Thank you V, your words and tone are always so much kinder than mine. That's what I really wanted to say.
My prison is of my own making Zues, not of yours, and if it sounded so, again my apologies. I swear I know there are always three fingers pointing back when one is pointing forward.
Jksd. The conclusion re blondes has being proven in various and plentiful scientific tests and has no impact ( maybe slightly positively ) on loveliness or kindness , indeed it could be argued because blondes have less to think about it gives them more time to be good people
I would invoke the metaphoric ' don't shoot the messenger ' phrase Genetics can't be argued with
The conclusion re blondes has being proven in various and plentiful scientific tests and has no impact ( maybe slightly positively ) on loveliness or kindness , indeed it could be argued because blondes have less to think about it gives them more time to be good people
I went through a brunette phase a couple of years ago, I actually liked the contrast with my eyes. However, it didn't seem to impact my intellect, and the upkeep got to be too much, so I resigned myself and my IQ back to blonde.
Spoken like a true blonde !!!!!! At least you tried Sunny !!!! And can I just clarify in no way where my remarks a criticism Blondes ladies have their place in the world along with clever people or skilled people or even unattractive people
The world , IMHO needs people with intellect and blondes in equal measure , no point in having an attractive and an intelligent person in the same body , that would be a waste
And as Darwin has theorised ( enough to convince me ) natural selection has its uses and maybe even a grand plan from a higher source
When I was younger and out looking for female company , natural selection made it possible for me to pick the cutest , most likely to have a good time and someone I was intellectually superior to by something as simple as hair colour !!
What a wonderful thing nature is
I for one think blondes are needed and won't have another word said against them
( not that they take offence often , it normally goes straight over their heads )
to speak to your not wanting to associate with "divorcers" theories based upon your values....
I just want to give you another perspective, as always. I did not divorce my ex, I did not cheat on him, he cheated on me. I wanted to save it, but that was not an option. However, there was a good chance I would have ended up being the "divorcer" some where along the line. I was treated awfully. He refused to treat me good. I do not think I come close to comparing with a drunk driver, or a slave trader, as the examples you gave. There are many kind of "divorcers" out there. Some who give the BS of "you aren't making me happy, buh-bye kind" and the kind who are in a marriage who try so hard to make it work, but only one is doing the work, and the other couldn't give a crap, because being married in their mind keeps them entitled to never work on it, and to not consider their spouse. I don't think it's really fair to generalize and compare these people to those who have the values of a racist or a killer.
JellyB and Vanilla have said what I have been trying to say. You are putting divorce above love and compassion. Divorce wins in your book. I'm sad to see divorce is winning. But I hope it's only for right now.
Wow. Lots to respond too. I appreciate the time you have spent with your replies. I truly hope everyone is gaining from these conversations as I'm feeling a bit undeserving of this attention. OK, get ready...;)
Brainstorm about anger. So my mother is staying with me through the summer to help with the kids (she is a professor and has summers off). For those that don't know, about 9 months ago her boyfriend of 10 years cheated on her with a married woman about half their ages. She ended things and hasn't looked back. But she still struggles with anger. She is not too proud to admit that she sometimes wishes he'd suffer.
I thought about where this comes from, and one idea came to mind. I think our real desire is to be validated. It's like we desire to be understood. We want the WAS to know how much they hurt us. We want them to know how wrong what they are doing is. We want them to see the fog they're in. And somehow, we think if they felt the same pain we felt, that they would realize all of these things, snap out of the fog, and understand they are making a mistake. They are so stubborn, we want them to suffer for their decisions so they recognize we're right. R or not, at least we'd be validated. In fact, even after we wouldn't want R, the desire remains to be understood anyway.
It's not been an easy process, nor is it entirely finished, but by making peace with the fact that XW simply sees things differently than I do and likely always will, I have lost a lot of the anger I had towards her. Maybe this doesn't really change anything or help anyone, just an interesting thing I have noticed. That validation is a desire that last longer than the desire for R.
Friends. Guys, thank you being in my life. I will say again I've never had a group like this before, and it has been a salvation. As far as being friends, yes, you guys are all my friends. You have all played a meaningful role in my life. It's strange because it's a forum. I've never met you. We don't go places together. But you are helping me with some of the most important struggles of my life. That's pretty cool.
Only thing is that because it is a public forum there is nothing inappropriate in my book. In other words, if I was married I don't think there would be any issue with maintaining these relationships. I DO think if I was married I wouldn't want to swap contact info and take the conversations offline 1:1. But DB forums don't worry me. That doesn't mean you aren't good friends. Just means it is a safe venue. In fact, maybe this is a golden opportunity for me to be friends with some women without getting too uncomfortable for me
Crazy. So, tonight I watched "Pawn Sacrifice" with my mother. About Bobby Fischer, and his journey to win the world chess championship. There is no disputing that Bobby was crazy. The movie illustrated that quite nicely. Many top competitors are crazy.
Well, I too am a little different. I have been chided a bit, people have told me I distance myself from others, focus on my differences, things like this. Maybe. But maybe I am actually trying to bridge those differences, and just trying to show you where I live.
I know some of the positive qualities. In some areas I am brilliant, driven, intense. I also know that I have impossible standards that drive others away and make people feel insufficient, that I can be exhausting because of my intensity. XW just wanted a guy that she could drink beer with and watch TV. I struggled with that because I seem to be compelled to keep driving much of the time.
I am trying. I have taken steps to become more balanced. I was talking to my mother about the kids when they were younger, and I realized I barely knew my kids until this divorce. I was so in my own world. I remember crying because I felt that my kids were growing up on the other side of a glass wall that I couldn't get through. I was just so far in my own thing I couldn't relate to the outside world. Now that has changed. I am still a bit wide eyed, but I am there with my kids. I go to their world, and they are invited to mine. Even though it means I have all but retired my deepest passions.
Clearly I have accountability to change what I can, and to accept the consequences of my behavior. Maybe that's why I keep people at a distance at times, it causes me pain to know that I cause others pain. But while I can learn, and grow, and work through some things, there is also a possibility that I am a little outside the box. No excuses, no complaining. But look at Bobby Fischer. I mean, if you're crazy...what do you do? At what point do you shift from trying to learn and grow, to just accepting that the world sees things totally different from you and to disappear for 20 years and isolate yourself? I take ADs, during the movie I said to my mom "You know what the difference between him and me is? THIS" and then I held up my pill. Seriously. Before the meds it was unreal. I didn't even realize how out there I was until the last couple of years. My therapist has told me "You need to understand, your XW was living with a crazy person".
I don't know what my point is here guys. I want you to know I care a lot, I am doing my best. Trust me, if you feel judged, understand I do too, I am frustrated with my limitations. All I ask is that you have some compassion and give me the benefit of the doubt that maybe there are some things I didn't choose to be. You don't choose to feel tired at night, and you don't choose to feel lonely when there is no one to talk to. It just seems to be how we are, and it drives us to sleep, to share our experiences with others. Well, for me I don't choose to be so disturbed by some of the things that disturb me. I don't choose to be as wounded as I am by the loss I went through. And I don't choose to be as impatient with my own imperfections as I am. Nevertheless it is a big part of me. I own what I do from here, and am working hard to find ways to work through this to minimize the harm I cause myself and others, and let the good outweigh the bad. But there are limitations and I am also trying to learn them and understand where I cut bait and work within my own reality as well.
Letting Divorce Win. I can't help but reiterate how much I appreciate your posts. Great, great post. Still meditating on it. In light of my last segment, all I can do is explain how I perceive things.
I believe that we become like the people we hang out with. You know a person by their friends, and you are influenced by your friends as well. I don't choose my friends to be just like me. I choose my friends to inspire me, to be people I admire, that I want to be like, that bring out the best in me. I think we're all good with that so far. The question is 'why do they have to fit a box'.
Well, there's my sister. My sister is a "Divorcer". She married a man that I got to know and like quite a bit. Great guy. Wrote a funny play that sold out. Very smart, nice, interesting. Well, she divorced him. She moved in with a rockstar that was an active heroin addict. Oh, she was a 10 year heroin addict so it is inconceivable that she maintained her sobriety, but then again maybe, just maybe she was trying to be a rescuer.
I never understood my sisters decision. It bothered me. It didn't seem right. But she was my sister, and it wasn't my life. So I didn't judge too harshly, I just shrugged it off and kept moving forward.
Fast forward to the 3 months before BD. Sister and XW started hanging out. I was oblivious at the time, but turns out that XW was telling sister all of the issues in our relationship. What did sister do? Did she respect the marriage and the boundaries, and tell XW to make the M work?
Nope. She told XW how her divorce was necessary for her to have the chance at finding a more fulfilling relationship. How sometimes a dynamic can just be destructive, and that's not good for anyone.
The email that I got the night of BD...the one that was two pages explaining why we couldn't be together anymore, and why she needed a divorce...that was co-authored by sister.
When I found out that XW had been drinking to black out drunk, having a string of other men, driving drunk, being unable to get up in the morning when my kids needed to get ready from school to the point of needing to be shaken awake...sister said "I told her she needed to reign it in a little, I mean it's one thing to have a chill summer and have a fling or two, but you gotta keep it under control" as if that was noble advice.
Now, my divorce isn't my sister's fault. It's mine for being who I am and was, it's XW's for making the choices she made. But I'll always wonder. What would've happened if when XW was vulnerable, reaching out to sister, and they were drinking wine all night long the day before BD...what might've happened if she'd been given a different message?
Not sure. It doesn't matter anymore. But here's the thing...I don't talk to sister anymore. Because she to this day doesn't think she did anything wrong. To this day she believes in her reasons for divorce. To this day she believes that she acted appropriately. And I want no part of it.
I still arranged to have her see the children my last weekend with the kids. I won't cut the children off from their aunt and visa versa. I'll still hug her at family get togethers, and maybe catch up a bit. If she needs something I'll help her out. But I'll tell you this...if I WERE ever in a relationship with another woman, I wouldn't want sister anywhere close. And I guess I feel that way today.
This is where I am coming from. I don't believe in divorce. I've experienced the most devastating loss of my life because of it. And I've seen the role of those that do contribute to an environment in which that loss was born.
I'm not here to judge others, condemn others, win others to my way of thinking. I honestly don't even remember how this topic came up. Maybe I will just stop posting on these topics and accept that we'll see things differently, take a few weeks of the boards, and stick to more neutral topics after that, or helping new guys as best I can. I don't want to go around in circles trying to achieve some understanding that can't be achieved. It's like MWD says, most issues in marriage aren't resolvable, they are just chronic differences you have to accept. I can accept you guys see things differently than me, and I appreciate you doing the same for me. Because I do think we understand each others points, we just come to different conclusions. And I can live with that.
In closing I'll reiterate, nothing is cast in stone, this isn't gospel. I will absolutely read everything you guys write. I have changed in some good ways over the last year. Hopefully more changes are to come. And like the serenity prayer says, I will also hopefully come to learn the limits of my change, and find a way to live peacefully within those limitations.
JB- I am curious what specifically you feel I would condemn you for? I guess I wasn't clear.
PS- my son is like me. He is a bit crazy. A wizard with his passion. Different than those around him. I told my mom I was proud of him. While I regret the pain that will cause him, the likelihood that he, too, will be doomed to a solitary road in many ways, I am also proud that he gets to have the view that comes when you are that far out on the ledge. My mom said that it is like a family tradition among the males, and that "the force is strong within that one". I wouldn't want it any other way
Thanks for your time and take care gang. I care for ALL of you.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
