Ah, you said it! People in this world are good people. There may be one or two values that don't align with yours and you wouldn't want them as a part of your life. Their values have to match exactly to yours to be friends with them, or to learn something from them? I have friends who "believe" in divorce. (whatever "believing" means?) There deal breakers are cheating, and if they tried to repair a marriage and felt they just couldn't, would divorce. And can I tell you? They are wonderful people still with great values in other areas in their lives which I have learned so much from, and have enriched my life. They are kind-hearted, have done much for people in need, care about others, would give the shirt right off their backs to me. I couldn't fathom not having them in my life because they would get a divorce. That is their personal life, not my business, it doesn't affect mine, and as long as they are continuing to enrich my life, the lives of others, are supportive and loving, I can't see how their very personal life is a barrier to our friendship.
I am just explaining, not trying to convince you otherwise, because clearly you view it otherwise. Do I think you might be keeping some great people who could enrich your life out of your life? Yup. But that's your choice.
Oh, and to answer your question, no, if I knew 100% that my next marriage would end in end in betrayal and heartbreak would I do it? Hell no! but there is no way we could know that 100%. or 99%.
Life is Life. Nothing is 100%. Only death. We either stop living because we fear, or we take the risk with the possibility of great reward.
Oh, and Zeus, I'm not trying to be all rosie optimistic here either. I am very much a realist.
Right now, I have decided I cannot handle the risk of another R ending the way they have been. I am afraid, for NOW, it may actually break me. So I am stepping back. As much as I want a love and partner in my life, I know me right now, and I can't handle another breakup going to the same way.
I do not tell myself it's forever, and I don't give a time limit on when I might be ready again. I don't plan for the the worst happening in the future.
But for today, I just cannot do it. We shall see for the future.
I got your joke and compliment Zues. Maybe Sunnys Blonde and it will take some time before she grasps. it. ( threw myself under the bus there for you mate )
Of course your burned after two serious relationships ended the way they did. Anyone would be It's how you choose to deal with it and I mean that sincerely
My first dog was a German Shepard that I had when I was 23 When he passed I made the decision that I would never love a dog the way I loved him. ( he was the best dog ever by the way ). I have three dogs now and have had 4'others since and while I love them all ( the little one is lying on my chest as I type this ) I would never let one into my heart the way I did the first one
We all live our lives as best we can and make choices for ourselves Your obviously an intelligent man ( even if your not funny !!!!! ) and more than able to make choices for you Maybe don't set all your decisions in stone because who knows what's around the corner
I happen to agree with you on most things by the way
Ginger, I think we sort the people we hang out with by their values all the time, and we each have our own deal breakers.
Let's take alcoholism. My best friend doesn't drink. I do have a few friends that drink more than I would feel comfortable with, but not out of control, and it doesn't impact them or me. I can hang with that. BUT- if someone was drinking and driving, endangering other people on the road, and oblivious to the consequences or responsibility...I would not be friends with that person. That would be a deal breaker. I might let them know why and encourage them to get help, but until that behavior changed I wouldn't want to be too close.
There are all kinds of spectrum of what we consider to be a mere difference of opinion, versus a destructive and unacceptable behavior. I happen to feel that 'divorcers' are very destructive to our society, and based on what I've been through I don't want anything to do with them.
This might change with time. I don't believe my commitment to divorce will wane, but my distaste for associating with divorcers could. We'll see. There are people that are extremely liberal that don't let that impact friendships with conservatives. But there are also people that lost a family member to a drunk driver that will never associate with a drunk driver voluntarily. In my mind divorcers are closer to drunk drivers that kill families than simply people that share a different stance on political issues. But again, we'll see what the future holds.
As for the 'no guarantees' thing, it's true there is no 100% that a relationship would fail. But if we're on the same page that we wouldn't enter a relationship that was guaranteed to fail, then the follow up is how much risk can we accept? I understand there is risk inherent in everything, and I don't intend to miss out on my life by hiding under my covers jaded that I don't get those guarantees. But while there are no guarantees, there are still good risks and bad risks. For example, if there was a guy that had initiated 12 divorces, I think that would be a bad risk because it is incredibly hard to imaging that working out. All I'm saying is that to me at this time getting remarried seems like a bad risk in general.
RD and Ginger both, I am not carving anything in stone. Just talking about what makes sense to me today. I reserve the right to change as I grow as a person. Some of the questions I am asking are for that very reason. I'm asking myself these questions, trying to sort through the difference in my core beliefs versus emotional reactions to some wounds and pain. I don't know where all of those lines are, so this is helpful to my healing. I don't know where I'll end up once I've made as close to a full recovery as I can. But I do know for sure some wounds will never entirely heal, and that my underlying stance against divorce IS belief based and not just a mood I'm in. Beyond that I'll have to wait and see.
Thanks for the good conversation.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Hey my friend, I have been giving much thought, to our resent reconnection. I believe I know what it is. I believe that what breaks my heart about all this, I see so much of myself in you.
You are way smarter, more determined, focussed and motivated than I am, you understand the complex emotions and thoughts of others way better than I do and you have a brain that supports you to communicate yourself with simplicity without it being simple, and you are genuinely kind in how you post to others. I'm not any of these things. But in our emotional worlds however have many similarities. I believe I know why I found it so hard reading your posts.
There's only one another person I know who rejects love like you and that's me.
I think that's why I don't post very much on your thread's because love becomes an intellectual debate, and it isn't for me. I don't want the belief I hold about love being powerful and healing, and human connection between two loving adults (be it plantonic, romantic or sexual) being one of the greatest human experiences, I don't want that rejected by you.
I don't want my love and friendship of you rejected. I'm rejected because you fundamentally don't believe these are truths. It hurts.
It feels like your position on divorce his greater than love. So in other words how I interpret your position - Divorce is more important to you than ME. That your position on divorce is greater than you experiencing love.
(Crazy logic, but there you have it and I never said I wasn't crazy).
It seems the saddest thing in the world to me. for something that so painfully stopped you in your tracks, is ultimately the very thing that will stop you from having love in your life, having good people like me in your life.
You've let divorce win. And that kind sir breaks my heart.
This post was about two pages Zues. But I don't know it's value to you or to me.
So I guess there you have it. We sit in two opposite positions. Please know I fully aware of what the above comment says about my own psyche. There's a fair amount of projection in there. But Zues there is also some truth.
RD and Ginger both, I am not carving anything in stone. Just talking about what makes sense to me today. I reserve the right to change as I grow as a person.
^^^ this
You can call me Dory/ Grl.
As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"
It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
I think an interesting question for the DB members is this: If you KNEW 100% that your next marriage would end in betrayal and another divorce, but that you'd have a honeymoon period and some companionship for 3-15 years...would you sign up for that relationship?
No... no way. I couldn't survive another round of this. I'd rather do with friends and family. It makes me cry just to think about it.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
I am a romantic I believe in love. I will love again, I will take that risk. It's important to me to do that. From that which I know now then I very much doubt my next choice will be a failure. If it is it will be for new reasons. I will ensure I am never abused again.
Zues, you are entitled to your views, I am unsure having such strong opinions on Rs is helpful to you in an R or M. Judgement of others and yourself is a tough gig, it's hard to live under a strong spotlight. I am more a live and let live type which allows me to tolerate a wider variety of friends. I couldn't be in an R which prevented me from having male friends, I have male friends of all ages and some of these have been friends for 30 years. There is no risk there at all. I have one male friend who would like an R with me and I said no. I am not tempted that friendship is too valuable to me. Waywards don't tend to have As with these types of friends anyway, they prefer sparkly inappropriate and new.
XWH had very strong judgements on just about everything, how I loaded the dishwasher, pasta, my clothes, alcohol, meat with bones......
It is very tough to live with that level of judgement. Even someone so easy going as V feels judged constantly against some impossible standard.
I find you interesting and your thoughts inspiring on many things. You are a kind and generous man with the newbies here. You are tough on yourself and your partners or so it seems in your writing. I personally would like Zues to have some compassion for himself, notice I don't say feel sorry for himself or excuse his failings, entirely different. Just kindness for one who is doing his best.
Your drive serves you well in achieving your goals. It helps to make you who you are although drive in an R can be destructive. It's likely you need a very mature (in terms of spirit) W who can handle this level of judgement. Someone who will smile and say it's ok. Its just Zues.
I like JellyB reply although it many ways it says more about her judging herself than your judgement of her. She is evaluating herself by your standards in her post and speaks eloquently. Her core message is sound Zues are you letting D win over love and compassion? That is how partners may feel in an R unable to meet such high judgement? Can you see that?
My friendship is there for you to have if you want it. That's your choice Zues. I like you as you are anyway, I find you interesting and believe you would make a good friend. Hit your next R and friendship is over because I have lady bits! Well that's not how it is for me, my friends are part of my life, they stay in my life. As long as both friends want that.
Oh and RD I am very blonde! And senior!
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
