[quote=Irish M] You are numb and I understand your feelings about maybe not loving him or not wanting to take him back. Your H is now someone else. He's a stranger , how could you want or feel for him.
The memory is what you miss and are in love with. He's somewhere on a shelf waiting for this new H to take him down and become him again.
Many bridges will be burned. He will have to rebuild them all by himself. Sure if he does the work you can cheer him on. But don't try to give him any bricks, he'll throw those over the side in the river below. [quote]
Hi Irish, thank you so much for this post, there were such a lot of truths in there!
The last few weeks I have felt exactly as you describe and my Dad says the same as you - that I am in love with a memory. It is hard to accept. I feel like I don't want him back anymore and that thought terrifies me. Also, true to MLC form, because I now feel like that he seems to be drawing back in.
Thank you for keeping checking on me despite my absence. I really do appreciate it so much. I have had a bad few weeks and needed some time away from the boards.
I've gone back and forth on whether I'd want him if he came back, too. [quote]
Hi Ciluzen, thank you so much for checking in on me, I really appreciate it! I was so glad to read your above line. It is reassuring to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. My own thoughts terrify me right now. I do not feel that I want him to come back any more and it breaks my heart for myself and our children. Typically, he seems to be warming up towards me now that I feel this way. It leaves me feeling very confused.
[quote=ciluzen] I see your changes. You are writing with a different tone. I hear the exhaustion and toll this situation is taking on you. But I think that is what makes you finally start to really see the importance of DBing, of focusing on you.
You are so right here too, I do feel totally and utterly drained by the whole situation and feel like I've just given up now.
Hi Rouky, thanks for checking on me, I really appreciate it! I'm OK but confused and sad. I needed some time away from here, it has been an interesting few weeks to say the least.
OK, so here's what has been going on with me since my last post. I hope it is normal/usual to feel the way I do now. I feel sad and confused and worried because I do not feel like I want H to come back any more. The reason this is so scary is because he seems to be trying to work his way back now that I feel this way! I guess it is true that once you have your own life they come crawling back.
Thank you all for your concerns about my Dad. He is still having tests but they still haven't found a cause for his mini stroke, which is great in one way but concerining in another, as at least if they found a cause they could perhaps do something about preventing any further attacks. He still has a couple more tests to go through.
So...I mentioned last time about the affair rumour. I have heard no more about it and haven't mentioned it to H again. He is adamant there is nothing going on and strangely (or perhaps not), since then he has started staying here after the kids go to bed (a sign he wants to get back together?).
It was my daughter's birthday during my absence from the boards. We always have a family tea party for my children's birthdays, obviously this was going to be awkward given the current situation. Weeks ago I broached the subject with my daughter, explained to her that Daddy wouldn't come if Grandma, Granddad, Aunty and Uncle and Nephew came. She said she still wanted a party with all of them and that it was OK if Daddy couldn't come too! So, that's what I planned. She ended up having to go to a dance rehearsal on the evening of her birthday so we had her tea party at lunchtime. H came round in the morning and watched her open the presents that I'd bought with no input from him. He stayed until my family were due and even helped by hoovering for me while I prepared food.
Before he left he told me I'd done an amazing job on the cake and the party and that I looked really pretty. He asked me to text him when my family had gone. He was supposed to be at work but had taken the day off unbeknown to me. It was around 7pm when we got back from her rehearsal and I text H. He came round and was drunk. I couldn't believe it. He took so long to come round after my text that the kids were about to get in bed. He was crying when he tucked our daughter into bed.
We ended up having a huge row about the fact that he had come round here drunk. He said he was upset that he hadn't his daughter blow out her candles on her birthday but my family had. I apologised that it was so difficult for him but that that is how it is when you get divorced. He hasn't done any thinking aboout these kinds of things and the events one or the other of us will end up missing out on because of divorce. I have implored him to think about these things many times but it has always fallen on deaf ears. Interesting that the first time he actually misses out on something he gets angry and upset. He shouted at me that he has left me not the kids. I didn't raise my voice once, which I was very proud of. I remained calm and validating and apologetic. I said that unfortunately, when you have young children, you can't leave their mum without leaving them too. He stormed out in the end and I sobbed myself to sleep.
The next morning he was very apologetic. My Dad sent him a text - he has stayed out of things until now but he was really not impressed with him turning up drunk! That night I just didn't care any more if I DBd or not and I gave H an ultimatum. I told him he either starts making steps to build bridges and get back together or he stops coming in the house, sees the kids a couple of times a week but has to take them out of this house. I told him I had a relationship repair book with talking exercises in it to do to try to repair things. I didn't hear from him for a couple of days and then he came round to see the kids and when he went to leave he said, "If you get that book out we will start the exercises tomorrow night if you like." I have taken that to be his non-committal way of saying he would like to try to repair things.
We have done five days of the exercises now and he is staying to sit with me every night after the kids go to bed until it is time to go to bed, then he leaves. He has also started doing things like touching me on the shoulder when he talks to me. He didn't ask to be involved in Easter and I didn't ask him. He was on a night shift and was in bed all day anyway. He didn't make any effort to see my daughter in her dance competition and it was her first one. That made me sad as he has taken several days off here and there since he's left us, for absolutely no reason whatsoever, yet he doesn't take the day off to support his daughter.
So, that's where I am at now. We are doing these relationship repair exercises but it feels that H is very half-hearted in it. His responses are always vague and it is clear that he cannot bear to shoulder any blame for anything. He does seem to be warming up in other ways though with the staying after the kids are in bed etc. I fear it is all too little too late. I don't look at him and feel any spark - he is not the man I was in love with - I don't know if it is another sign of MLC but his dress sense seems to have taken a nose dive. He looks awful and smells of moth balls all the time from his Dad's wardrobe. Then I feel shallow for thinking like that. I feel sad that I might not want him back and he's going to turn round and say he wants to come back. What do I do then? It is what I dreamed of for weeks and now I feel like the kids and I are enjoying our lives without him. The house is certainly so much more organised and less stressed without him. I actually feel quite content and proud to be doing it all on my own. I wonder if it is normal to feel this way? It is almost 5 months since he left.
Are you getting any benefit from the exercises? Is there an alternative that could more suit H? Maybe he would be more active if he found another method that suited him.
Regardless it is positive that he is doing them.
I imagine your own feelings are normal enough. Take your time to decide. Let H use that gift of time to become someone worthy of being taken back! The roles have reversed. You have the power.Keep strong.
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
I agree with Roiste that is a positive him doing the test. You have shown great courage and resilience in your situation.
You are feeling content because your life carries on as you still need to get up and deal with kids. I think that you have accepted that it's life now and that you'll carry on doing what you are doing regardless of what happens.
Last week was my year anniversary and I have accepted now that it's over. I think I'm with the proverb that says it's a little too late. I can see glimpse of hope in your situation, so take each day as it comes and look after yourself.
I'm not a fan of getting fed up with DBing and issuing an ultimatum. And I don't like how preoccupied you are on how you feel.
Giving up on the DB method because you're tired of doing it doesn't make sense to me. You can give up on being attached. You can give up on worrying about his reactions to your behavior. But to act in ways that hurt your chances of saving the M...well, if things didn't work out it would be hard for me to look back and feel good about how I handled things. When you have regrets in 2, 5, 10, and 20 years, you'd always wonder what would have happened if you hadn't have acted on your impatience and exasperation.
Roiste made the comment that the power has shifted, and I'm sure that's an appealing idea after feeling powerless for so long. I don't think that's the case, or the right approach. You've already mentioned he's not being as committal as you wanted, and that was after your ultimatum, so obviously it didn't get you exactly what you wanted anyway.
My fear for you is that it will play out poorly. You will be emotionally disengaged, resentful of the pain he caused, distrustful, and wanting to see more and more from him to show he knows how much he hurt you and prove it won't happen again, and looking more for him to do things to restore your feelings. He in turn is actually VERY conflicted and will look at your dissatisfaction with his efforts and your hurt and resentment and distancing and caution as a sign that he can't win with you, and he will look at these exercises as proof he tried EVERYTHING he could, and that when he gives up and walks away from this he won't look back.
Doesn't have to play out that way, but it could very easily.
So my advice would be to DB whether you feel like it or not, period. To commit to standing by your M whether you feel like it or not. To back burner your feelings and trust that if you save your M they will come back. And to avoid trying to use your indignant attitude as a substitute for detachment in an effort to control his behavior by trying to turn the tables.
Since he is openminded and willing to do these exercises what I'd recommend is getting professional help. Validate him on what he's doing, and the concerns he might have, then say that since he's open to the discussion you'd like to get someone to help guide you through. I'm not saying you can't fix this on your own, but I don't like that you're dictating the way in which you reconnect instead of doing it collaboratively, and I think a professional would give you an honest chance. One you'll be grateful you took years from now.
So I'd make one big push for retrouville and a DB coach together, don't allow yourself to think of a score card or what you've been through to convince yourself he's 'playing on your terms', and commit to a productive action plan without regards to the mood of the day.
All said, I wish you the best and the strength to get through whatever lies ahead.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I'm not a fan of getting fed up with DBing and issuing an ultimatum. And I don't like how preoccupied you are on how you feel.
Giving up on the DB method because you're tired of doing it doesn't make sense to me. You can give up on being attached. You can give up on worrying about his reactions to your behavior. But to act in ways that hurt your chances of saving the M...well, if things didn't work out it would be hard for me to look back and feel good about how I handled things. When you have regrets in 2, 5, 10, and 20 years, you'd always wonder what would have happened if you hadn't have acted on your impatience and exasperation.
Hi Zues, thank you for your, as always, insightful post, I really appreciate it. I didn't say I'd given up on DB though, just that I didn't care if I DBd or not on that particular night, after he had shown up drunk in front of our children. I am still DBing. Maybe I shouldn't have issued an ultimatum, but I did and I can't take it back now. I don't feel it has backfired however. I cannot continue to live a life in limbo where H comes round every single day to sit with the kids for hours on end while I melt into the background and make myself scarce each time. It was no good for my sanity and I take DBing to be saving yourself whilst also keeping the door open to fix the M. Letting him walk in and out of the house at will was not saving myself.
Originally Posted By: Zues126
Roiste made the comment that the power has shifted, and I'm sure that's an appealing idea after feeling powerless for so long. I don't think that's the case, or the right approach. You've already mentioned he's not being as committal as you wanted, and that was after your ultimatum, so obviously it didn't get you exactly what you wanted anyway.
I agree with you, I don't think the power has shifted either. My H is willingly doing the reconciliation exercises so I think the ultimatum did work. What I meant by non-committal is that he didn't say, "I want us to get back together so let's do the exercises." He is talking openly during the exercises and also staying after the children are in bed to sit and talk in general. All of which I think are good signs.
Originally Posted By: Zues126
My fear for you is that it will play out poorly. You will be emotionally disengaged, resentful of the pain he caused, distrustful, and wanting to see more and more from him to show he knows how much he hurt you and prove it won't happen again, and looking more for him to do things to restore your feelings. He in turn is actually VERY conflicted and will look at your dissatisfaction with his efforts and your hurt and resentment and distancing and caution as a sign that he can't win with you, and he will look at these exercises as proof he tried EVERYTHING he could, and that when he gives up and walks away from this he won't look back.
I have the same fears Zues! I know exactly what you mean and I do think in the back of my mind that he is only doing the exercises so that he can walk away guilt free and say that he tried everything. I might be wrong though. He has said that he wants to leave no stone unturned - that is why he's doing the exercises. He has also said that it is nice that we are able to sit and talk without arguing. I don't know. I guess only time will tell.
Originally Posted By: Zues126
So my advice would be to DB whether you feel like it or not, period. To commit to standing by your M whether you feel like it or not. To back burner your feelings and trust that if you save your M they will come back. And to avoid trying to use your indignant attitude as a substitute for detachment in an effort to control his behavior by trying to turn the tables.
As I said, I am still DBing, I just didn't that particular night. I don't feel that I am indignant and my ultimatum didn't come out of indignancy either. I don't agree with parents being drunk in front of their children and felt the need to say that enough is enough. A little tipsy at an occasion where drink is on offer, like a wedding or new year, maybe, but totally drunk, no.
Originally Posted By: Zues126
Since he is openminded and willing to do these exercises what I'd recommend is getting professional help. Validate him on what he's doing, and the concerns he might have, then say that since he's open to the discussion you'd like to get someone to help guide you through. I'm not saying you can't fix this on your own, but I don't like that you're dictating the way in which you reconnect instead of doing it collaboratively, and I think a professional would give you an honest chance. One you'll be grateful you took years from now.
My H won't see a professional. He thinks they're a load of rubbish, sadly. We saw one years ago when I discovered all the letters etc from his 2nd EA with the same OW and he thought it a waste of time and money. Wouldn't he see it as me controlling things? At the moment he feels he is controlling this as he made the call to begin the exercises, I only told him of their existence!
I truly hope you will post again Zues, I value your posts so much, they are always thoughtful and helpful.
IP regarding MC, when you did it maybe your H was still in love with OW, so it wouldn't have been worth anything or maybe he doesn't want to be told that he has a problem. I went to MC with STBXH but he was with OW so had no intention to deal with his own issues! At the beginning of our separation he started to see IC but it only lasted 2 months. You can make your H go it has to come from him.
Look after yourself and your kids is all the best you can do at the moment. Thinking of you my friend :-)
