Leaving Castle Caladan

[Painter]

WH has hired a L that only takes on uncontested Ds. He has stated to the L that I have agreed to waive service for the D papers.

The reality is that I told WH that if he filed for an uncontested D, I would counterfile on grounds (contested). We never even discussed waiving service.

Fantasyland, pop. ∞

[Painter]

That was supposed to be the infinity symbol. Didn't work.

[doodler]

Any insight on the claiming that the divorce was agreed upon or initiated by LBS is very much appreciated!

Wayward spouses are irrational.

[Zues126]

Agreed with doodler on this one. J, I don't have any advice on how to deal with their delusions other than to keep walking away and detaching. As long as we cling to the desire for them to see things our way, understand the damage they've done, regret their decisions, etc, it just hurts ourselves.

Something else is on my mind. I think relationships are impossible the way most people seem to want to go about them. It is similar to my impatience at times with the DB fixation on growth.

It's like there's an idea that if we grow, learn proper boundaries, learn to express ourselves, control our own happiness, maintain our own friends network, overcome our additions and compulsions, avoid co-dependencies, give people chances but trust our guts, date enough people and learn from our failures, clarify our expectations and deal breakers and stand up for them boldly, value ourselves, fill our own life but be open to committing time to others, be giving but not taken advantage of, have standards but not unrealistic expectations, join the right dating sites or the right singles activities, see an IC so we don't recreate FOO issues, then psychoanalyze our potential partners so they don't either, teach people how to treat us without trying to change others or deny they are who they show us they are, and on and on and on...then we will be able to find the right partner and maintain a healthy relationship.

Where I come from they call this 'analysis paralysis'. It's simply too much to calculate. It's like trying to throw a crumpled up newspaper in the waste bucket and solve for air resistance, gravity, humidity, and all of that...it's impossible. But if you just throw it in the bucket it goes in. It's like when the toad asked the centipede which leg it lifted first when it walked, and suddenly the creature could no longer move.

My feelings are this doesn't work. I don't believe it works. It doesn't look like it works.

It all looks really good on paper. Hey, if we could really do all of that and execute that plan perfectly, how could it not? But as the saying goes, "There is no difference between theory and practice- IN THEORY- but there is in practice".

Am I saying we shouldn't have boundaries? We should allow ourselves to be mistreated? We should take the path of least resistance and make decisions that are bad for us? That growth and conscientiousness is worse than ignorance and laziness? NO!

But the opposite of over-analysis isn't necessarily making all of the mistakes that we're frantically trying to avoid. It is simply letting go of the control a little bit, relaxing our white knuckle grip in the way we try to force the universe to give us what we want.

My hunch is that the analytical/logical/rational part of our brain is incapable of navigating through a relationship. We are all smart, these forums weed out the illiterate. And we can easily feel like we are smart enough to 'solve the puzzle'. I don't think we are. I don't think we can.

I think what would work is if people didn't give control of the steering wheel of their lives to their rational brain. If instead of trying to lead, they tried to FOLLOW. Christians believe they make trouble in their life when they try to control their own lives, exert their own will. Instead they try to turn their lives to God, that His will be done. They hit bottom when they try to do it all themselves, it's considered almost sacrilegious, like the Devil is tempting them to put ourselves higher than God, because we know better and can do better for ourselves than He can. When the truth is that we do better when we follow the lead of what the spiritual leaders tell us to do. Which is actually pretty simple. Love our neighbors, serve our community and our parents and our spouses, etc. No where in there does it say to control everything.

I'm not particularly religious, but I believe things worked that way for a long time for a reason. I don't think we can serve ourselves and make it all work. I think as long as people make themselves their own God in their lives they will fail. That the only way relationships will work is if both people put the relationship ahead of themselves. In the Church, marriages can work if both people put God ahead of themselves, and serve the other the way God would have them serve Him. Well, that can't happen when we immediately say "yeah, but only if it fits the parameters of this 14 book series I've written for myself about how relationships in my life have to be..."

So if we all just let go, stayed with one partner, strove hard every day to let go of the resentment that comes from expectations, and instead served them to the best of our ability and appreciated what they gave in return...if this was our culture, if this is what we learned and taught and the lead we followed...I think relationships could work.

But we think we have it all figured out now. We are going to get what we want, because there's a way if we just figure it all out, because we deserve it, and we are too smart to accept less, that's for suckers. And in thinking this we as a culture have turned marriage into an endangered species, yet we think the answer is going further down the same road.

This is why I don't feel safe in a relationship. While I'm a champion, in a relationship I'm on a team, and I'm only as good as my partner, and everyone seems to think this way and it simply won't work.

OK. It's out. I'm good now.

I'm not saying I'm right on this guys. I just needed to get my thoughts and feelings out. I love and respect all of you, and wish you all the best. The intentions are all positive, and, as I said, we are so conditioned to this way of thinking that individually all of our goals and boundaries and everything looks so natural and positive. Hey, maybe you are all right, you will all find lasting happy relationships this way. I hope you all do.

As for me, I'll take care of my kids, keep doing my job, and when I'm free I'll just shoot balls into pockets. Somehow that makes sense to me.

PS- after 7 consecutive draws Sergey Karjakin won game 8 of the chess world championships with the black pieces! I caught the end of the game with my kids and it was super exciting. Only a maximum of 4 games left, Magnus Carlsen needs to find a win with white quickly or he loses the title. Life is good

[Painter]

Always, always so interesting to read your thoughts.

[SunnyB]

Zues, just stopping by to say hello. I'm happy you continue to post, to share a glimpse into your life and your journey, to use these wise people as a sounding board for your evolving thoughts. I hope your Thanksgiving was a wonderful celebration of all the good in your life.

[Zues126]

Hello to you too Sunny! I had a non-eventful holiday but that was perfectly fine with me.

Sunday was a strange day. I had a bit of a fallout with my mother. For those that don't know she moved in with me at the beginning of summer.

Well, she's not a fan of XW, in fact she is pretty disgusted by her behavior over the last few years. There have been a few times in which she's made comments around the children that were critical of XW. Those of course made it back to XW, and XW has brought it up to me angrily.

I have always operated with a zero tolerance for any type of behavior that could be looked at unfavorably in terms of how I've handled the divorce. Partly so I could laugh off any criticism from XW knowing I've executed perfectly and at the guidance of my team of professionals. Partly as I didn't want there to be any mud XW could sling at me when we were mediating with social services so I could achieve the 50% parental time which I got. Partly because I want as much emotional distance from XW as possible and reacting to her behavior is more power than I choose to give her. And of course as it is better for the children if their parents can have at least a functional relationship.

Our current status is that we are like two hostile nations during a time of peace. There is no love between us, but we aren't at war either. We swap days with the kids when it benefits them, or flex a bit as favors to each other now and then. This is important to me, and I'm not prepared to do anything that could break this peace or escalate into a situation in which we go to war with the children in the middle of a battlefield.

So when my mother's comments were first brought to my attention I took it very seriously. In my mind this was black mark number one on my household's track record of perfect performance. I talked to my mom about it and she said she'd make a point not to let that happen again. Well, a few weeks later it did, my XW was really upset and she addressed it with both me and my mother directly. I had a long talk with my mom. I was upset and made it clear this could simply not continue. She seemed surprised that the comments she made had been interpreted critically but just said that she wouldn't talk about XW at all in any way with the kids around. I said that was just fine and trusted she could handle the situation going forward.

Well, it happened again. XW sent me screenshots of a facebook post that my mother had written. No details needed, but it was very critical and judgmental of XW.

I lost my temper with my mother. I told her I lost any trust I had that she could manage this situation, that I felt she simply didn't have the tools to be able to monitor what she said and did. I told her that it was absolutely impossible that I could allow this to happen again, to the point she could simply not be part of my household if she couldn't put a stop to this.

I guess I had expected her to just 'get it' and put an end to it, so I was surprised by her reaction. My mother said that she was free to post on her private facebook page to her friends what she wanted to post (while I was thinking it wasn't private enough if XW could screen shot it an hour later), and that she couldn't live with me either if at any moment XW could send me a nasty email that could threaten her existence within my family unit. She said she'd leave right then and there, and did.

Afterwards I tried to cool down. I was upset, but I was still pretty convinced I was right. I mean, I hear about mother in laws that have a scathing tongue in a marriage. If I was still married I wouldn't stand by and allow that abuse of my wife. Well, we aren't married, but still, she's the mother of my children, and I am not prepared to harbor someone that is being blatantly and continuously disrespectful towards her. But I also know that it's not black and white, and that I had brought it up in a pretty confrontational and non-negotiable way, and that things were at a critical turning point. If my mom moved out it would change my life, hers, the children's, and all of our relationships going forward permanently.

So I emailed my mom, told her I loved her, thanked her for what she'd done for me and the family, and mentioned that I still had one therapy session left with my DB Coach, and that I'd be willing to share that with her and have a joint call. I wanted to have a safe place to reconnect, talk it through, and get some professional guidance on how we could minimize this issue and best plan our road forward whether she continued to stay with me or not. She told me this was fine so I scheduled the call. Fortunately it was available on Tuesday.

Tuesday came and we had our call. We almost talked it out without any input from the counselor, but her presence definitely helped. We started by us both telling each other we loved each other, apologizing, her for her comments, me for losing my temper. We both validated each other and understood the concerns, hers about the situation with XW, and me understanding that she couldn't live in fear of XW bus driving her at any moment and her having no voice.

My mom went on to say that she brought her own problems and baggage, and some things XW did really triggered her, and she couldn't promise that nothing would ever be said or done again, and that she couldn't live in perpetual fear of another fallout, and would rather stay elsewhere.

In the end what I brought to the table was two major concessions. First of all, I told her that I knew I was a perfectionist, and that I could learn to live with a level less than perfection. I told her that it was odd for me, because for whatever reason I have a switch in my head that I can just flip to where I will NEVER do or say anything inflammatory to ex, so I didn't understand before that this could be a true challenge to someone else. But in the end that while it wasn't ideal to have the kids hear her make occasional snide comments, or to have her criticisms of XW make it back to her, it didn't have to be all or nothing. That if it was something that didn't come up much, and when it did if it was something that really didn't impact the kids and was mostly between XW and her, well, it wasn't ideal, but it could be managed. That I wouldn't allow my perfectionism in this one area create a circumstance that would interfere with my relationship with her or her relationship with her grandchildren, much less our living arrangements. Second, I offered a formal process to handle future accusations. Namely that if XW brought any further concerns to me, I wouldn't even bring them up with my mom on my own. That I'd immediately schedule another counselling session for the three of us so that we could discuss it in a safe place, with professional guidance. That way she could have a voice, and I'd be guided by someone that could look out for the entire family inclusive of XW, children, me, and my mom. And that this counselor could be a resource, even if at some point we needed to loop XW in on these conversations.

In the end we agreed. She understands this is foundationally important to me and is increasing her awareness and discretion. And she feels appreciative of knowing she has representation so my XW can't just pick a fight that will get her in trouble unilaterally.

She moved back in today and we had a great day. We hugged, settled in, and watched the decision day between Magnus Carlsen and Sergey Karjakin. The chess world championship had been tied at 6-6 after 12 games, so today it went to the playoffs, someone would be crowned. It was intense, and Magnus held up and successfully defended his championship, winning 3-1 in the rapid playoffs. Now we're relaxing a bit, and will probably watch some netflix show and grab some take out later.

Wow. I actually had some other stuff on my mind that I wanted to get out, but I can't seem to start a post without breaking 10K characters. OK. I'll end on this topic. In reflection though I feel pretty solid about how I handled everything. I'm not thrilled I lost my temper, but I'm not too critical of myself either. I no longer live in fear that I'm abusive if I get mad and know that in general I make intensity my ally and it does me a lot of good. Furthermore I deescalated the situation as quickly as I could and handled it fairly deftly. I stood up for my family and was prepared to make hard decisions to protect my children, but also kept the big picture in mind and enlisted the resources needed to make it easier for us to work through things. They say how you handle mistakes is as important as not making any, because mistakes are inevitable, and working through them is just as important, and that's what I feel happened.

So, not perfect, but functional. More and more I'm learning that's good enough for me.

OK DB'ers, that's enough for now, but be very afraid of the length of the next post!

[doodler]

Zues,

Something in my little doodler brain says that somethin' ain't right. Your mom has an opinion about your xW and she posts her opinion on Facebook. Your xW doesn't like your mom's opinion. So what? It's your xW's issue, not yours.

Maybe it's just me, and maybe I'm an outlier, but if my xW complained about something my mom posted on the internet, I'd tell my xW to print it out on some good quality paper and stuff it up her @ss. Problem solved.

[Ginger1]

I agree with Doodler. My dad and stepmother HATE my ex, to this day, almost 9 years later. They will never forgive him. The only boundary I have there is that they never badmouth him or OWW in front of my D9. And they never do. I do ask that when we are all together in the same area which happens like once a year, that they say "hi" back to not make things uncomfortable for my D. They agree.

Your mom should never bad mouth her to the kids. Agreed on that 100%. But she is right, what she choses to say on her FB about the woman who hurt HER child, is her business. It's between the two of them. I don't know why your ex is coming to you instead of your mother if she wants this taken care of. If she doesn't like it, she can confront your mother. But for you, as not her husband anymore, as long as it does not involve the kids, it is not your job or your place to get in the middle of that.

In the beginning, I had to physically hold my dad back from attacking my ex. For real. And I had to put myself in his shoes. A man destroyed the family of HIS daughter and his GRANDAUGHTER.

I honestly could only hope that my ex would WANT to kick the ass of any man who does to his daughter, what he did to us, quite honestly.

My point is though, what is between your mother and your ex is between them. As long as your kids aren't dragged into it.

[Ginger1]

And I am curious, what does your perfectionistic ways have to do with your mother and her choices?

Why are you scheduling counseling sessions between the TRHEE of you if it comes up again? I am lost. You are not their mediator.

You have choices. You can't live with your mom if she says negative things about your W on FB, then you don't. If she can't live in the fear of a fallout in case she does something she can't promise not to do, then she moves out. Both need to be aware of the consequences of that.

You have a choice to ignore your xw when she comes with you with complaints. You can tell them to handle it WITHOUT you.

I think your intentions of the 3 of you dealing with this ina counseling session if it happens again are not bad. But what it really is trying to control the situation and the choices of others. And we know where that gets us........