Sandi's Reflections

[Sparkls]

Curious how the whole process works when its a wayward husband as opposed to wife. Sandi has been amazing at laying it out based on her situation. I guess I'm just curious if it's different if it's a man who's strayed as opposed to a wife. Thoughts? I'm sure there's probably a post somewhere on this forum about it but I'm struggling to find it.

[daybyday]

Sandi, after my last post, me and W had a long overdue lay-it-all on the table talk. I believe with all my heart that she is WAW. We discussed past EA 8 years ago and she was remorseful and ashamed. We also agreed that we never knew enough back then to begin to work on the real troubles of our M. There is noone else and we agreed that when we separate that there will be no one else in the picture or the whole thing is moot. I am leary of someone who has lied in the past but I truly believe she has issues other that another romantic interest. She will be financing her apt but will require some help. I told her that I will be paying attention to our acct. and we agreed that this is reasonable. It will be a 6 month lease.

My question is now A. Do i help her move out? the only reason I am considering it is because she could have been a real bitch and came at me hard with D papers in hand already, or not agreed to try a separation. So even though she is WAW I am going to do that. B. How do I proceed from there interaction wise? I don't want to be her BFF and will work on myself and being a better H. Is less more even with a WAW or do I interact more? I know I have been told, "make her feel what it's like to live on her own" so unless I detach she won't feel or possibly miss anything. On the other hand, by me detaching, doesnt that just make it easier for her to learn to live without me as her H? I am glad that we are getting this process started as living together in same house and guessing the answers to my many questions was not fun. I feel that I now have my answers and although am not happy that she feels she has to leave, it will give us both some time to think. I may feel different in 6months just as she might. She has come around a bit though. When B was dropped she said there was no way that her feelings could change. Now, she's not sure. Not sure would be a normal response IMO. because, who does know the future. People can fall in love again, but not without reflection, forgiveness and real change. I hope that we can get there, but I am a dumb insecure male at this point in my journey. My life has been my family and I will need some support from this great board to smack me in the head when needed and to uplift me when I despair. Rambling a lot I know but I am just relieved. If you take the time to read and respond, bless you as I haven't remembered to break my response into smaller paragraphs for easier reading. lol

[ATPeace]

Sandi so much of what you write just screams,out at me as yes this is her ...

My W is a ww and,she has lost total respect for me you know from my threads that in her mind any issues in the marrage has been turned into meet absive my w never apologised to me it was always me apologising first.... come to think of it I do not remember a time when she ever said sorry to me for anything.

You said in your post When I think of a woman, who has no ill intent in her heart, leaving her M behind and waking away broken hearted and defeated.........I picture a woman who is in pain and/or sees no hope in things ever getting better.

This is her.

When you said But don't confuse this with a woman who has sorrowfully given up on her H ever contributing to the MR and walks away b/c she has lost all hope. She would not be "playing" him b/c she is done with him. Her H would probably have to make some life long changes before she would be convinced they were legit. If all her attraction for him had faded, he may have to work hard and long to get that back again. However, it is what is in her heart that led her to leave him that determines if she was wayward or if she is a hurting WAW.

I can see this in her

You also said I don't think most WW tell the H the true issue at hand. She will either complain about something from years earlier, or give anything the she thinks sound good enough to be a justifiable excuse to break up the M. By the time she is a WW, you could kill yourself trying to "show" her how much you care.........but it's not really the issue. The issue is her lack of respect and admiration for you as a man. That's the direction to work from and where to put your focus. Women don't respect & admire a man that does all the house cleaning, laundry, cooling, child care, etc. That is why M's fall into trouble when the man is a SAHD and the W has a career. She loses respect and admiration for him.

How do I rebuild the respect and admiration that she once had ? If I stand up to her it just rattles her even more

And finally you talk about her taking the balls and becoming the man in the marrage and THIS is what has happend in our marrage

Now she wants nothing to do has closed down on working in the marrage and has made her mind up that the marrage is over she is stubben always has been she has turned the whole marrage into doom and gloom

Sandi my W disowned her father because he was not a good enough dad he ignored the fact that the stepmum was abusing my W and she has nothing to do with him has not been in contact in over 20 years or more she also disowned her mother because she and her fathers marrage broke down her mum was cheering on her father so she has nothing to do with her for the sae length of time ....she also stopped all contact with two of her sisters many many years ago...and when my brothers law tried to talk to her she blocked him and my sister from her life ....so why am I surprised that she is now cutting me out of her life.

My daughter has seen this and she is also cutting me out of her life and she has done the same to my sister and my sisters daughter and her husband.

I like so many wanted to find a way to save our marrage turn it arround and build a new better relationship I do not want to accept that this is not going to be Posable and this makes it impossible for me to move forwards.

Internet hugs and respect to you

Ghost

[sandi2]

Before I forget to ask, do you have children, and what are the ages of everyone?

I certainly am no authority about how to deal with separations. I do believe there are different types and reasons, and the LBS needs to base his/her behavior accordingly.

I think most couples have different expectations in the separation. Usually, the LBS sees it as a means to repair the MR, whereas the WAS sees it as freedom from the bounds of M. You see this separation as buying you more time. Have the two of you discussed each one's expectations? Is she simply agreeing to a separation, rather than divorce, to help you deal with it? Have either of you discussed a limited time for the separation? Will this be a legal separation, or will the two of you work out the details yourselves?

Perhaps your W has gone a long time with unmet emotional needs. She may feel that she gave one last hard try when she ended her EA and you thought things were really good. Sometimes, IMO, men think the MR is great b/c they see the W working hard at the R.....plus, the sex is great. However, the truth of the matter is that she's giving it her all, and he's enjoying the heck out of it. But, he is not really contributing to the relationship. His needs are met but her needs are not met. He thinks she's happy b/c he sees her doing things within the MR that he sums up as her being happy. Life is good. Only, it isn't b/c if she was not the one "giving" and putting out the work, it would fall flat. Her depression gets worse. She wonders when he will start giving her what she needs, and she eventually wears down. Her emotional energy is drained. Her motivation is gone. She feels things will never get better for her as long as she stays in this M. It is like a slow death for her. She is suffocating inside a plastic bag and is scratching & clawing to get air. For her, the answer is to end the M. She thinks it is the only way she can survive. If she is ever to be happy again, then it will be apart or outside of the M. Does this seem to describe your W?

One reason she may appear happy and motivated after the bomb is b/c she feels released and is starting a new life. At this time, she probably has no intentions of reconciling, and thinks she is allowing you to ease into the idea of divorce. If your W is not wayward, then I think it is important to keep things as friendly as possible. Don't allow her to roughshod you, but try to cooperate as much as possible. Bear in mind that there may not be a R, and once she's out of the house, you may discover a hidden affair or she may go ahead and file for D. So, be wise.

Personally, I think the H should give her the space she needs right now. That means he is not contacting all through the day or evening. He doesn't drive by her place, or just show for some made up excuse. He doesn't ask her questions about where she's been, what was she doing, or who she was with. That is a huge turnoff. If she initiates contact with him, then I think he should respond in a friendly, upbeat manner. During the "kid swap", he should show her his best smile and personality. In fact, during the S, je should show her his best whenever he has the opportunity.

If I were you, I'd probably give her a few weeks before I suggested having a once-a-week family outing. If she initiates wanting it, that's even better. Remember, this is very contrary to what I would advise a man who has a wayward. I don't want to blow anyone's mind here. Give her time and space first, and slowly build up to a healthy rapport. Put romance out of your mind for quite some time, b/c I doubt she will be ready very soon. Way down the road, if she still is not seeing anyone (as she claims), and if she seems to be warming toward you, then you might suggest just the two of you going out. Please, please understand that this is a very general scope or overview. And I continue to repeat that is not for a wayward.

Although she may not be wayward, she feels she is completely done with the M. If she feels you pressuring her to see you, she will start getting colder. If you push, she will bolt and padlock the door, so be sure you do nothing to indicate you are wanting to date her. She needs to think that you are being friend-ly, co-parenting well, and cooperative. Do NOT "remind" her (I don't know why men think women need to be reminded all the time) that you still want to reconcile, that you don't want to D, that you believe the M can be saved, ask her for another chance, etc. This absolutely piles pressure on a woman, and she will push you away. The two of you have different agendas, and you cannot afford to push your onto her. Does that make sense?

If you start right away wanting to date her, etc., I think she'll shut you down.....and it could cause her to go on and file for D. So, you would need to take things very slowly. The WAW absolutely feels dead on the inside......just as she described the tree. I used to compare it to a flower that never received sunshine and water (her emotional needs) and finally withered and died. That is how she feels.

She may have agreed to not dating, but I think she eventually will. If the two of you can agree on some ground rules, that's good. I just think she may not stick to them. The ground rules should not be with the intent to controll each other. I'll bet it was your idea about the no dating. In this day & time, people pretty much conduct themselves as if they are already divorced. Anyway, don't tell her you will or won't do something.......hoping it will spur her to agree likewise.

It is key for you to GAL. I can't stress that enough.

I don't know what she meant by you being mean to her, but if you know, then you need to fix it.

[daybyday]

We have discussed expectations. We have one S13. I am 50 she is 45. We will split custody. It is a six month lease so we agreed to revisit it then. I don't doubt that at this time she is probably doing it to ease me into divorce. Details worked out ourselves. It was my idea about no dating, because we are technically still married. I know her words may be just that at the moment. All makes sense Sandi. Your description of her and WAW is right on. I understand about taking it slow, being friendly, and build a rapport. She didnt say mean to her as much as she didnt like me for many reasons. I will definitely work on my issues. I agree that she may just be placating me with separation. That's why I have to GAL. All makes great sense Sandi. Now, is there any hope? How big of a player is physical attraction in the whole situation? The only reason I ask is that 8 years ago I was overweight and had lost 60 lbs. and that seemed to help bring her back. I know that wasnt all but...So, thats again where I am. Overweight and I'm sure she isnt physically attracted to me. I realize that her issues with me go deeper than looks, but does it play a part? We talked for a long long time about stuff that was never brought up before. Grievances, some misconceptions, stuff we each need work on.

[sandi2]

Overweight and I'm sure she isnt physically attracted to me. I realize that her issues with me go deeper than looks, but does it play a part?

Physical attraction an important part. I believe the degree of importance differs with people. There is also a difference in a person losing their sense of personal pride in their appearance.....from say, a person just getting older. I have seen skinny people look pretty bad, so it's not alway about being overweight. We aren't going to look like we did when we were in our 20's, but we can look our best at whatever age we are. We have to do the best with what we have. For some, they take for granted their spouse will always be with them, and it's easy to let their appearances go. Have you kept the lost weight off, or did you gain it back?

Have you noticed a change in her appearance? Does she dress younger or more sexy than she use to dress? Has she changed her hair style (color, etc.). You said she seldom went anywhere, so I assume she doesn't go out partying and staying till the wee hours of the morning.

Has she talked about losing her youth, or wasting years, or anything along those lines? Did she ever seem restless, as if she were caged?

Has there been a great loss (parent, close friend)recently? Were there some unresolved issues from her childhood that you know about?

[daybyday]

I have put all of the weight back on and more. Had a ordeal with my both parents getting very sick and I just kind of shutdown. Let myself go. I guess maybe I have the attraction thing maybe going for me as I have lost about a third of what i need right now. When we filled out a questionnaire at MC last time, her number one thing was physical attraction for opposite sex.She dresses the same but changed hair style. Doesnt go out partying so doesnt stay out late. She did seem restless 8 years ago. She has said that I hold her back from life. I am not possessive. We both had our social lives and enjoyment that neither questioned. I am an introvert, she an extreme extrovert so there was problem. She liked to go out with other couples, I did not(stressful). She did say that she didnt want to wake up at age 60 and ask, "Is this all there is?" Not a great loss but a relative very close to us had and accidental shooting kill someone and is now in prison. Really hit her hard. Nothing comes to mind about childhood issues but I'm sure there is something there if she claims to be so co-dependent.


Edit above post, she did lose a close friend back in novemeber, yes.

[Si_07]

As a relative newcomer to this whole experience, I have been on the receiving end for the past 3 months. What amazes me most of all is how someone can get so twisted and so cruel (can't think of another word for it right now). Some of the things being said to me are one thing but have found out some of the things W is saying to her family etc.. They can twist anything, it's staggering.... I thought I had been doing well to avoid as much conflict as possible but she will still rewrite the conversations and twist anything.

I never thought this person I have been with for so long could turn out like this.

I know you say they need some sort of loss or something to hit them Sandi, and I know there are many success stories out there, but man, is it ever hard to see how that may happen...

[sandi2]

I know you say they need some sort of loss or something to hit them Sandi, and I know there are many success stories out there, but man, is it ever hard to see how that may happen...

Well, you may not ever know (unless she tells you) exactly what it is that hits her the hardest. It may be something that doesn't have anything directly to do with you. It could be an accumulation of things (loses). That's why we can't put a time clock on these matters. Everyone is an individual. I just know that as long as they get the best of both worlds, or they get their way about everything....they may not have to deal what they see as lost.

[Si_07]

I understand that I may never know, I just meant that it's hard to see anything at the moment.. I get that she is a mess and all, I have just 4 more days before she is due to move out. My W is and always has been a big talker but rarely walks the walk.. Now I'm not expecting her to not move out and as much as I will miss my kids half the time, she does need to go. She seems to have friends at work that are supporting her, many that do not know me. It's just hard being portrayed as the things she is saying...