What Should I be doing 3

[Coconut]

So a day later, WW still hasn't come to me to ask OM if he will change fire stations...

Last night I was in bed when W came home, I asked her to come lay with her head on my shoulder so we could just chat, it's been a LONG time since we just chatted, something we did when we first started dating... We talked about experiences when we where younger, things we have done in our lives before M, no pressure, no R or M talk.. My W teared up a few times, it was very nice to just talk as friends, probably not the best idea, but I needed a night were I could let go of all the stress and just talk to the woman I've known for so long.. Wrong or not, it felt good..

Wonka, I'm gonna need that come to Jesus talk soon, WW hasn't asked OM to change stations, she's not given any indication that she is going to withdraw from academy, she hasn't even deleted him as a Facebook friend (all the firefighters are friends on FB), so I don't really see anyway for me to continue living there without accepting an open M, which I'm not willing to do... Although I do believe that she has ceased contact for now, I also believe it could just be a pause until I start trying to trust her again...

Sandi, any thoughts?

[cbtdad]

Coconut,
She is doing some serious cake eating.
She is getting the attention from you without having to let go of her fantasy.
She has probably taken a step back, but the OM fantasy is still right there plain as day.
As long as she thinks you will be there she will most certainly test the waters with both you and OM
You have to set that boundary and mean it.
Meaning you need to tell her you will not be in a 3 person marriage.
That she either quits the academy or OM does. But no contact means no contact.
If she isn't willing to do that then you move out or she moves out.
But you must follow through or she will walk all over you
I've been there!!
I'm there in a way now. I haven't set boundary yet because I'm not ready to follow through right now.
We have a six year old and he graduates next week from K
After that if I don't see more improvement I'm moving out

[Coconut]

CBT, I hear what you are saying, and I am listening... It's hard because she is so much more like her old self, it really feels like she is working her way back, but she still hasn't shown remorse, still very tight lipped and only answers questions, so I know better, this why I'm prepared to move forward without her, I just really want to hear what Wonka wanted to say...


Sandi, OMG, I went back and read your Sitch, at least the first 10 days, and it was eye opening to read your perspective.. I just wonder, your involvement was so much deeper than my WW (I'm starting to believe it was only 3 weeks long, although there was kissing) is it possible for her to come back without total NC? Other than short breaks during classes, and short responses to fire station for calls, she hasn't been away from the house, and there definitely hasn't been any contact by electronic communication (I've verified and reverified).

I'm not wavering on my stance of not being in a 3 way R, just wondering if it's possible for her not to be in one, being that there is only limited contact...

Also, would it be a bad idea to buy her the book "Every Woman's Battle" and just put it on her nightstand?

[Coconut]

Wow, what the hell am I doing, I am all over the road... WW had at least some physical contact and I'm downplaying it as not that serious... Funny thing is I'm not emotional anymore, but I'm still irrational as ever.. I feel strong and able to walk away, but it seems like I'm trying to talk myself out of it based on hopes and wishes...

It's amazing what the mind and love is able to do to me...

[sandi2]

Yes, you absolutely are downplaying what your W has done. You have made excuses for her and you are desperately trying to find a loophole b/c you don't really seeing her giving up the firefighting.

As much as I really want to tell you that this can be an exception and maybe your W could see the OM and still overcome her addiction.........I just can't, and be truthful. She is telling you she has no feelings for OM. Those type of feelings are not turned on and off like a light switch. It would be like a heroin addict putting down the needle and announcing he no longer needed a fix. Oh yeah?

Sure, you can understand how it works with a drug addiction, can't you? Your problem is believing your W's affair could be addictive. It must be terribly difficult for a man to even think about his W having to go through "withdrawals" b/c she's not had recent sight or sound (even picture on FB) of OM.

I know it's tough on you. Know how I know it? B/c you chunked everything aside to have a chance to cuddle with your W and talk about old times. You told us you didn't care if it was the right or wrong thing to do b/c YOU NEEDED IT. Yes, and you fed that need. You gave into it. Right then, you didn't care what advice you may get....right? So can you see how it would be for your W wanting OM? They want to feed their needs, too. Kind of hard to hear it said that way, isn't it? I am trying to give you some idea of what an affair addiction can be like. You can't give it leeway. You can't temp it.

((Coconut)), she may believe she can beat it, and still have contact with OM. She may try to convince you it's over. Frankly, I think she'll tell you nearly anything, to continue her classes and firefighting. She has put herself in this mess. She will probably face a double whammy, unless OM leaves.

And btw, she is not putting effort into anything. That is more you wanting to believe that she is.

[Coconut]

OH Lordy, that was rough.... Sandi, I put my full faith in your words, and it seemed to work out for now...

So while at work I asked WW if she was planning on going to go to couples counseling on Friday, or if I should cancel it. She asked why I wanted to cancel, and I replied nevermind, I don't, I want to talk to the counselor about moving out in 1 1/2 weeks, so I was just wondering if she would be going. She said with surprise, you're moving out in 1 1/2 weeks?? Why?? I just said really?? She then said i want to talk to you about some feelings I have, but let's wait till home, I replied ok.

So at home she says that she's confused about me moving out, and that she thought we agreed that we would ask OM if he could go to another station. I said I agreed to stay if there was NC, but he's still a friend on Facebook, he still works at your station, he's still in the station group-me group, you may not be talking to him, but he's still very much in your life, thus in our M.

She then went into how she sometimes feels like I'm all over the road, that sometimes I act like everything is normal and sometimes I seem angry, I said no since in living stressed, so I choose to be happy, and that other times I am just letting her know what I can accept in our M.

She then says I haven't given her the things she has asked for, I got sucked in and we disagreed about what she's asked for / done vs. what I've asked for / done. At one point she said she's been honest with me, ha... Anyway, we argued (I know I handled it wrong) and then she started getting loud and I said we should continue talking when we calm down.

Eventually we finished, some things that came up:
- she said I'm not the kind of guy she is usually attracted to, but she fell for me because of who I am, but when I disengaged (2 years ago) she lost her attraction for me, I said that I understand woman need an emotional connection to be attracted. (Keep in mind she was ecstatic 3 months ago when we last made love, was very passionate)
- she said that she's told me over and over what she wants, go out and have fun together, let things build naturally, and I haven't done any of that. I reminded her that I tried to plan things but she kept cancelling because of the academy, and I've done everything she's planned (which was two family dinners).
- she still showed no remorse, she definitely distorted facts, and still blames me for the A.

Anyways, you get the idea, she basically blamed me for everything, eventually I managed to stop trying to defend myself and just validated, but when she was done, I said, well you know where I stand, it's no contact or I'm moving forward with separation and D process. I said I'm gonna contact mom tonight and see if there's an option for me to stay there for awhile, and if not I'll find a room to rent, and walked away.

At this point I thought I was out of the house (sry Wonka), I started putting together a net worth spreadsheet and breakdown of monthly home expenses vs. her income to show that she can't afford to keep house (she's convinced she can). About ten minutes later she came over and said do you want me to draft the message, or are you leaving.. I told her I want no contact, so yes, draft the letter. Then she had to go to a fire meeting, so we will send the message in a couple of hours..

[Wonka]

Coconut,

Sorry for the delay in responding. Things have been stir crazy the last few days and I am barely catching my breath.

I have caught up a bit here and Sandi's recent post is FREAKING spot on. Your W is doing what we call "truth trickling" which means that WAS only parses out the PG-5 rated version to the LBS. "Oh, it was just only kissing" when in actually they had hot, torrid sex hither yonder! And now your W just left for the firehouse meeting. This tells me that she's racing to the OM to get their stories straight and plot on some of the ways to push their A further into the underground.

There was a mixture of some good DBing and some really bad DBing. The bad part? You just let W go to the firehouse without really putting your foot down. If I were you, I would have simply said, "It takes only 2 minutes for you to decide to end ALL contact with OM right now. I have zero interest or desire to share you with another man. He is a predator and I am here to protect our marriage. Make no mistake. I am not willing to live in an open marriage nor plan to do so. We have some decisions to make here."

Then I would have sat back and watched W's reaction. Now that she chose to go to the firehouse, then I would have said, "Well, I have my answer right there..it says it all for me. You are not welcome to stay in the master bedroom at all."

No turning tails and running off to stay at mommy's house.

Know what? Starsky, while in the early stages, he locked the front door at 10 or 11 pm every night because his wayward wife (the fetching Mrs. Puppy/Starsky) would come home at all odd hours. That is A REAL MAN!!! I have a huge crush on Puppy.

No more lapping up some measly crumbs from W as long as SHE IS IN CONTACT WITH THE OM. You are worth so so much more than that, my friend. It all comes to self-respect. It's that simple.

[Wonka]

Oh and a word to the wise about drafting a no-contact letter. It MUST be reviewed and approved by you prior to sending out to the OM and it MUST be cc'd to you. No quibbling on this one.

There are some really good ones on the Internet. My favorite ones are focused on the "incredibly hurtful and selfish act that broke up my marriage and family. My focus is on mending the damage that my thoughtless actions had on my husband and family. For this to be effective, there has to be no further contact EVER with you at all. Please do not contact me by email, texts, calls, Facebook messages, or any other form of communication......blah blah."

[Sotto]

Hi Coconut, I'm sorry for what you are going through. On the plus side, you have two of our most respected vets posting on your thread. Do make the most of that and heed their advice - these two lovely ladies know what they're talking about.

I hope things start to improve for you soon xx

[Coconut]

Well, his response shows me he's still perusing, he greeted her, validated her feelings, said he'd do whatever he could for her...

WW's text:
Hi,

I know that we agreed not to communicate with one another unless required during a call but I need to discuss something with you. Donnie is not comfortable with us working at the same station or having any contact with each other whatsoever. I do not want to have to quit the Academy & I don't think that I'm close enough to another station to request a transfer.

Do you live close enough to another station that you can request a transfer & if so would you be willing to speaking with Captain about transferring to another station? I don't want a mistake that we made to cost me the department so I am asking for your help to make this right.

OM response:
Hey what's up? Yes I agree. It's not worth you quitting the academy. I know you love it too much. As far as me transferring , yes I am going to be moving very soon so I will be at another station. I will do all I can to make it right and so you have no issues graduating the academy.


I want to respond - I don't need you to be concerned about me, I need to know when you'll be leaving the station.