Yes, I get what you're saying, Cadet. I've been thinking more along the lines of invasion of the body snatchers. : )
Yes, I certainly need to let him go. That is still a difficult work in progress -more work than progress, thus far.
Thank you for the reminder, Cadet.
H: 44, Me: 45 Married: 20 y Together: 25 y no kids Walk away: 12/15 Asked for temp separation 12/25/15 PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had) H filed for D 5/16
I do have a question for you. You mentioned that you were headed for a D during the year your H was gone, but did either of you ever actually initiate the process? Did you talk to lawyers? Were they able to give you any advice? How did you feel like you were able to protect yourself from the possibility of financial catastrophe? My H has been engaging in some very risky behavior. I worry that he is a liability to me if he were to go out and get himself into trouble. He's a very smart person, but he has done some incredibly stupid things.
[color:#3366FF]I spoke to a L a couple times for advise, but did not retain anyone. I live in a no fault state, so that was a major factor. Also, I soon realized that it did not benefit me in anyway to file. Actually, it would have hurt me financially to make a move. But my sitch may be very diff than yours--not fault state, we have kids, I was living in our home, etc.
He did some very stupid things too. Lucky for me, he did not mess up our finances. He was also scared, and guilt-ridden, so he was usually careful. He said clearly he was done and wanted D, but that he wanted to go to mediation. He said all sorts of things, but really what he wanted was to run from our complicated life and find comfort in the last person that thought he was wonderful.
He didn't take action though. I guess that is why they say to believe none of what they say and half of what they do! I later found a law book and several pages of empty legal documents--not one was ever filled out.
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
"My H didn't open up about his needs and feelings, was a people pleaser, and always wanted to be the nice guy. So I had no idea how unhappy he was! So now that he has burned me, he has to walk the fine line of learning to take care of his own needs and stand up to me, while simultaneously repairing the damage and earning my trust."
[color:#CC66CC]My H is still trying to please everyone; feels responsible for making everyone happy. One reason he left me was because he felt he made me miserable and that I didn't like him. But I had (ignorantly) wrapped much of my life around him to show him I loved him. I was incredibly co-dependent.
He BD in August, moved out in October, and filed in January. I have finally gotten to the point that I can show him (almost sincerely) that I am moving on and ok; even cheerful. We see each other often while working on preparing the house for sale. Now he is calling me and talking more (I've learned to validate and encourage him to share his thoughts and feelings) and asking me if I'm "still doing a, b, or c (180's, changes or new interests or activities I started since he left). Almost as if he thought I was just doing things for him and not for me. But I am doing them for me. It has made me feel better after he caused me to feel such devastation.
It really is so nice to hear your story and what you have learned from your experience. The piecing process and overcoming the damage done before seems very rough. If I have the opportunity to get to that point, I wonder how H's treatment of me, and mine of him, will affect us? [color]
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Ciluzen, you sound like you are doing great! I am so glad that you are feeling like you are moving on and will be ok. And you will be, with him or without him. They do us a favor if they never come back because we (our strong, confident self, remember her?) does not need or want a man that can treat us this way!
What I like about this site is we can read threads of people at different stages and find some hope in each other. Phoebe, you say you have no hope, but do you see that Cil is several months ahead of you and is starting to feel better? We all have a different path, but that path only moves forward. On that path we cannot control H, but we CAN control how much we allow others to hurt us and bring us down.
Keep breathing, keep moving, keep grieving, and it will only get easier in time. And while I have come out on the other side, I still need to continue to move forward and find strength in myself. H cannot do that and I never should have expected him to.
Codependent no more, Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I am now trying hard not to be the one that walks away...
Boy oh boy - its amazing how this all follows a pattern.
Last night we went out to dinner with some friends. My W was dressed to the hilt. Everyone commented how beautiful she was. And she truly was.
And yet I looked at her as damaged goods and wondered what I even see in her now. And silently wondered....could I do better?
Me: 52 Her: 48 2D 26 & 16 M: 25 years (together 30) EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016 Admitted SOME physical but no IC. We know that's a lie. Status - tryin to R
I can't pretend to understand your sitch entirely because I do think there are fundamental differences for why women in hetero Rs stray versus men. It seems like W build up loneliness and resentment over a long time--they try and tell H, but H doesn't get it--and then turn to a new R, while H is oblivious and it's often too late. I hate to gender stereo-type, but I have seen a lot of that here.
In the case of my H, he never shared his feelings of unhappiness with me and just wanted to "be the good H and dad," all the while building up resentment towards me because he didn't ever stand up to me or create his own life for himself. So, he buried his feelings and need, and then OW was right their pursing him and rescuing him. So, he ran, and then justified it by blaming me.
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Probably should've quoted this in my other post as well.
Again, couldn't be more textbook. In therapy, W had said there was a distance and she tried many times to rekindle the closeness we once had, and how I just blatently ignored her. I I just didn't see the signs. Then the OM came in and worked her over the span of a few months. It was slow. I can tell the pattern, she resisted at first, tried to get close to me, but when that didn't happen, she became the cake eater. Enjoying sex with me while having her emotional needs met by him. Then over time it got physical with him, then the guilt, then the breaking up over the guilt, then the reconnection with him when things didn't connect with us.
Oh, how I hated that blame shifting. It tore my heart out when we first went into therapy and she started justifying the A. Over time, though, she would start saying, "I KNOW what I did was the wrong choice..." then start the blame shifting, lol. She was a grade A people pleaser as well. She gives so much of her time to others, that sometimes our family got put on the back burner. This is when she started being the people pleaser to the OM, making him birthday cakes, showering him with texts (when I pulled the phone records, the ratio was like 5:1 her texting him. The less he responded, the more she texted. When he didn't answer, she'd send pics to get his attention).
A good source of help here has been TxHubby. He's really helped me realize that the person you're married to isn't that same person during the A. I know my W is a completely different woman now and is showing remorse, giving me attention the OM would've gotten, and doing everything she can to salvage the marriage. We get along better these last 4-5 weeks than we did the last 2 years. The mental movies are torture, though. Did this ever happen before? Was there others in the past that she hasn't told me about? Was my whole marriage a sham? So much doubt has been cast in your mind...that you wonder if reconciling is worth it.
Me: 52 Her: 48 2D 26 & 16 M: 25 years (together 30) EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016 Admitted SOME physical but no IC. We know that's a lie. Status - tryin to R
Your insights from the other side of this mountain are valuable blu thank you for posting them.
My observation is that DB has to become a second skin, GAL and extreme self care becoming automatic.
Those who repair themselves have the most rewarding lives. Those who take the process with authenticity have the greatest rewards.
By doing DB and that which works for us, we repair, we outgrow our M and require a new one even with the same partners.
By taking care of our needs we become those who are strong enough.
There is a sense in which the end goal is seen as R, even new R with our spouse. I am unsure that's the complete story, they may no longer be worthy of us without working on themselves. We may accept them as they are if we so choose, that is our right, flawed in all ways that humans can be flawed. Detachment and self care are prime requirements in my experience. We can just let them be and travel at their own pace if we wish or decide to move on with our lives. We know detachment is different to being unattached. We know that moving forward is different to moving on. We know that letting go is different from letting out. We know that standing is different from codependency. That GAL is part of the PMA and not merely a distraction.
By DB we grow, we adapt, we shift, we connect with our higher power and create a new environment and level of health. Some of us address FOO, career changes, learn new skills, get healthy, and learn to deeply care and live ourselves. I have seen men and women become supremely successful as parents connecting with the precious children in their lives.
DB is about becoming self centred, and taking myriads of view points, receiving 2x4s and giving them. To post to others and know we can misread their sitch, but still offer the support that we have been given.
Above all it is becoming detached from the outcome.
Even in piecing being detached from maintenence of the fragile R. I do not read that detachment in your posts.
An A of any kind is a symptom of dissatisfaction with oneself, truly most A are about how the wayward feels about themselves whilst in the A and not about love or A partner. The wayward loves how the A makes them feel and they are selfish until the A too inevitably goes from the limmerance phase. Limmerance usually only lasts for 1 to 2 years then new stages in R develop, that requires maturity. To maintain the feeling the wayward or the AP may move on to a new A, perhaps even a better quality one. Alternately they may wake up and know that the fault lies in their stars. Most A partners are affair down and anyone who will have an A isn't necessarily a quality individual for life long partnership. In time remorse and in time contempt for the A partner may arise, will the A partner move on to another A? If they will have an A with you then they have the capacity to also cheat on you, there is always uncertainty in it, so the wayward always knows this deep down. My little sis xWH had an A with a woman who is actually no better than a tramp, he brought this tramp to his daughters wedding reception and introduced her as his fiance. He broke his marriage for this awful woman, who stood sulking, over made up but dressed as if she had just come in from gardening in dirty jeans. They neither touched nor talked the whole time, my sense was this was a brave faced show. Tacky tacky and so visible to all. (My little sis has moved on and is remarried).
Your once WH may see this in his OW. A partners often don't stand close scrutiny in the full light of day and in ordinary domesticity the pall of a secret A is visible. The wayward will rarely return to a tramp or scuzzy once the glow is gone. -----------------------------
Your RH (reformed husband) may not be worthy of you, you may need to move on. Your love for yourself, your children and your new life being greater than your need to R with RH.
That's ok, to detatch from whether the piecing process will work. It's ok to have doubts, it's ok to say this isn't for me, no matter how much you atone I hold you accountable and I lack trust in you. You can still R knowing this, it is your choice.
To make another earn your trust and forgiveness is to punish them, to create hurdles that they may never rise above. Let go of the need to trust and forgive. Just let it be. If another says they need that from you to be in an R with you, then they place their burden on to you. They still have work to do, that is their burden to shoulder not yours. Yours is to work on you.
My view on forgiveness is also very different, as I see this you do not have to forgive. Somethings are unforgiveable, and forcing forgiveness because society says it will heal you is destructive to you. It is the other who seeks forgiveness for themselves as a way of letting themselves off the hook. Too easy and in essence atonement, true atonement is needed before the wayward can forgive themselves. You forgiving them is no substitute for self love, forgiveness and self trust that they need for themselves.
You can R without romantic love, forgiveness or trust, although that's unlikely to work unless there is friendship and from that friendship connection. We can have sex with friendship and build some connection through sexual healing. In this we have to be at minimum attracted to the one who cheated and they to us. That is where DB is important to become someone only a fool would leave in their attraction to us. We ask ourselves are we truly attracted to the wayward, if all we want is to win over an A partner or to punish then there is more work to do. In this we can be ready to say I am not attracted to you at this moment, it is your choice to stay knowing that. I may never reach that point with you or I may do so and this is the consequence of you having an A. I will let you know about this uncertainty when I am clear. It is also your choice to keep this as your circus your monkeys.
At any point be prepared to move on.
Offering basic friendship form a loving heart is enough in my book, and is more than that in it leaves the door unlocked. To validate and learn to communicate is core to DB. I would also add that DB is a way of life for me now in all my Rs, both Rs which long lasting and very short term. Until I am D I will not date so the R I refer to are every day R, my family, friends coworkers and even the server in the coffee shop. I DB my little socks off, failing often!
The irony is that the more we struggle with romantic love, forgiveness and trust the less likely it is to be. Some may see that in my sitch there has been so much abuse that my self preservation will say no R. And I observe that in my sitch and those who have experienced abuse walking is more effective as a strategy than standing. I have one big advantage in this process an extra layer called twelve steps, this is because my wayward was a cross addicted abuser.As a result I come into contact with those who manage Rs with addicts and cross addiction consequences, thone who are successful manage their R through detachment. They have come to terms with the fact they do not have to forgive or trust if they do not want to do that. An A is an addiction requiring a process not unlike twelve steps for both the cheater and the betrayed. Both have work to do on themselves, the DBer has an enormous advantage, they have grieved and grown.
Be authentic to yourself, detach from the piecing outcome and continue to put your own needs to the fore. Your RH has a long journey to make and starts on the back position whereas you are in pole. Keep your racing engines moving forwards.
Keep healing and trust to the process. Let go of your need for RH to hold up his end, he may or he may not. Not your circus and not your monkeys.
This DB process is about growing up, learning skills and maturity. It is for life.
That is the way I see this.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Great post V - and Bluwave, I'm really pleased to see you posting in newcomers - you provide some useful insight for us all and I hope you'll gain support too from those who have successfully reconciled and still post.
Can I ask - was yours purely (and I don't say that lightly) an infidelity situation, or was your H going through MLC? Only asking out of interest and because my H seems to be in MLC...
I've seen others post about the Dear Peggy website for healing and also people seem to find the His needs her needs book helpful - affair proofing your M. Also, have you considered retrouvaille at all? Some vets seem to rate it and it seems to happen in various countries. I thought it was just the US, but it's the UK too.
It sounds like you are doing pretty well, given all circumstances and I do feel the aspect of focusing on you first and the R second is a good way to live your life.
Do keep posting and have a good weekend xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
