "in the moment" and all that it has to offer.
I love your posts, you give me a lot to think about, and you challenge me intellectually and morally every step of the way.
It's great to read your thought provoking posts. It's not all going to be sunshine and flowers. There is going to be storms and thistles along the way. This may be true for others but I am speaking for myself in thinking the bad or stormy times when you arent having a good time feel like failure in your path. And it's discouraging. I look to a cartoon my kids watch when I feel discouraged at my "failure". There is a line. From failure you learn, from success not so much... It's great when things are going well and it makes it all seem easy and ok. When it's not going well instead of lingering in it look at yourself and think about what you can do to learn from this. What could have you done differently to avoid the thistles. Or what can you do to get past them and walk in the flowers again.
The person that you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so make yourself as interesting as possible.
Below are exact copy/pastes from my journal from 4-5 years ago (only removed XW's name). For those that don't know, I struggled with something on the scale of an EA. I don't say it was an EA because I never actually spoke to another woman about anything inappropriate...but I FELT feelings that I know were inappropriate. My M was in the toilet, I was a new manager and big shot on campus, and I had a couple of younger women working for me. For someone like me that NEVER talks to women and struggled with boundaries, this was something I wasn't ready for. The result, I started to feel incredibly attracted to one of them. It even had me questioning my marriage. I never acted on it in any way, but tried talking to IC and my best friend to get the help I needed. Finally after about two months of being freaked out about my feelings I told my boss and XW, and offered my resignation, saying my marriage came first and I couldn't risk being in that environment anymore. After that I want to make it clear that I remained faithful and dedicated to my marriage and wrote many more pages about why leaving was never going to be an option for me.
Long post, not particularly educational or enlightening. But it's pretty raw. It definitely shows the allure of an EA, the temptation. Maybe it helps to find compassion for WAS's. Maybe it makes for interesting reading, or people can get to know me better. Maybe I reveal a lot about the person I am, either by what I wrote, or by what I'm saying these days in contrast. Not sure, just thought I'd share.
Quote:
There are certain people that make me feel alive. I feel like there is something special about them, and I form a connection. I understand their style. Just being around them feels right. I feel like they get me and appreciate me for being me. The problem is I don’t, and never really have, felt this way about my wife. I love her and she is one of the greatest people I know (way beyond just a chemical feeling, she is deep down amazing), I just never really felt magic. She loves me, but she doesn’t savor the things about me that really make me who I am. a. Is this important to a successful marriage? b. Can it be developed? c. If not, is it ok to get this feeling outside of marriage?
Personally, I feel it is important because I have longed for connection all of my life. My wife is opposite to me in many ways. Sometimes this is great, after all I am the one with the issues. She keeps me balanced. Increasingly, though, I yearn for more. Other women I have met seem to ‘get me’, not just understand me, but respect and admire the things I do.
This is really tough. I have a hard time spending a lot of time with my wife. As long as I keep really busy at work and playing pool and we have limited time together it works ok. It’s like we artificially create situations in which our interaction is lower level needs, catching up, etc. The thought of going on a road trip together, say, is scary. I’m not sure we could talk for that long. With many of my friends we could talk everyday for weeks, with my dad forever, with W it might be two minutes. If we are going to be on rocking chairs together someday, I can’t shoot pool, run a company, and my other friends are dying off, how will this play out? I guess I am freaked because I can’t see getting through the rest of my life without more.
Then again, she is amazing in so many ways. She gives me everything that she has to give. She is the best mother in the world. There are so many good things. And we have a family now. Three children. Part of me says that the world isn’t about satisfying every desire, and that at this point I have given up my ability to satisfy this particular one. If I chase after that I lose so many other things and destroy the life she built as well.
BUT, if I have to wrestle with this everyday, can I really expect to win this fight for 40 years? If I’m going to give in, wouldn’t it be better to do it sooner than later? Doesn’t she deserve someone that is a match for her? Or is this an excuse, there is no one else for her and she would never meet them anyway with three kids, I am just completely selfish?
I believe in a committed marriage. I really want to find a way to either let go of my needs, find a way to satisfy them, or some combination of these that will make it easier for me to make this work. I don’t believe there is anything out there that two committed people can’t achieve on their own. I read that after 7 years of marriage all couples feel about the same, regardless of how things were in the beginning. If that’s the case I would be foolish to take any action at this point beyond loving my wife.
Besides, I think I am pretty down in general. I have been a bit dark lately. It could just be that I feel this way because something is wrong with me. Sometimes when I interact with the women I work with I feel good. Like flirting, only genuine understanding and support. It makes me feel happy. At first I thought this meant something, now I think it is like a morphine drip that I use when I am in a lot of pain. It isn’t particularly healthy, and if I broke up my family to get with one of these women it would be disaster. The good feelings of the morphine would go away soon enough, meanwhile I would create many, many more problems in my life. I can’t see this ending well. But sometimes I am in so much pain I do things just to get through the day. I have leaned on these women a couple of times because I just felt so empty.
Having just reread this I think there is another issue equally important. Not only do I have a hard time spending time with my wife, I have a hard time spending time with my children. I love them, but I just have a hard time being interested in what they are showing me. I try to force myself to see them for a few minutes here and there, but this is no substitute for genuine enthusiastic interaction. I don’t want to damage my kids or deprive them, I just can’t get into it. So maybe this is all me, something keeping me from bonding with those available to me.
If so, can this be changed? Is this a permanent personality issue? What should I do???
Quote:
I want more from my life partner than I have ever gotten from W. I feel similar to when I used to buy books that I didn’t read. I bought books that I may not have really been interested in because it was the type of book that I wanted to be interested in. In the end I either didn’t read them or I didn’t enjoy them. I feel that W is the kind of girl that I wish I was into. But do I want to spend the rest of my life with someone that I am with simply out of a promise I made before I really knew what I really desired? So even if we fix this, get through our disconnection, and learn to better understand each others needs, will we ever have a fulfilling relationship, or is this evidence that the best we could do is cope with our dissatisfaction until all of our years have come and gone? I may just remember being more dissatisfied now because we are currently in a hard spot, but I’ll never know if I don’t stick it out. But how do you work towards a vision you don’t really believe in? Is that healthy and fair? After eight years it would be foolish not to try. I’m just trying to rush this because I am so uncomfortable I want it over with. Besides, my desire to find a more fulfilling partner may just be a fantasy that I am using to medicate myself while facing a devastating loss. But if this is a marriage of convenience I could say the same thing, that I am simply clinging to a belief that it will all work out if we both want it bad enough so that I don’t have to go through an excruciating divorce. True, I can’t be sure. But if I can’t be sure I should error on the side of keeping what I have. I am basically giving up a handicap by getting a divorce. 2nd marriages are statistically less successful, I’ll have children I don’t see, child support to pay, and baggage going into everything I do going forward. So if there is doubt I should error on the side of keeping what I have. But if there is a chance of finding a more meaningful partnership with someone else should I really commit my life to someone that doesn’t make me feel lucky? Everyone in a relationship wrestles with that. It comes down to if you want to wrestle with that with a life long loyal companion and partner of if you want to wrestle with that alone or with someone else that isn’t as loyal while being separated from the family you could have if you stuck it out. Life isn’t about getting everything that you want, that’s not even possible. It’s about being appreciative for what you have. Like the dog that drops his bone wanting the bone in the reflection in the water will I lose everything by chasing an impossible standard? Besides, I am a perfectionist, maybe no one is ever good enough for me. But at the end of the day if I am discontent enough to leave then doesn’t that mean I made the right decision? Can you ever really make a mistake? Life will go on but it may cause pain and lasting consequences that I will never heal from.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I'm never sure it is a good or a bad thing lol.