Me and Midlife Wife and Midlife II

[CT1118]

Old Thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2699712#Post2699712

My son began Kindergarten today. He was w/ W last night. We all met up this morning to take him to the school and get some pictures, see him off so to speak. As I watched him walk down the hallway with pile of other children to his classroom I felt so proud for him in that moment. Felt like all was at peace, felt like a piece of his solo journey had met some solidity. I will not see him again for three days; he and I will both be good in the meantime.

[job]

So, little man has begun school today. This will be a wonderful experience for him because it will be something new and he'll meet and make some new friends. It will definitely give him something else to think about and also talk about.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Fresh start ?

I wasn't aware that we needed one yet....

I'm not against you in any way. If I were against you, you wouldn't see any of my posts at all on your thread.

I ask about control, because I see it...

I ask about being misunderstood, because I see your defensiveness...

I ask about these things because they typically generate an emotional response if you feel like you are being attacked...

Your relationship with your spouse, is primarily emotional, or at least it should be...

Emotional responses tend to be more of a reaction, rather than a deliberate action.

And that is what most people tend to give to their spouse during the heat of battle....


Control ?

What I see, is that you very much have to feel in control of most things.

In my posts to you, not only did you try to answer my questions, you also told me in what context I was asking, and what the answer would be in each of those. To the extent that you were also telling me how to ask the question. So essentially, you were taking control of the question AND the response...and eventually, the outcome..

By your above definition...that is control..



In your response to Wonka about the 5LL book, you did a very similar task, in which you broke down the author, explained how you felt, came back again, and in my opinion, told her how she should feel about the author, before you closed by minimizing the impact that the book has on this community.


As far as the book ?


Don't stand on that hill too long. It is the context of the book, not the entire content to which we speak.

Knowing your love languages, how you give, how you receive, simply allows YOU to grow...



You admit to being controlling, and you admit to not always recognizing it when it happens...

For now though ? Its a moot point....

What sends the red flags to me, is the defensiveness in which much of that ^^^ occurs....

You seem to think that I am lashing out and attacking you, hence the fresh start offer.

Believe it or not, I am not really here to be a friend. Maybe that will, or maybe it will not happen down the road. I am here to help you see yourself more clearly than you have in the past. YOU asked for help, and I am only giving you feedback according to the information that you have given.

I'm in your corner...

So your choice, we can go further with this...or we agree to disagree about it...

Personally ? I would love to see you walk through this without the pretense of you feeling attacked...

So if you choose....

Maybe think about this for a while....

And then go back and read your responses to me.....see if maybe you see something different this time ....

So, maybe if we are starting fresh...

Why do you feel the need to be in control ???

How important is it to you, to be right ?

Is your opinion more important to you, than opening up and accepting that others have opinions too ?

I remember a tagline that poster had here a while ago, and I am certain that I will misquote it....

A beginner scorns..

A Novice will accept...

The Master says, but of course....


Something else that I see a bit of..

I see you trying to give the perfect answer to each question. I am not looking for that at all. The perfect answer doesn't let me see who you are at all....

And maybe that is a small part that comes across to me as control. And while you may not be trying to control the question, or answer, or direction the thread is taking....

It is the outcome that you seem to be trying to control...

The interpretation is the responsibility of the reader, not the writer....

Maybe it is both....

Maybe I can ask Mr Twain to come back and rewrite Huck Finn, so that it's true meaning can be digested by all, instead of the minority that seem to "get" his sarcasm....????

There's a guy MHL who I think was also named Missherlove at some point? Anyway he made some really great reference points in his story to accompany what all of you has said about time and what it does. There was another one (I clicked off it and now trying to find it again)by a guy named Fisherman or Fishing-something?

What do you want to know ???

The question marks were rhetorical in the statement, so there was no true question. Just to shorten "I just read these really honest stories and hope I am not insulting as I am not remembering their names right". And I am learning from those old threads, but the ones before the 100 comment cap are very challenging to navigate in chronological order.


Fresh start [hand extended].

I asked because I am friends with both outside of here. I talk to Fish once a week or so...

Eric ( the freakin Rican BTW) may be in more contact with MHL than I...

However I could find out any questions you may have for him...

Just a reminder.

[Surfer]

he and I will both be good in the meantime.

Mate. So you [both] will be good when apart, you will be good when together. I read you are good and will always be good. That is bang on!

Great to hear the big man has made it into pre-school a lovely time. Forget the sh!t storm. It will soon be a storm in a tea cup!

Keep going chap! You are doing great! What a rock of a Dad!

Surfer.

[ericmsant2]

My son began Kindergarten today

It was my daughters first day as well. Glad you were able to enjoy it.

Also, I suggest that you take a look at Mach1 post (the one J3B carried over). Some good stuff in there for you to think about.

I saw your response on your last post – pretty good Spanish dude.

Peace,
Eric

[CT1118]

J3B - I did not forget, but do appreciate the stimuls. Very busy and...

Maybe think about this for a while....

Mach1 -
Fresh start was not that I feel you are against me, never thought that. Statement was referring to communication fresh start as I did not want our conversation to descend into experientialism or enigma. I do want the assistance, more on that below.

Knowing your love languages, how you give, how you receive, simply allows YOU to grow...

On chapter 3. Wonka got through.

You seem to think that I am lashing out and attacking you, hence the fresh start offer.

I interpreted the conversation as having assumptions about me, which triggered an antiquated and incorrect coping mechanism in my psyche, not that I was being attacked out of malevolence. It seemed to me like I was being misunderstood. If your assessment, the interpretation is on the reader as you believe, then responsibility for this interpretation lies with me. The time I took in my response made me think I was not responding from an older position of myself, but I was. Not easy to fix things from a position that is broken.

Believe it or not, I am not really here to be a friend. Maybe that will, or maybe it will not happen down the road. I am here to help you see yourself more clearly than you have in the past. YOU asked for help, and I am only giving you feedback according to the information that you have given.

I'm in your corner...

I not only believe all of this, I am hoping for and seeking it. The truth in what you said above and in what I just said may be in and of itself a reason why both of us have stuck through it. IMO such long response to one another neither suggest that either of us are not seeking some level of understanding from one another, nor do they suggest we lazily tapped out a reply from our cell phones (unless both of us have the text dexterity of 17 year old girls and haven't shared that with each other yet.) Believe it or not I am appreciative for this exchange, regardless of how difficult I may have found the crest of it or how difficult I may have come across, if I did come across as difficult that is.

So your choice, we can go further with this...or we agree to disagree about it...

further

Why do you feel the need to be in control ???

Two places - A horrible childhood where I was in control of nothing. It was degrading and cruel. In my teen years, when I finally had some control, I was out of control. I as left alone for weeks alone, parents emancipated me from school so I had legal rights over myself, it was ridiculous; I was never given tools from them to learn control. So that's one, which led to the other - Ego. I got to college and for the first time in my life realized I was very good at something, which was academics (I was always very good at being a musician, but my parents took a dump all over that every chance they had, so I did not realize that until post college when I really ran with it). Anyway, after having almost failed my way out of high school ( a guidance councilor actually told me in my senior year that I would amount to nothing and was head for prison) and doing so well in college, I developed a need to try and defend that feeling of success, it fed ego. I never began to understand any of this until I began work w/ an IC in the winter of '16, I knew a whole lot was wrong with me, I thought it was simply some type of anger complex, until the IC and I began to dig down.

How important is it to you, to be right ?

More than I realize or want it to be. Still working on it. Taking my successes when I don't one day at a time.

Is your opinion more important to you, than opening up and accepting that others have opinions too ?

Depends on how I feel about my role context. As a leader at work, I always put my people and the mission of my agency first, even when my personal opinion suggests I feel otherwise. The result is that I have a staff and senior leadership who do truly show me that they care about me. As a student, I defer to the leadership of my instructors and listen. Share my opinions when discussion makes it appropriate, take no offense to being shot down or guided. I n my personal life outside of those things - my personal history teaches me that I value my own opinion more. Learning how to listen, how take the times when I am willing to, capture that willingness and then contextualize it to other times when I don't want to, is challenging. That said, despite setbacks, I am committed towards creating a permanent change for the better.

Something else that I see a bit of..

I see you trying to give the perfect answer to each question. I am not looking for that at all. The perfect answer doesn't let me see who you are at all....

And maybe that is a small part that comes across to me as control. And while you may not be trying to control the question, or answer, or direction the thread is taking....

It is the outcome that you seem to be trying to control...

This is a completely fair statement and the recognition that this may not be my intention is equally appreciate. I am not sure it is easy for all to understand how greatly an inattentive ADD learning disability affects the human mind. It has taken me months of education to wrap my mind around the fact that I have had a learning disability my whole life and not known it. I do not view it as an excuse for past actions, but more of a way to contextualize my actions; except now I am learning to understand impulses brought on by the ADD and learning tools to reboot before just blurting out the contents of my head. Yet, this is in process; undoing 40 years of a challenged way to view the world and convert it to a different and healthier approach in the past 6 months...I will learn, teach, and train my way to better mind and I will do so in a permanent way; may take work daily, may take work minute by minute, but I will do it. Cannot say yet, but fighting the LD may one day be reflected upon as the greatest personal victory of my life.

Maybe it is both....

Maybe I can ask Mr Twain to come back and rewrite Huck Finn, so that it's true meaning can be digested by all, instead of the minority that seem to "get" his sarcasm....????

We could just ask him to cite the reasons for his thought using APA or Turabian formats and calculate the statistical R-value for his satirical correlations; that should cover it without a full rewrite. touche' on the sarcasm Mach1.

Eric ( the freakin Rican BTW) may be in more contact with MHL than I...

However I could find out any questions you may have for him...

Eric mentioned this to me last night, day before maybe. I grew up next to a PR family and was welcomed into their home as if I were family. Suggest you ask Eric to make you some potato pancakes sometime.

I do really appreciate all the time and effort you have offered me Mach1. As well, the offer above on MHL and fisherman. I am still working through the fisherman thraed and only done a couple posts of MHL. I do not have questions on either of them right now, but will certainly check into your offer in the future if some arise. FWIW, I do hope they are both doing well in this life.

4am comes early, been typing for over an hour [hat tipped respectfully in your direction sir]
Have good night or day, whenever it is you read this.

[CT1118]

PS - thanks to all for the K stuff. Eric, congrats on your daughter too.

On the Spanish - I began teaching son Spanish and German from 1 year. Since spouse and I never conversed in either, son has some mixed up stuff - for example he thinks a beach is called la playa and potatoes are kartoffel. No harm, funny though.
Night MLC forum.

[Mach1]

My son began Kindergarten today. He was w/ W last night. We all met up this morning to take him to the school and get some pictures, see him off so to speak. As I watched him walk down the hallway with pile of other children to his classroom I felt so proud for him in that moment. Felt like all was at peace, felt like a piece of his solo journey had met some solidity. I will not see him again for three days; he and I will both be good in the meantime.

Dayum....when I went to kindergarten, it was only half of a day...

That's some serious schidt for a 5 year old....

Why do you feel the need to be in control ???

Two places - A horrible childhood where I was in control of nothing. It was degrading and cruel. In my teen years, when I finally had some control, I was out of control. I as left alone for weeks alone, parents emancipated me from school so I had legal rights over myself, it was ridiculous; I was never given tools from them to learn control. So that's one, which led to the other - Ego. I got to college and for the first time in my life realized I was very good at something, which was academics (I was always very good at being a musician, but my parents took a dump all over that every chance they had, so I did not realize that until post college when I really ran with it). Anyway, after having almost failed my way out of high school ( a guidance councilor actually told me in my senior year that I would amount to nothing and was head for prison) and doing so well in college, I developed a need to try and defend that feeling of success, it fed ego. I never began to understand any of this until I began work w/ an IC in the winter of '16, I knew a whole lot was wrong with me, I thought it was simply some type of anger complex, until the IC and I began to dig down.

How does that tie into who you were, are, and want to be ?

What goals are you setting for things to be different ?

Just wanting to change isn't conducive to the actual change.

And of course...

How did control issues affect your marriage ?

Better yet, how do you see control issues playing into your life??

How has control, defined WHO you are ?

And let me start this for you.....

From what you have said, I feel as though the whole marriage was about control.

I think that the act of marriage itself, was the control to stop the see-saw affect that the previous on again/off again had been the entire time that you have known each other.

Basically....

If we are married, then the bleeding (on/off) will stop...

Close ???

Is your opinion more important to you, than opening up and accepting that others have opinions too ?

Depends on how I feel about my role context. As a leader at work, I always put my people and the mission of my agency first, even when my personal opinion suggests I feel otherwise. The result is that I have a staff and senior leadership who do truly show me that they care about me. As a student, I defer to the leadership of my instructors and listen. Share my opinions when discussion makes it appropriate, take no offense to being shot down or guided. I n my personal life outside of those things - my personal history teaches me that I value my own opinion more. Learning how to listen, how take the times when I am willing to, capture that willingness and then contextualize it to other times when I don't want to, is challenging. That said, despite setbacks, I am committed towards creating a permanent change for the better.

See below....

Something else that I see a bit of..

I see you trying to give the perfect answer to each question. I am not looking for that at all. The perfect answer doesn't let me see who you are at all....

And maybe that is a small part that comes across to me as control. And while you may not be trying to control the question, or answer, or direction the thread is taking....

It is the outcome that you seem to be trying to control...

This is a completely fair statement and the recognition that this may not be my intention is equally appreciate. I am not sure it is easy for all to understand how greatly an inattentive ADD learning disability affects the human mind. It has taken me months of education to wrap my mind around the fact that I have had a learning disability my whole life and not known it. I do not view it as an excuse for past actions, but more of a way to contextualize my actions; except now I am learning to understand impulses brought on by the ADD and learning tools to reboot before just blurting out the contents of my head. Yet, this is in process; undoing 40 years of a challenged way to view the world and convert it to a different and healthier approach in the past 6 months...I will learn, teach, and train my way to better mind and I will do so in a permanent way; may take work daily, may take work minute by minute, but I will do it. Cannot say yet, but fighting the LD may one day be reflected upon as the greatest personal victory of my life.

Look up a poster....LostforWords

Read him...

Then tell me what you think...

???

Maybe it is both....

Maybe I can ask Mr Twain to come back and rewrite Huck Finn, so that it's true meaning can be digested by all, instead of the minority that seem to "get" his sarcasm....????

We could just ask him to cite the reasons for his thought using APA or Turabian formats and calculate the statistical R-value for his satirical correlations; that should cover it without a full rewrite. touche' on the sarcasm Mach1.

My point, however round the mulberry bush that we go, is that interpretation relies on the reader due to the script being set in stone. Interpretation will ebb and flow, much like life, throughout any perusal of information that we may take.

Example...

The 5LL book. I ALWAYS recommend reading it twice. Usually when a person first gets here, and then again after a few months. The first read tends to be more of a " how I F'ed this up" manual, while the second read is way more insightful into the personal side....how you give, receive, etc...

Same book, two views...



Interpretation is also left to the reader, in order to formulate opinions, and stimulate the imaginary into reality. Not only could I, but I should be able to read the same things as you, yet we reach different arenas.

Another reason I asked about opinions being receptive to you....

In life, yes, you are a leader, a student, a Father...all of those things...

But is that how you define yourself ?

What defines you as being a great leader ?

Student ?

Father ?

How do you separate the roles ?

How do you lead at work as opposed to home ??

Eric ( the freakin Rican BTW) may be in more contact with MHL than I...

However I could find out any questions you may have for him...

Eric mentioned this to me last night, day before maybe. I grew up next to a PR family and was welcomed into their home as if I were family. Suggest you ask Eric to make you some potato pancakes sometime.

You had inquired the other day, when I used the term "freakin Rican"

Eric IS the freakin Rican...

No hidden meaning other than that....

[ericmsant2]

CT

A horrible childhood where I was in control of nothing.

First I can relate. Second, I want you to think about this for a second. 1) What can you really control in life 2) What does control really provide you with and why is that important.?

I was never given tools from them to learn control.

I might assume that you were not given much tools at all. When you say control..do you mean control yourself, your emotions or circumstances surrounding you?

What is it that goes through your mind if you do not feel “right”?

my personal history teaches me that I value my own opinion more.

And why is that? Why the difference between work, school and your personal life? Do you only value intellect, which brings me to my next question. What is it that YOU value and why?

How’s your day going so far?

[CT1118]

Eric/Mach1 -

I will start with Eric's last question - how's my day so far: First part very tiring due to work and some emergency chaos which was preceded by all the tropical storm damage last weekend and responses to that, so catching up with bad sleep and deep evenings studying. Second part, had my son tonight which is always cool.
And do note I will come back to all those questions, but my not make it verbatim - exhausted.

Mach1 - were, are, want to be? Childhood of being shown I was no good combined with the ego of a young man who found success on his own led to me becoming an overachieving professional superstar who grabbed every mentor, teacher, coach, certification, accreditation, volunteer opportunity, networking opportunity, make more more successful moment I could find. The downside part of this was that I was impatient for success, aggressive in character, spoke out of turn, commanding as a leader, knowitall, and defended my professional success and time against against anything which I felt threatened or challenged it. Success in the professional world led to a general belief that I was correct about most things in my personal life. I would lead before I would follow and be damned if I didn't. Now the above is the first 30 years; it all did calm down at some point, but it did not go away. That's who I was. That led to drug addiction, stress, lethargy, and not liking myself very much, if at all. So while it calmed down, it came back with the birth of my son, flashback movies of childhood in my brain, fear I would become my abusers and arguably I got worse than I ever was - I was a drug addict, a poor husband, an inattentive father, and a narcissist - and a socially functional version of all that. So typical for the script: awarding winning professional, loved by all at work and play - failing at home. I could not fix anything from a position where I was broken, but it was from there I had to start.

Who I am - I had to fail to become who I am. I had to crash so I could burn. I had to fall so far behind so that I would become my own leader. There is a beauty in crisis: it sets you free to awaken and aim towards a horizon. I am not where I want to be, but I am on that path. I am a great father now. I am sober (about to be 7 months). I am doing so much for me and in a way that impacts others. I am back in shape, I am taking charge of my health. I am a seeker of methods tools and opportunities to improve myself. I am more honest with myself and others, I am more open to other humans and make an effort to be friendly and engage. I am a great friend to many. I am working on being a better son by paying attention to my parents. I am a better employee, a better leader, a better everything because I am feeling better about me. I am also, most importantly, not finished and have miles to go.

And how it ties to where I want to go? There's positive stuff in who I was. I gave a great deal to my community. I am a sought after expert in what I do for a living. I have a reputation for mentoring and teaching young professionals - I want to keep that, I enjoy being known for that, I want to build that. I know what I don't want and who I don't want to be. Who I am now is helping me identify the positives and negatives of who I was, and this leads to mission and vision. So where do I want to go (day by day). I want to go to a place for myself where I am living my life with honesty. Not hiding things from me or from other people. Being genuine. Being inspirational, not for ego, but because inspiration helps others. I want to know how to love myself and let others in. I want to be permanent. I am getting there, I will get there. And when I do, I will look forward yet again.

Alright - all I got for tonight. Was not even sure I had this much in me and there's a little black dog in my apartment who most likely wants my feet so he has somewhere to rest his head.