The Fight for Self

[hawker]

Thanks for the information CT, very interesting!

[RSG]

This info is sad, depressing, interesting, and shows hope all at the same time. There is hope, but only with hard HARD work will there be any realization of that.

One other stat I'd like to see: How many people who say The only way I'd divorce you is if you committed adultery actually end up doing it. It's one thing to say it, it's another to be involved in it. Especially with a child.

My W fits into so many of these. Especially this: Most A's begun by women take place in the first few years of M if they feel dissatisfaction with themselves, their lives, and the M.

Moreso the first two, but the last one too....

[ForGump]

- Most individuals who begin an A will not be able to take the AP relationship beyond the initial first phase of a relationship.

Not sure what "AP" means in this context.

Does this mean that someone who has an affair is unlikely to nurture that affair into a lasting relationship?

Thanks for the list.

[CT1118]

This info is sad, depressing, interesting, and shows hope all at the same time. There is hope, but only with hard HARD work will there be any realization of that.
One other stat I'd like to see: How many people who say The only way I'd divorce you is if you committed adultery actually end up doing it. It's one thing to say it, it's another to be involved in it. Especially with a child.

RSG - Those stats are indeed all of those. And for the most part, I saw all of them consistently, perhaps worded differently, but pretty consistent. There is hope my friend.
I'm not sure how many say that and actually do. I know I quit discussing my sitch w/ guy friends because all I heard was "leave the B, you deserve better". But I have a kid, I have history, we have the same values (mostly, mine did not include walking out), I know she is hurting and confused, and I know what I can take in this world. I never said I would leave my W if she had an A, I never thought it. She was always insecure about me and WW told me early in the M that if I ever cheated she would be very angry, but could forgive it. I pretty much felt and still feel the same way. I say "pretty much" because I can handle the sex part (don't like it, but survivable) I was never mentally prepared for the depth of the lies and selfishness that go along with it, to me that was the real betrayal.

Not sure what "AP" means in this context.

Does this mean that someone who has an affair is unlikely to nurture that affair into a lasting relationship?

Thanks for the list.

ForGump - AP = affair partner. Yes, that is exactly what it means. Truth is, most A's are begun on a lie of some sort. WW certainly lied to LBS, but most likely to their AP as well. The WW also lies to mutual friends, their kids, their parents, their siblings, their friends (not all of them), their employers. A level of cover always exists. Also, the A is typically a fantasy that gets caught in the first stage of attraction - emotional need/sexual desire/romantic events. Everyone loves the feeling of new love, but that never lasts, ever. Once real life creeps in, the WW and her A partner see that they are not compatible with real life - car repair, splitting bills, time management, etc. Plus, whatever problems your WW has personally, odds are she hid these flaws from the A partner...and they will come out. So, that is what I read as the reason that WW's A is unlikely to succeed, that is not to say it's impossible.
The other big reason I read was that when the MLC hits the depression stage, the WW begins to realize all that has been risked, ruined, and lost. She will realize that her old H loved her despite all of her flaws, that she risked her kids, that she is (most likely) in some state of financial ruin, and generally most things in her life are all screwed because of her behavior.

Did that answer it? I hope its all true FWIW. I am very much still in the same state of mess that all here are, I am just a real obsessive person about the need for arming myself with information.

[lt0402]

First, just catching up on this more recent thread CT. I've got to say, it's a great break from our specific situations. Really puts some perspective on things for all of us I think.

I know I quit discussing my sitch w/ guy friends because all I heard was "leave the B, you deserve better". But I have a kid, I have history, we have the same values (mostly, mine did not include walking out), I know she is hurting and confused, and I know what I can take in this world.

W and I are supposed to tell D about S in 2 weeks when we get back from the beach. I'm viewing that as my jumping off point to tell select friends and family. I'm very worried about the feedback I get from everyone too bc I know it'll be biased towards my feelings.

I'm extremely concerned that we all get bad and biased advice daily from those who honestly care for us. Seems like a natural reaction for them to want our pain to stop. There was a good thread on this, but I can't seem to remember which one.

I honestly think that taking a step out of our situations, even just for 5-10 minutes a day to rationally evaluate what's going on is helpful. Easier said than done, but your thread here seems to be a great touchpoint for that.

Appreciate you CT!

[ForGump]

When the MLC hits the depression stage, the WW begins to realize....

Can I take a blue pill and just have reality fast forward to that point in time...?

Hate that we have to drag our kids through this.

[ForGump]

I quit discussing my sitch w/ guy friends because all I heard was "leave the B, you deserve better". But I have a kid, I have history, we have the same values (mostly, mine did not include walking out), I know she is hurting and confused, and I know what I can take in this world.

Reminds me of the line from the Thin Red Line where Private Witt says, "I can take anything you dish out. I am twice the man you are." Your strength is inspiring.

Yeah, I realized early on what worthless echo chambers well-meaning friends can be. They have NO FKNG IDEA how it feels to get crushed by situations like ours, to contemplate what it is and will do to your kids who did not ask for any of this.

For the same reason, I think all the family and friends in my W's life are essentially worthless echo chambers. It's rare for someone to have some wisdom and values, and the balls to stand up for them, when your close friend is doing something idiotic and reckless.

[CT1118]

I'm extremely concerned that we all get bad and biased advice daily from those who honestly care for us. Seems like a natural reaction for them to want our pain to stop. There was a good thread on this, but I can't seem to remember which one.

First off, thanks for appreciating. Second, the quote I clipped from you is true. MWD states this in the 1st chapter of DR. I am not flag waiver here for MWD as her writing does not seem to go to the depths those of us here are in (the purgatory of post LRT life/pre WW may or may not be ever coming back so WTF do I do life). Anyway, I did not tell any family about WW's A. I did tell them we were S. I did tell them my mistakes. The reason I did not expose A - 1. maybe her and I put things back together & 2. better or worse, my WW is the mother of my S, and as long as she upholds her job as being a great mother to my S I will not tolerate her honor being smeared in my presence. If I smear it one day, I have earned that right, but no one else earned it as they do not share an S w/ her...my S has to grow up with her and he has to learn from her. I did tell about 5 friends who were just my friends (no mutual or couples friends) and that still did not help. The ones I spoke with did uphold my request to not speak ill of WW, but to listen to the story, until they didn't. I then I had to check them and then I stopped confiding. Now I only speak with one platonic female and one brother level male. You need one or two confidants, choose wisely. Your friends do care for you - that makes them biased - their advice may not match your action plan. And dudes being dudes, they will draw your anger out like a tick does blood.

Your strength is inspiring.

Yeah, I realized early on what worthless echo chambers well-meaning friends can be. They have NO FKNG IDEA how it feels to get crushed by situations like ours, to contemplate what it is and will do to your kids who did not ask for any of this.

Thanks my friend - I have never had another human being level me like my WW has. And despite the fking demons from Hell which rose up to try and take me, here I stand. But I promise that I am not as strong as I intend to be. This is all catharsis and part of healing and part of my GAL. If what I am writing helps others, I tip my hat really low in their direction as a sign of acknowledgement and am proud I could be of service, but my thread is called "Fight for Self" and that fight remains. In a moment of extreme honesty, during the depths of the worst part of my days I am fking dying inside. But WW does not get that b/c I will not offer it. But.... I digress off track . Your statement about being crushed Forgump is so sublime and true that I wish I could yell it from the roof tops. People talk big game, until the big game comes and they piss their pants.

[CT1118]

So I would really like to write about my sitch, but not entirely just yet. I will say, WW have only exchanged about 15 words today, she made 1st contact, I ended it quickly, this is the least we have communicated in years, and only a small part of me feels tugged, at least at this point in my day. Moving on...

Not sure to whom I stated I would put examples of my goals up for today. I must point out that while the MWD books said you should write them down I did not. It was not until in my old thread ForGump called me out specifically about what my goals were that I actually wrote them down (moving the ball forward FG - thank you for calling the play), but anyway I said I would do it, I said I would do it today, honoring my word, so here goes:

Vision - to become a person who can be functionally happy and satisfied independently of any attachments or relationships to things or people in his life.

Mission - to continue to enhance, improve, and advance myself beyond old methods of coping and develop new skill sets which allow diverse approaches towards individual fulfillment and prove success on a daily level.

Goals: (I am not giving all of these in full detail, but you should get the point, also, these goals being specific to me, they may not seem that great - I am posting these as an honest example of what I am doing to help me through this SS of life right now in hopes it assists others. Please do not ask me about specifics, I will not answer - you do yours).
For me:
1. Continue IC to improve understanding R of self in context to R w/ WW, R w/ abusive parent, R w/ S, R w/ anger, and R w/ drug addiction.
2. To apprentice at rock climbing gym to the point of performing a live site climb of an intermediate level rock face.
3. To finish graduate degree in spring 2017 in a way which acknowledges time management, a thing I failed at in the past.
4. To continue management of ADHD and work toward reducing chemical solution and increasing environmental solution.
5. To continue preparing daily activities with my S which are fun, cooperative, and educational on the days that I have him.
6. To live deliberately and get through each day decisively, one day at a time.

For potential R w/ WW:
1. Continue w/ proven 180 & LRT techniques, evaluating them, and changing as necessary.
2. Keep respect & dignity intact by upholding my own boundaries.
3. Listen to her, validate, do not begin arguments, follow the 37, put my hand on my own balls and know they are mine and not in a mason jar on her nightstand - this does not mean be a dk or a-hole.
4. Do not push her away, but let her know I am self-focused and have my own life.

Mileposts for R:
1. I get through more than 2 days without feeling crushed.
2. I must speak the language of action from myself, I must read the language of action from her.
3. She must end the A to begin full recovery of my attention.
4. She must acknowledge her pain and what she is going to do about it.
5. I must stay on this course of action until situation changes or I feel I am not longer able to continue. Plan will be adjusted as necessary.

So no joke, I wrote all of that down. There is more I did not get into, mainly an action plan, but like I said - you do what you like, I said I would reveal this as an example for someone, so here it is. I do not read it on the reg, it may end up a footnote in my own personal history, I am not sure. But, it does help to identify what I want. Will say, notice a clear distinction - the vision is what you want to be in the future, the mission is what you are about, the goals are how you achive the mission and get to the vision, the action hich i did not list is about how you accomplish those goals.
Lets pretend for one minute that the person you truly love most in this world has not been shting on your face for the past few weeks/months/years - doing this exercise is still valuable for your well-being. I offered a model with examples, fill in your own answers, you do not have to write, but at least think about it. Take it a step further and look into it. A marriage is a business partnership as much as it is anything else. Do you want your business to succeed? Do you want your business to be the random "Big Eddie's Sports Cards" on the corner of bumfkegypt and nowhere St. Are you satisfied with a small business. Or do you want it to be like Nike? And, further,...is the business a partnership or a sole proprietor? Get some. Still in the fight.You fight for yourself, victory is assured. Or preferably as my S4 says, "we both win Daddy". Yeah, that little dude loving me, I never loose again.

[ForGump]

3. Listen to her, validate, do not begin arguments, follow the 37, put my hand on my own balls and know they are mine and not in a mason jar on her nightstand - this does not mean be a dk or a-hole.
4. Do not push her away, but let her know I am self-focused and have my own life.

Mileposts for R:
1. I get through more than 2 days without feeling crushed.

I chuckled when I read the mason jar sentence. Glad W didn't ask what I was chuckling about.

"Do not push her away ..." I find that hard to do. I feel like the more I go dim, the more it feels like I'm pushing her away.

"Get through ..." -- that was good to read. That others find it hard to just have one or two decent days in a row.

The hard things for me is that I'm still very physically drawn to my W. And we're still under the same roof. So just seeing her, smelling her as she walks near me ... just a split second of that can dismantle the strength I feel like I've gathered over a couple of days.