Detached, getting along better, but in limbo....

[Surfer]

Thanks Si.

I will read up on these.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

SH,

Thanks for the post.

either or

We either 'think' or 'feel'. Not both.

You feel what could happen? But if it does not you will be okay?

Crikey - I have slept since then....LoL. I feel we could reconcile but if we don't I will be happy. I am happy either way. Really happy. So it's a 'nice to have' - in comparison to what it was (like we all did/do, I felt like my world was falling apart - its not).

What is "it" that you want to be okay and happy if "it" does not happen?

It is reconciliation.

What leads to detachment?

Independence and being personally content and happy.

I did get your point about fear of loss being a product of interdependency, although there are appropriate habits to overcome the fear...which is not real...but created in our own mind.

Agreed.

What choices do you want to make?

1.Continue to remain detached (inc. GAL, not chasing etc)
2.Be the best version of me (inc. communicating effectively and kindly with my W)
3.Continue to be content and happy

Surfer.

[SH_]

Okay surfer...
Hang on now...
Gonna throw some stuff at you and hopefully make some sense in the process.

Keep these points in mind as I go here.

Think or feel- not both
Reconciliation
Happy either way
Detachment is it Independence and being personally content and happy?
Detaching- What is it?
You listed 3 choices you want to make.
1.Continue to remain detached (inc. GAL, not chasing etc)
2.Be the best version of me (inc. communicating effectively and kindly with my W)
3.Continue to be content and happy

Food for thought from SH...

Let me preface my thoughts and feedback for you today surfer.
I read your thread regularly as well as the feedback and advice that you provide to others.
You tend to provide sound feedback...much of it is focused on detaching and self care...easy to say...more challenging to do...you express this in your threads regularly.

I also perceive that much of your advice is posted to the same several DBers, that don't really have the same sitch as yours.
On your thread you share some very challenging situations and you ask many questions about how to handle this that or the other and you express your frustrations and ask for feedback.
Your tend to get feedback from the same that you share feedback with.

Now, I do not provide these observations to say that you are doing things wrong or in any manner of judgment...I do so to hopefully share some pointers that can aid you in picking up feedback and thoughts that can guide you specific to what you are dealing with and to provide food for thought to making progress with the points that you bring up regularly in your journaling and questions for assistance.

Not a 2x4, but hopefully a forceful nudge to help you with some momentum.

Let me reiterate, you seem to be on the right track more often than not and that I see around here as receiving less attention from many than those situations that seem wildly out of control, so there is that. You also seem very upbeat and with a good PMA, also a sound foundation. I don't him in much due to this.

So here are some thoughts and pointers that may help you get that momentum going.

1. Seek out some other DB posters that may have situations similar to yours. Post support and ask questions. Look for some vets as well as newbies. Value in your involvement with both.
1a. Seek out DB posters that are solution focused. This is where you will find most valuable, actionable ideas, learning material and challenges to yourself for goals and actions. This is the group that saved me as my particular sitch seems very rare in the community. WAW without OP.

You will find more active responses to your questions as well as insights and thoughts that can help you answer your questions.

Now lets review this detachment thing that you share with others and seems frustrated with as it relates to your own sitch.

I see a theme with you.
You speak of detachment as if it is an outcome, or place that can keep you from "feelings" when it comes to your WW...
What I don't see is the actions that you are taking to achieve said detachment.

Some thoughts.
Lets use the term "Detaching" in place of "Detached"

Detached sounds as if it is a destination or a final state. It can even sound as if it is past tense. LOL.
This is not the goal, and in the psychology world, being emotionally detached is considered a poor emotional state from poor emotional habits. Many LBS could be counted as emotionally detached from their MR and or spouse before the BD. This is not healthy, nor the goal when detach is mentioned here or by MWD in DB/DR.

This is more important than many seem to understand...detach is a loose term thrown around here often and is more about getting to a place of numbness or an "I don't give a sh!# anymore!" so the pain of it all can stop.

Now, using the term "Detaching" or practicing "Detachment", this gives the sound of an action...and action that one must make daily. One must choose to practice detachment or take action in the art of detaching.
Detaching is a choice...it comes through practice and daily habit. But like anything else in this life, if we create good habits, we benefit from them.

I was watching a talk by Matthieu Ricard, he works with the Dalai Lama, and he was asked if the Dalai Lama ever got mad or sad. Matthieu Ricard, responded, that of course he does, but that through his habits of meditation he understands how to process the emotions and stay focused on the big goals.
This is what detaching looks like. The emotions are still there, the way the feelings are processed is the key...we struggle, because of bad habits...detaching is the act of making good habits through choice...not luck...not time...not anger...and certainly not by just waiting around and hoping that we become "detached".

Are you keeping up with me here?
Deep breath before reading on if you are.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So lets wrap this up with the points I asked you to remember.

Think or feel- not both
Actually thinking can benefit your feelings.
Emotions are the bodies physical responses to things around us, feelings are how we process these emotions.
I.E. your WW makes an irrational decision and blames you for something. Your body feels an emotion...blood pressure rises, through tightens, hair stands up on your neck...your then react...or respond...how you think this through in that moment, and better yet, how you think it through before this situation will in fact be key to detaching.
Make sense?

Reconciliation
Am I missing something in your sitch?
Is this on the table?
I think that you may not want to think of this or worry about this now.
You have many more bridges to cross before this can be thought about.
It would be in your best interest to moe this aside and stay focused on you being the person only a fool would leave.
Just my 2c

Happy either way
Dam right! How you focus on you now will dictate this.
Also, think of being happy the same as detaching.
It is your choice and through good habits, you will feel happy.

Detachment is it Independence and being personally content and happy?
Not really. See above
Being content and happy can be achieved on its own.
Detaching is about our interconnected relationships with others.
Being independent and happy really should not be connected to being detached.

Detaching- What is it?
Discussed in detail above.

You listed 3 choices you want to make.
1.Continue to remain detached (inc. GAL, not chasing etc)
2.Be the best version of me (inc. communicating effectively and kindly with my W)
3.Continue to be content and happy

2 of these are attached to your W?
Why is that?
Lets try choices or goals that are independent of her all together.
Lets see if that can not help with some momentum as well.

Now, surfer, I am not expert at DBing...
My sitch is very much different than yours, so I am cautious to share advice specific to what you are dealing with.
The thoughts I share here are independent of MR at this point as I am learning, that many more of us, should have learned to love ourselves first, be content taking care of ourselves, and then found partners that are the same in this aspect. Maybe we would not be in our situations if we had.

Much of what I share is part of my own journey, so please take it for what it is and not necessarily some perfect law or rule. I am still learning much and try to share where I can.

I see much potential in you, and just felt that I might be able to give you a little shoulder check to rattle things up for you to take a step in the direction that you continue to speak of.

Have a wonderful night and I will swing by later tomorrow to read your thoughts.

[Surfer]

SH,

Really appreciate this. It's very generous of you to spend this amount of time to review my position. Very kind. Thank you. Now...

Are you keeping up with me here?

Yes. Get it all. For clarity I have and do use some techniques myself that mirror this. Lots of Mindfulness training (and I mean lots), less now but still regular - exercise is 100% my main way to cope with frustrations however. Albeit this can be temporary so between mindfulness and exercise I get what I need. Also, I did a course for say 18 months by another similar person to MWD. Also read his books but in particular listened to hours and hours (days/weeks more likely) of podcasts on how to cope. One of the things that really helped was learning to detach from spew - not the whole shooting match in terms of detachment by any means but, an important part of it. I am the guy that can stand with the Sergeant Majors spit splattering on my face as he spews now. I would not even blink.

I have work to do on detachment still but I feel I am getting there - I see definite progress. I just need to focus on kind warm feelings too which is tricky with a WW. But its a balance.

Sorry I have to break this down.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

Think or feel- not both

I get this. You are right. The DL does this I guess. Processing how he thinks to structure how he feels. Thanks for this. It's insightful stuff. I am going to work on this.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

Okay surfer...
Hang on now...
Gonna throw some stuff at you and hopefully make some sense in the process.

Keep these points in mind as I go here.

Think or feel- not both
Reconciliation
Happy either way
Detachment is it Independence and being personally content and happy?
Detaching- What is it?
You listed 3 choices you want to make.
1.Continue to remain detached (inc. GAL, not chasing etc)
2.Be the best version of me (inc. communicating effectively and kindly with my W)
3.Continue to be content and happy

Food for thought from SH...

Let me preface my thoughts and feedback for you today surfer.
I read your thread regularly as well as the feedback and advice that you provide to others.
You tend to provide sound feedback...much of it is focused on detaching and self care...easy to say...more challenging to do...you express this in your threads regularly.

I also perceive that much of your advice is posted to the same several DBers, that don't really have the same sitch as yours.
On your thread you share some very challenging situations and you ask many questions about how to handle this that or the other and you express your frustrations and ask for feedback.
Your tend to get feedback from the same that you share feedback with.

Now, I do not provide these observations to say that you are doing things wrong or in any manner of judgment...I do so to hopefully share some pointers that can aid you in picking up feedback and thoughts that can guide you specific to what you are dealing with and to provide food for thought to making progress with the points that you bring up regularly in your journaling and questions for assistance.

Not a 2x4, but hopefully a forceful nudge to help you with some momentum.

Let me reiterate, you seem to be on the right track more often than not and that I see around here as receiving less attention from many than those situations that seem wildly out of control, so there is that. You also seem very upbeat and with a good PMA, also a sound foundation. I don't him in much due to this.

So here are some thoughts and pointers that may help you get that momentum going.

1. Seek out some other DB posters that may have situations similar to yours. Post support and ask questions. Look for some vets as well as newbies. Value in your involvement with both.
1a. Seek out DB posters that are solution focused. This is where you will find most valuable, actionable ideas, learning material and challenges to yourself for goals and actions. This is the group that saved me as my particular sitch seems very rare in the community. WAW without OP.

You will find more active responses to your questions as well as insights and thoughts that can help you answer your questions.

Now lets review this detachment thing that you share with others and seems frustrated with as it relates to your own sitch.

I see a theme with you.
You speak of detachment as if it is an outcome, or place that can keep you from "feelings" when it comes to your WW...
What I don't see is the actions that you are taking to achieve said detachment.

Some thoughts.
Lets use the term "Detaching" in place of "Detached"

Detached sounds as if it is a destination or a final state. It can even sound as if it is past tense. LOL.
This is not the goal, and in the psychology world, being emotionally detached is considered a poor emotional state from poor emotional habits. Many LBS could be counted as emotionally detached from their MR and or spouse before the BD. This is not healthy, nor the goal when detach is mentioned here or by MWD in DB/DR.

This is more important than many seem to understand...detach is a loose term thrown around here often and is more about getting to a place of numbness or an "I don't give a sh!# anymore!" so the pain of it all can stop.

Now, using the term "Detaching" or practicing "Detachment", this gives the sound of an action...and action that one must make daily. One must choose to practice detachment or take action in the art of detaching.
Detaching is a choice...it comes through practice and daily habit. But like anything else in this life, if we create good habits, we benefit from them.

I was watching a talk by Matthieu Ricard, he works with the Dalai Lama, and he was asked if the Dalai Lama ever got mad or sad. Matthieu Ricard, responded, that of course he does, but that through his habits of meditation he understands how to process the emotions and stay focused on the big goals.
This is what detaching looks like. The emotions are still there, the way the feelings are processed is the key...we struggle, because of bad habits...detaching is the act of making good habits through choice...not luck...not time...not anger...and certainly not by just waiting around and hoping that we become "detached".

Are you keeping up with me here?
Deep breath before reading on if you are.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So lets wrap this up with the points I asked you to remember.

Think or feel- not both
Actually thinking can benefit your feelings.
Emotions are the bodies physical responses to things around us, feelings are how we process these emotions.
I.E. your WW makes an irrational decision and blames you for something. Your body feels an emotion...blood pressure rises, through tightens, hair stands up on your neck...your then react...or respond...how you think this through in that moment, and better yet, how you think it through before this situation will in fact be key to detaching.
Make sense?

Reconciliation
Am I missing something in your sitch?
Is this on the table?
I think that you may not want to think of this or worry about this now.
You have many more bridges to cross before this can be thought about.
It would be in your best interest to moe this aside and stay focused on you being the person only a fool would leave.
Just my 2c

Happy either way
Dam right! How you focus on you now will dictate this.
Also, think of being happy the same as detaching.
It is your choice and through good habits, you will feel happy.

Detachment is it Independence and being personally content and happy?
Not really. See above
Being content and happy can be achieved on its own.
Detaching is about our interconnected relationships with others.
Being independent and happy really should not be connected to being detached.

Detaching- What is it?
Discussed in detail above.

You listed 3 choices you want to make.
1.Continue to remain detached (inc. GAL, not chasing etc)
2.Be the best version of me (inc. communicating effectively and kindly with my W)
3.Continue to be content and happy

2 of these are attached to your W?
Why is that?
Lets try choices or goals that are independent of her all together.
Lets see if that can not help with some momentum as well.

Now, surfer, I am not expert at DBing...
My sitch is very much different than yours, so I am cautious to share advice specific to what you are dealing with.
The thoughts I share here are independent of MR at this point as I am learning, that many more of us, should have learned to love ourselves first, be content taking care of ourselves, and then found partners that are the same in this aspect. Maybe we would not be in our situations if we had.

Much of what I share is part of my own journey, so please take it for what it is and not necessarily some perfect law or rule. I am still learning much and try to share where I can.

I see much potential in you, and just felt that I might be able to give you a little shoulder check to rattle things up for you to take a step in the direction that you continue to speak of.

Have a wonderful night and I will swing by later tomorrow to read your thoughts.

Agreed. It's too far away. It may never happen. I need to put that aside and focus on more immediate goals with that being a potential long term goal. I think I do already work like this but I am only starting to - in truth.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

Ah the last one was on your reconciliation points! I messed up the 'quote'.

[Surfer]

Happy either way - Dam right!

Glad I am getting this right. I will stick to working on my GAL and happiness and that of the kids. It's working.

Thanks.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

Detachment - process the emotions and stay focused on the big goals. This is what detaching looks like.

I like this reference - its kind of 'stay sufficiently focussed not to let the actions or works of others to move you from your longer terms goals'. That I like - I can make it work with my stoic immovable side whilst employing gentle, kindness. I see your point on happiness being a separate matter also and agree.

Thank you.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

SH

Goals - how about:

1 - To continue detaching
2 - To be the best version of me
3 - To create boundaries where necessary - which have consequences (this is tricky for my BTW)
4 - GAL

I have some other struggles you will have read. I really feel some anguish as it is my opinion that my W will only feel financial and custodial consequences at the moment (she is checked out still but we get the odd glimmer - which may mean nothing and I need to observe this only). What I mean is she is just trotting along nicely and has not consequences as such. I think in part a tougher stance might work as me just playing nice or being dark is not doing much. I am at a loss what to do. You will seem comments on separation agreements etc. I would appreciate advice here. Been reading Crimson's story recently PsySara put me on to it. There are some similarities here.

Thanks again.

Surfer.