Although I am happy with where I am and that is not reframing, but an honest appraisal of the difference in my life from before BD, I do still get angry with the garbage Mr. Fantastic pulls. He upended my life and our children's lives in as hurtful a way as he had the b@lls to do, and regardless of what I want wrt relationships in my life, betrayal hurts. So I can't make a big enough gulf between him and me. Every time he tries to bridge it, I feel compelled to reinforce that gulf again. This p!sses him off no end and every so often he'll send me a three page diatribe about how he's just trying to be the good guy here.
Is that the dynamic between you and XW? Only magnified like a thousand times because she's way more toxic and involved than Mr. Fantastic, and because you are so resentful of the financial situation?
I personally wanted to be in a relationship because I crave intimacy, because I want to feel like what i offer as a human being is useful to another adult, and because to me it's an opportunity to grow beyond what I ever thought my life would be like. If a relationship doesn't serve those needs for you, or there isn't enough of you left to invest in another person at the moment, then I for one say, wait until you have something to offer that you WANT to offer. The heck with what other people think you should want. If you follow their opinions you will become the WH and I doubt that's who you want to be.
FWIW, you have always struck me as a person with a person with a very strong need to control your environment. For whatever reason. You're being called to submit to a lack of control -- I have no doubt that would be difficult for you and leave you feeling drained and angry. Does it matter much if that's hard-wired or a response to your environment? You're in a fight-or-flight situation at the moment, without the flight option. I say, learn how to manage it until the situation is resolved and then dive into the origin question.
What can you do to relax and calm yourself? Prayer, meditation, yoga, a hard run? Where can you find some flow in a way that doesn't amp up your adrenaline? You need a break, Zues.
Wishing you the best...
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Ok, to be fair......do you not see how your story is just like your friend's but in reverse?
The guy who bounced the check knew he was going to pay your friend, but friend didn't .....leading to unnecessary time spent worrying.
You knew you were going to get the car tags to your W,but she didn't......leading to unnecessary time spent worrying.
If you had simply replied to her email or text promptly by saying "I don't know, I'll check when I get home" all would have been avoided.
You need to recognize your own passive-aggressive behavior in not answering her text.
You couldn't be more wrong.
The difference is that in the check scenario the person writing the check broke trust TWICE. First in not having the funds there, then by not following through how he committed to doing.
In my instance there was no broken promise. Delivering her tabs within 24 hours is not passive aggressive. It is stand up. As for not texting back, the entire reason I limit communication with her on non-emergency communication is because of how toxic she's been to me over the last 18 months and the boundaries I've had to impose to not allow her to disrupt my life.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Although I am happy with where I am and that is not reframing, but an honest appraisal of the difference in my life from before BD, I do still get angry with the garbage Mr. Fantastic pulls. He upended my life and our children's lives in as hurtful a way as he had the b@lls to do, and regardless of what I want wrt relationships in my life, betrayal hurts. So I can't make a big enough gulf between him and me. Every time he tries to bridge it, I feel compelled to reinforce that gulf again. This p!sses him off no end and every so often he'll send me a three page diatribe about how he's just trying to be the good guy here.
Is that the dynamic between you and XW? Only magnified like a thousand times because she's way more toxic and involved than Mr. Fantastic, and because you are so resentful of the financial situation?
I personally wanted to be in a relationship because I crave intimacy, because I want to feel like what i offer as a human being is useful to another adult, and because to me it's an opportunity to grow beyond what I ever thought my life would be like. If a relationship doesn't serve those needs for you, or there isn't enough of you left to invest in another person at the moment, then I for one say, wait until you have something to offer that you WANT to offer. The heck with what other people think you should want. If you follow their opinions you will become the WH and I doubt that's who you want to be.
FWIW, you have always struck me as a person with a person with a very strong need to control your environment. For whatever reason. You're being called to submit to a lack of control -- I have no doubt that would be difficult for you and leave you feeling drained and angry. Does it matter much if that's hard-wired or a response to your environment? You're in a fight-or-flight situation at the moment, without the flight option. I say, learn how to manage it until the situation is resolved and then dive into the origin question.
What can you do to relax and calm yourself? Prayer, meditation, yoga, a hard run? Where can you find some flow in a way that doesn't amp up your adrenaline? You need a break, Zues.
Wishing you the best...
Hey MB! Yes, I think the dynamic is similar. I don't think it's necessarily magnified, I think similar is correct. It's one of those illusions caused by the fact that I only post when I overcome my inertia, and we tend to focus on our feelings about D here, so it could seem that it's more overwhelming than it is. The fact is that XW is rarely on my mind, her emails to me just make me laugh (I've literally laughed off dozens like this without sharing), and I don't carry much resentment around with me day to day, and while I am disgusted by the rampant divorces and the impact on others I can see that dying down as I extract myself from the midst of it and further distance from XW and the life she has chosen for herself.
I can see how controlling could fit in. Controlling at the surface has a negative connotation, but in light of my previous example (the one where I can't walk down the street because I don't want to be bumpted into) it makes some sense. In that example maybe instead of just walking out the door, I'd check first to make sure it wasn't too crowded. Or I'd want to plan a different route to be safe. Etc. This would seem neurotic to most people, but only to those with the luxury of not being impacted to the same degree. Maybe things disturb me more than other people, and so my distancing seems extreme. For me I just don't want to get hurt anymore.
Part of this could just be sensitivity after the wounds of divorce. Maybe in a year or two I am not so sensitive. I'm trying to remember how I was pre-BD and it's not easy. I really avoided my emotions and tried to just focus on pool and work. These are closed environment games, and I feel safe. I think that's it Maybell, I don't know that control resonates with me (although it overlaps), I think it's about feeling safe. I feel safe when I play pool.
As for taking a break, you are spot on. I'm ready. In August I have some vacation planned. The first time in several years. I am taking my kids camping next weekend, then I have a week long pool trip in Vegas. In the middle of a lot of stress (court date 9/1, working my tail off while still setting up interviews in case my job doesn't work out, etc) I have to take a break. It's not easy for me because I feel perpetually like I need to push harder, harder, harder, until I make it all work, but at some point I have to realize I am only human, I can't force something, and if I am in a role so difficult I can't take a weekend off with my family then I shouldn't be in that role.
Last night I saw Jason Bourne, I knew it would be cheesy, but that was perfect. I got together with my friend, watched the movie, then played some pool. Pool makes me happy. Now I'm going to go play a little more pool. Tomorrow I can get some work done, next week will be a grind, but for today I'm going to relax. You should see what I can do with the cue ball Maybell. I can make it travel 3 and 4 rails and stop on the speck of lint on the table I was looking at, landing perfectly for my next shot, running table after table that looked almost impossible by finding the only way through the hurdles. It makes me happy. It may not be a practical skill, but it does make me happy.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I've got so much to ay to you. But I also have a paper to finish up and my friends are on the way for the weekend.....
So, I'll say a little but. I am not Ms. Suzy Sunshine. I'm a realist. So, I do not see the world as all good. Because it isn't. There is good and bad, and somewhere in between. If I focused on all the bad, well, everything would be dark and gray. How miserable it would be. I'd swear everyone off and live in a hole.,
Example: I am a nurse. I used to work in ICU. We had this young, rather large patient would would end up in our ICU, intubated, on the brink of death every few years. We would break our backs cleaning him. We would do all we could to keep this young man who did not care for himself alive. As soon as he was well enough to come off the ventilator, he woul curse us all out and sign out Against medical advice. Then we would see him a few months later and the same cycle would happen. And one day, he only made it as far as the morgue, unfortunately.
Then there are patients like the young cop, who was an avid pool player. If i was on shift, I was his nurse.He loved pool as much as you do. He came in septic and tied to die a bunch of times. And he lost his hand. due to septic shock. Not good for a pool player and a cop. Well,we saved him. He woke up, came off the ventilator and he wasa so incredibly grateful he was alive. He just kept thanking us, even though he lost his hand (and a foot). All his cop buddies, and his father, the ex captain, couldn't have been more thankful. He works on the force my exSIL's husband works in. He now works at the desk, but got prosthetics and plays pool again!
Moral of my long drawn out stories. I could focus on Mr. ungrateful and think that is what humanity is and swear off people because of him. Or I could focus on Mr. Cop, because I believe he is the majority in this world, and the more people I bring closer, like him, the better my life will be.
I think your focus is so zoomed in on the bad, you can't see the good. It's not a matter of even reframing. It's a matter of focusing elsewhere. Personality disorder or not, this would probably be the way to handle it.
I've got so much to ay to you. But I also have a paper to finish up and my friends are on the way for the weekend.....
So, I'll say a little but. I am not Ms. Suzy Sunshine. I'm a realist. So, I do not see the world as all good. Because it isn't. There is good and bad, and somewhere in between. If I focused on all the bad, well, everything would be dark and gray. How miserable it would be. I'd swear everyone off and live in a hole.,
Example: I am a nurse. I used to work in ICU. We had this young, rather large patient would would end up in our ICU, intubated, on the brink of death every few years. We would break our backs cleaning him. We would do all we could to keep this young man who did not care for himself alive. As soon as he was well enough to come off the ventilator, he woul curse us all out and sign out Against medical advice. Then we would see him a few months later and the same cycle would happen. And one day, he only made it as far as the morgue, unfortunately.
Then there are patients like the young cop, who was an avid pool player. If i was on shift, I was his nurse.He loved pool as much as you do. He came in septic and tied to die a bunch of times. And he lost his hand. due to septic shock. Not good for a pool player and a cop. Well,we saved him. He woke up, came off the ventilator and he wasa so incredibly grateful he was alive. He just kept thanking us, even though he lost his hand (and a foot). All his cop buddies, and his father, the ex captain, couldn't have been more thankful. He works on the force my exSIL's husband works in. He now works at the desk, but got prosthetics and plays pool again!
Moral of my long drawn out stories. I could focus on Mr. ungrateful and think that is what humanity is and swear off people because of him. Or I could focus on Mr. Cop, because I believe he is the majority in this world, and the more people I bring closer, like him, the better my life will be.
I think your focus is so zoomed in on the bad, you can't see the good. It's not a matter of even reframing. It's a matter of focusing elsewhere. Personality disorder or not, this would probably be the way to handle it.
I LOVE THIS. Thanks, Ginger, that was perfect!!!
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
OK, I've thought a lot about this today and talked it through with my pool playing buddy. As I've said I love these forums, and I love the people on them. Ginger, I'm lucky to have you following me on my sitch and offering support and talking through some of the things you've seen along the way. Yet I was put off with the whole "I have so much to say to you" as well as the conclusive tone of the post which made it feel to me you thought you were addressing someone that is hopelessly off track. In the end I have followed you long enough to know who you are so I was able to digest what you were saying and not make a mountain out of a mole hill.
The reason I bring this up is that it contains several of the moving parts in which I am giving a lot of thought. Those are expectations, focus, self-criticism, and third party boundaries.
Expectations are the first part. What am I expecting from the world around me? When I talked to my friend I found it was interesting how expectations were similar to having 'covert contracts'. After some discussion I could see that at times I have some trace of a contract in which I am really hard on myself and in turn expect validation and sensitivity from others.
For example, I am a model employee. I have a deep desire to receive positive feedback. As a result I drive myself very hard to exceed all expectations. I constantly challenge myself and every part of my performance and demand that I do the absolute best I can. Among other reasons one of my ideas is that if I am tougher on myself than the person I work for then they will be pleased with my results and have nothing but good things to say.
The problem is that isn't always possible. There are managers out there that will be constantly critical. Talking of focus, they focus strictly on the gap between my performance and perfection, and overlook the reality of my accomplishments and contributions. Those types of people exist. So how do I handle that?
When if I have a secret contract full of expectations that says "hey, I'm supposed to bleed for you and all but kill myself doing my best, and you're supposed to be grateful", well, I will feel disappointed and betrayed. This leads to thoughts about how that boss is a jerk, and can lead to resentment as well.
When I lose the expectations from someone else it all changes. I can answer to myself, look in the mirror, and know where I came short, and where I played well. This ties in with the last piece, boundaries. In essence I can be my own boss, and just accept that my boss is simply a person I report to, nothing more. This doesn't mean I dismiss feedback, it just means that I don't delegate my self worth to someone that might not take the same care of it that I would want.
The last part of this is that one of the problems with the 'be so hard on yourself that others can't' is that at times I am too hard on myself. Because it does involve focusing on the never ending gap between reality and idealized perfection.
I have gotten much better at this in my life. Probably comes from a childhood trying to win approval from a father that was impossible to please. Whatever. It is still a big part of me, but I've at least become aware of it, and I've learned some tools to manage through it. These days I do a good job navigating through other people's opinions at work, and certainly when I shoot pool the choir of sideline experts are now nothing more than static background to me. Yet I know this is something I need to continue to work on in my relationships.
Because I didn't necessarily conquer the issue, I just move it around. Like deep down I am trying to win the approval of others. I tried with pool by becoming a champion, that didn't work. I tried in my profession, that certainly doesn't work either. And finally I tried in my marriage, and that failed miserably as well. All of the expectation was too much.
So back to the forums. I realize I have done the same thing here. I cannot allow people on the DB forums to define how I feel I am doing, not because they are anything less than stupendous, but because that is a job for me alone. I've touched this many, many times, but if I'm not careful it goes away and I slip back into old habits.
KML, if you're reading I apologize for my abrasive retort. Hopefully this helps understand why I overreacted. XW is trying hard to push buttons and hit nerves. It's the same thing. For 18 months I have conducted myself almost beyond reproach, yet her communications are perpetually laced with criticism and condescension. Which is really absurd considering her decisions and hypocritical as the things she's chosen to attack me on are trivial compared to the nature of her continued attacks. I have had to put up strong boundaries and detach a lot which has not been easy. Being told her spew was true definitely triggered me. But all that said, that has nothing to do with you. You are just a good person trying your best to help from the view you were in, and you definitely don't deserve to be rebuked for that. I am sorry for that.
Today I had a good day. I played some pool, in fact I won a pool tournament which is always cool. It is very fun for me, that game of pool. Watched an episode of Dr House with my mom and had a nice breakfast. Then watched some chess before calling it a night. And of course a good talk with my friend, and some good reflection. And I won today's fight, I am deeply satisfied with who I am. There is always a reflexive part of me that wants to chime in with 'but but but' and point out where I can improve, but I am laughing that off. This post is proof I haven't lost my drive to improve, I thought about it all day, and am posting at 5AM my time when I woke up, so no critical self, I'm not complacent. But despite my humanity, I am, at least in this moment, satisfied with who I am, appreciative of the things I have been blessed with, and have been rewarded with some good times. Take care DBers!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Well, I was just pointing out that when someone texts you a direct question, and you don't respond, that causes the other person to be frustrated because they don't know that you are working on it. A simple "I'll check" can eliminate that.
Look, I understand what it's like to dread communication from your ex. Spew is so unpleasant. I gradually trained mine to only use email. If he called and I mistakenly answered (I had an old flip phone at the time and couldn't see who was calling) our phone call would "mysteriously" get cut off in the middle. If he called right back I'd say "sorry I must be driving through a coverage hole" and the minute he started spewing again, we'd get "mysteriously" cut off again!
If he texted I responded with email. And when he emails my answers are brief and to the point, I don't encourage chit chat. I answer what needs to be answered and don't respond to anything else he says.
