Jim, I do think that some Ms could be saved with a cool down period and counseling, and I'd be on board with that. But that could be done in no fault states as well as others.
In my case, we lived together 7 months after BD, and were S a year before we filed. We did M counseling together and both did IC. There was no saving it. But I do know that I tried my best and I am grateful for the time to say that I did. I wasn't forced into a quick D, and there's a lot to be said for that. My IC doesn't understand why I still say I'd save my M if I could, she knows I'm happier now. She doesn't get that I'd still throw personal happiness out the window in order to preserve my family. That's the aspect I believe no law can ever get close to.
My IC doesn't understand why I still say I'd save my M if I could, she knows I'm happier now. She doesn't get that I'd still throw personal happiness out the window in order to preserve my family. That's the aspect I believe no law can ever get close to.
Sunny,
I agree with you. I would go back to saving the M also. No law can ever regulate the choice of a person.
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
I'm following this thread and pondering the connection to my M.
I think my M could have been saved with MC and IC. W refused to go. W refused to go to an IC her whole life and deal with her issues.
W refused to admit any fault, to make any changes in better communication. It drove me to try to force her to see her faults. Which was then my fault to try to force it. If she at any time showed any interest or ability for healthy communication, I backed off. But it was seldom and never lasted more than a few hours. I now believe she never did agree with anything, she just said she did. She thought she could do anything she wanted, we didn't need to compromise. Throw in an ugly childhood/past with abusive/abandoning parents on her side, no amount of laws would have fixed it. After BD she finally seeks out an IC.. a one sided ignorant IC (I believe anyway), feeding her victim mentality, it gets worse again.
Sunny, a no-fault law says to married people that there's nothing wrong with being unfaithful, because there's no punishment for it. That's a problem, in my mind. An at-fault state penalizes the person who has an affair or otherwise misbehaves toward their partner. I think that's the way it should be, and I know that's what made my H at least think twice about separating.
Painter, this goes back to legislating morals. My incentive for being faithful to my H was never legal punishment.
I don't believe for a second that Mr P would have been faithful had we not lived in a no fault state. That wasn't on his radar screen at the time.
But we *do* legislate morals. It's criminal to steal because it's immoral, it tears at the fabric of society if nobody respects property. Having sex with your children is immoral and therefore illegal. All law is based on moral. How does something become a crime unless it's first immoral? Many, many countries have laws against adultery. In the state H and I lived it, adultery is a misdemeanor.
You can't know for sure that your H wouldn't have been unfaithful if it was illegal. A large majority of cheaters have friends who condone the cheating. Social condemndation or approval influences us greatly.
The point of having it at-fault is so someone can't cheat on you, hurt you, tear your family apart and then get awarded spousal support and have you put out of your home. The at-fault divorce secures someone like me, who didn't have children with H but took care of his children and elderly mother, who didn't buy the home together but lived in it and was on the deed for 15 years and put money into it. I could have put H out of the home if I had gone to court and filed at-fault.
In a no-fault divorce, H would probably not have had to pay alimony and I would quite likely not have had rights to the home.
If I had cheated on him, he would in an at-fault D for certain not have had to pay alimony and the financial settlement would be skewed in his favor. It makes a difference.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Zues, just wanted to mention that Fangorn Forest was one of my favorite places in Middle Earth. It's interesting that you chose to be lost in a place that stands for lasting values. Was that on purpose?
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Zeus, I am not caught up on your sitch at all, but I just saw your new thread title and had to stop by to tell you that I LOVE it!
H: 44, Me: 45 Married: 20 y Together: 25 y no kids Walk away: 12/15 Asked for temp separation 12/25/15 PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had) H filed for D 5/16
Haha, thanks guys. I think it's because this is one of my favorite exchanges (for those that don't know Treebeard is an Ent, a creature like a living tree):
'But now I am going to stand up and take a little sleep. Where will you stand?'
'We usually lie down to sleep,' said Merry. 'We shall be all right where we are.'
'Lie down to sleep!' said Treebeard. 'Why of course you do! ... Well, you can lie on the bed. I am going to stand in the rain. Good night!'
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
It's interesting that you chose to be lost in a place that stands for lasting values. Was that on purpose?