Zues, tricky situation and you have done a fantastic job dealing with it so far. I am a little surprised at your mother's hard line on this. She's an adult and she should be able to control her outbursts or statements. I can understand the second instance if she really didn't get how something could be construed negatively, but she should understand that if she otherwise makes negative statements, anything she says will be scrutinized and seen in that light.
Your mother needs to put your children first. Her Facebook page is obviously not set to private since Ex could read it - which means the kids could somehow come across it. Go over the privacy settings with her. And tell her it's like nude photos. Once they exist, anyone can send it anywhere. Nothing is private on the internet.
Negative statements about the children's other parent is actually parental alienation. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, and I think your mother is wrong here and needs education on how this affects the children. When she criticizes their mother, she also criticizes them because they are half their mother. They have no way of defending themselves. Maybe your mother needs to read a book about PAS, partly to get tools for how to deal with the things Ex does that she disagrees with.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
My DB coach told me there are 4 steps. 1) let the dust settle, 2) form a new relationship that's NOT a marriage but instead a good co-parenting partnership based on autonomy, good will, and respect, 3) romance, 4) reconciliation. Basically it's a win to get to step two. Not every divorced couple does. And if I do, there is no going to step 3 without a LOT of time spent rebuilding trust and showcasing changes that I MUST make. Of course, there are no guarantees that it will go beyond step 2. But if it did that is the road.
Zues,
I'm reading through your old threads and what you wrote above really interested me. What do you think of this initial advice? A lot of folks here say to avoid the friend zone #2 and stick to a "I want to be a H not a friend" strategy.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
My DB coach told me there are 4 steps. 1) let the dust settle, 2) form a new relationship that's NOT a marriage but instead a good co-parenting partnership based on autonomy, good will, and respect, 3) romance, 4) reconciliation. Basically it's a win to get to step two. Not every divorced couple does. And if I do, there is no going to step 3 without a LOT of time spent rebuilding trust and showcasing changes that I MUST make. Of course, there are no guarantees that it will go beyond step 2. But if it did that is the road.
Zues,
I'm reading through your old threads and what you wrote above really interested me. What do you think of this initial advice? A lot of folks here say to avoid the friend zone #2 and stick to a "I want to be a H not a friend" strategy.
Welcome to the boards Gordie. I'm sorry you are in this situation but you won't find a better support group.
I'm glad you're reading through my threads. I'm a bit surprised you stumbled on mine out of the masses, but I think my story could be helpful. Not so much in what I did, but the breakthroughs I had along the way. Anyway, we can talk about that or not another time. On to your question.
First off, this was advice from my DB coach. She is no longer on the staff, but I trust her implicitly. She has helped thousands of people through this situation and was a true expert. She helped me more than I can express, and through some serious adversity. Having her guide me through some of life's most difficult challenges was invaluable both because I could act on the experience of a seasoned professional instead of my emotionally wrecked self, and also because I got to sleep like a baby without second guessing whether I did the right thing. If it is in any way possible please get a DB coach. But while this is a mini DB coach pitch, my main point is that even if I disagreed with this advice, I would defer to her opinion over mine.
As it happens, I do agree with these stages- HOWEVER, I have a different view now on what those stages mean:
Let the dust settle: This takes longer than I expected. I was thinking a few days or weeks, or maybe a month or two to calm down. Like counting to 10 after an argument. For me, it took much, much longer to truly let the dust settle. I am not angry at XW anymore. I don't know when this happened, but it was probably closer to the 2 year mark than the 2 month mark. This doesn't mean that you have to follow my timelines, and the good news is I don't think the steps are absolutely linear. I believe I started working on step two fairly soon. So for me there was some overlap. But ok, the main point is letting the high emotions calm down so there isn't any major co-dependency and reacting to each other, trying to provoke reactions, make power plays, hurt each other, cries for attention, and all of these types of things. Just relaxing and letting them go a bit. Detaching as they say.
Establishing a new relationship based on good co-parenting and respect of their autonomy: Here's what you were really asking about. My comment would be- it says nothing about friendship. For me, my new relationship with XW is strictly professional. We are NOT friends- but that doesn't mean that we are enemies. She can trust me. I respond to her messages. I validate what she tells me. I treat her respectfully. I follow through on my promises. I hear her voice and make it a priority to consider her input. When possible we make decisions about our children cooperatively. Where we couldn't and had to involve social services and lawyers I let them do the negotiating and stood firm on my boundaries without taking differences personally. I am always punctual with kid pick ups and drop offs and have never inconvenienced her. I don't speak badly about her to the children. I don't take it personally when she villainizes me or spews venom, or does any of the other things I have tried not to because I understand it's not an easy standard to live up to. All in all, I'm SOLID, RELIABLE, and TRUSTWORTHY.
Now, we don't make small talk, we don't spend time together, we don't share inside jokes, I don't keep her involved in my life. We don't have a friendship. Yet, as time passes and her current love of her life fades, as seasons change, the day may come that I've been quietly and strongly leading our family through a dark time while she was in crisis. I imagine it would be like a teenage girl that goes through a phase of hating her dad, then growing up and realizing she was kind of a brat and he's always been there for her, and while he's human and has his flaws, he's actually a pretty good guy. I think that's the kind of stability I have demonstrated. I don't expect that day to come, I made peace with that and I stopped spending energy on what would happen if it did long ago.
I will add a couple of finer points. My DB coach did want me to be more friendly than this initially. She had suggested inviting her to join me with the children for some family time, things like this. She had mentioned that it was possible for step 2 to be more like a friendship than the relationship I just described. This wasn't possible for me for a few reasons. First of all, I couldn't handle that. I simply have zero interest in being close to the person she chose to be, someone who adapts views towards marriage, family and life that I consider absolutely destructive. Secondly, she was actively with a number of other men, and it was a boundary for me to not be emotionally connected with her when she was sleeping with other guys and bad mouthing me to them in what was our marital bed. Finally, she was untrustworthy, was doing unethical things to gain financially and try to gain full custody over my wishes. I had to protect myself and watch my back.
So to sum up, I think there's a spectrum. On one end of the spectrum is a friendship that would border on what most would consider 'cake-eating'. In the middle there's the relationship I have, quiet, calm, consistent, mature, and honorable. On the other end is reacting emotionally, possessively, punitively, jealously, resentfully, and just immaturely and irresponsibly. I think that you start at the friendly end of the spectrum but with clear boundaries in place, then move towards the middle as needed to protect yourself and based on her behavior. But you never cross the line yourself onto the dark side yourself. Always act in a way that will allow you to look in the mirror and feel good about who you are. Then you'll know that you did everything you could to stand by and save your marriage. You may end up divorced, you may not, but either way you won't be burdened with guilt and doubt about the way you handled it.
Post often and get a DB coach. Hope to hear from you again. We're all here for you.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
So to sum up, I think there's a spectrum. On one end of the spectrum is a friendship that would border on what most would consider 'cake-eating'. In the middle there's the relationship I have, quiet, calm, consistent, mature, and honorable. On the other end is reacting emotionally, possessively, punitively, jealously, resentfully, and just immaturely and irresponsibly. I think that you start at the friendly end of the spectrum but with clear boundaries in place, then move towards the middle as needed to protect yourself and based on her behavior. But you never cross the line yourself onto the dark side yourself. Always act in a way that will allow you to look in the mirror and feel good about who you are. Then you'll know that you did everything you could to stand by and save your marriage. You may end up divorced, you may not, but either way you won't be burdened with guilt and doubt about the way you handled it.
Post often and get a DB coach. Hope to hear from you again. We're all here for you.
Zues,
Thank you so much. This is very helpful. While our situations are different, I read yours because I could hear my W's voice in some of your W's complaints. You were also very forthcoming with how your thinking evolved over time and that too was helpful.
Yes, the plan is to start on the friendly end of the spectrum and see what happens from there. And yes, I have a DB coach, who also suggested this approach.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
