Hey Zues, just stopping by to let you know I thinking about you. I'm hoping that your radio silence is because you are enjoying time with your children, some time for pool and generally making moves forward. I know there are other pressures upon you, and I am sending you all the love and light I have so you are protected and comforted on this part of your journey. Be well and happy my friend. Much Love JellyBxxx
Thanks for your patience Jelly, Sunny, DB gang. I'm sure you've seen I've posted a few times, just kind of moseying along.
(Thoughts on my mind) I have posted a bit but I guess I haven't talked about my situation. I think the reason is that I feel more and more detached from the details of my own life. It seems like it hardly matters anymore. I will update the details, but I've been existing in the space between.
What I mean is this. I was thinking about how much space is in the Universe. And I was thinking about how even things we feel as solid like this keyboard are actually made up of atoms of which 99.999999999999% are supposedly empty space. From where we sit it feels like our universe is filled up, and everything is solid. But that's really an illusion. It's practical enough for us to live our lives of course.
This is how I've felt about our lives. It's like we have these things that act on us, but most of our lives occurs in the space between. Take something that we might consider as unpleasant, like going to the dentist to get a cavity drilled. There are some true moments of discomfort, I am not disputing that a drill buzzing into a nerve doesn't cause very real unpleasantness. But when you zoom out the drilling makes up a very small percent of the actual time that the 'dentist' takes up in your life.
Making the phone call to schedule the appointment doesn't hurt. Driving to the dentist isn't painful, just floating down the road in a temperature controlled vehicle listening to some music or a good audiobook. Making small talk while the receptionist checks you in is easy. Sitting in the lounge and playing some addictive smart phone game or wondering how magazines are still in business is pleasant enough. Getting seated in the dental chair is no big deal. The gaws, biting down on stuff for x-rays, little poking and prodding and cleaning, all fine.
If you add up the seconds in which a drill is actually causing physical pain, it's probably about a minute. Certainly not life's finest joy, but not really a big deal. And there is no work to be done, no stress of deadlines or demands from your job, your children, etc. When you get down to it, it's almost a vacation. Yes, a moment of unpleasantness, but vacations have moments of unpleasantness too, like feelings claustrophobic on a crowded stuffy airplane that is forced to taxi for an extra half hour, or being hung over for those that drink, etc.
My point is that life has felt a lot like that lately too. Our problems in life are very real. They do impact us. But in the end, 99% of our life occurs in the space between. I can't fix the problems in my life, but I can demote them from authority figures that have the right to confiscate my ability to appreciate the rest of the time that my problems don't actually touch me. And if you've read my other recent posts (how we always have 83 problems no matter what, how life's biggest problems are unsolvable) I am starting to think that's the most important thing we do in our lives.
(Job) I have some real problems in my life. My job has been hellish for 15 months now, and that escalated about 6 months ago to where it is a day by day struggle. It has literally continued to get harder and harder, like a factory with an assembly line that continues to speed up day after day. But it's not just speed, it's finding ways to adapt that is scary, uncomfortable, and the entire thing feels hopeless most of the time. I think I'll have clarity in another 3-4 months as to whether I can make this position work. It's close but we'll see.
This has been exhausting and demoralizing and created real financial hardship. Financially I am going backwards $2,500 a month. My income in 2016 was 45% lower than in 2015 and I'm on track to make less this year. I have truly been court ordered to pay my ex so much I can't pay my own rent. If my income from 2015 had continued I could keep up just barely, but as it is I am nowhere near able.
I talked to my dad about it and we agreed to call off the home purchase. If you'll recall I am living with 3 children and my mother in a tiny apartment about 20 minutes away from their schools. This has been so hard. We were set to move almost a year ago into a rental close to their schools with more room, but my dad told me NOT to rent. He insisted on helping me buy a house to have a better quality of life for the kids and build equity instead of paying a landlord 100K over 4-5 years. I told him I wasn't stable enough but he truly insisted and said he could make the payments if he needed to float me for a while. So I passed on that rental, and we began looking at home purchasing. First we had to wait for the financial piece of the divorce to settle because he wanted to put the loan in my name. I told him this would be impossible with my ex making late payments prior to me directing funds at the mortgage (part of our 9/1 agreement). But we held off until I got the amended decree in September, then finally they turned me down anyway as I knew they would even with him as a co-signer. So we jack around for another month or two and finally in late December I get the pre-approval letter, but now Wells Fargo is blown apart with lawsuits and my job is crap and I told him again that this was insanity, that I truly wasn't able to make my housing payments right now, that if he wasn't going into this with the intent to pay it himself then he didn't understand where I was at. Meanwhile I think he had overcommitted himself and wasn't able to really do what he had told me he would without hurting himself, so he took the opportunity to back out. He instead is going to try to help me through the next few months until I can sort out my job or try to replace it. Bottom line, a colossal waste of time and energy and another year in this apartment unnecessarily.
Looking for work is it's own story which I won't tell, but right now despite the difficulty my current job is honestly still my best bet of paying my bills. If I can make it work I may be able to get back where I need to be. I'm not able to earn the income I'm mandated to earn anywhere else, so I'm going to fight every day to see if that's possible. I don't have a plan B at this time.
So this has caused me pain and suffering. It is unfair that my ex is guaranteed to have income handed to her and her mortgage paid for (on the house I bought with 10 years left on it) for not working, while she gets to go back to school, take some classes, and party it up with her new guy, while I am killing myself with no guarantees and coming up short to the point that my quality of life is below poverty. If this doesn't turn around, what, will they throw me in jail if I can't make my payments, or will I move my children in to my friend's basement? There is nothing else I can cut besides the rent.
And for those that talk about remarriage, this is why that is a no fly zone for me. People can debate endlessly about the hows and the whys of the reasoning behind the support laws, but as far as I'm concerned there are two schools of people- those that think they are whacked and can wreck a guys life, and those that haven't gone through what I have that maintain the luxury of talking about them philosophically. And people can debate endlessly about relationships, growth, how it should work, but that's not what I see nor what my experience has been either. I still think women are beautiful inside and out, but anymore I don't see it as a static, I see it as a process. Like how a caterpillar turns into a butterfly. A woman turns from someone that loves and supports me into someone that ends up destroying my life emotionally and financially. Just like the wildebeest, stranded, cut off from the herd, alone on the plains of the Serengeti, sadly there can be but one outcome...
I am not depressed, but I've definitely been running in the red on energy for a few years now. I don't remember what it's like to feel optimism, feel like the world is my canvas, to wake up with a bounce in my step ready to make amazing things happen. When I was married and I had a 'good woman in my corner', was able to pay the bills, had dreams of a 'good life', and I was also a few years younger, boy, I felt the world was mine for the taking. The last few years I've felt the opposite. And while the pain of the D has faded on the surface, the loss has impacted me profoundly in a way I don't think will ever change. I have been waiting for things to feel differently, thinking maybe with time and the abatement of my financial crisis it could lighten, and maybe it will, but I am starting to think it won't. Maybe I'm just older and more beaten down and this is the new normal from here out.
So those are a few of my bigger problems. And they are toughies. But here's the thing. These problems have impacted me surprisingly little. Because I am living in the space between.
I enjoy my caffeine in the morning. I enjoy my ride to work. I enjoy most of my routine activities. I enjoy seeing the kids at night. I enjoy playing chess. Overall all gang, I have more joy and appreciation in my life than ever before. My financial problems are real, but they don't hurt me minute by minute. The divorce culture and laws in our society don't thrill me, but it doesn't impact me either. It's all just these big ideas about future fantasies and possibilities and debates on how things are or could be or should be. But day by day, minute by minute, my life is my life, a series of miraculous experiences that I can groove with.
S12 is still jamming his computer. All I could say is if you plugged a keyboard into a rock he could hack into the CIA database given a few hours. It's remarkable. Of course his grades are slipping, he's not getting his work in (D in algebra, which is funny because he taught himself algebra when he was 9). He's been running from his problems a bit. So I took him on a trip last weekend, got a hotel in my old hometown, showed him where I grew up, went on some walks where I used to walk to school, etc. I explained two things. One, the expectations. I expect him to avoid burning bridges so when he's 18 he has a full range of choices in life. I will not allow him at 12 to make lifelong decisions. Even if at 18 he travels down the road he thinks he wants now, he is to leave all avenues open. This means he is to graduate high school with grades that allow college if he chooses, he is to not get a girl pregnant, he is to not be in jail, and he is to not be addicted to drugs. Outside of that I am pretty flexible, but those are the rigid requirements. Two, I expect him to learn to manage his life. I asked him what that meant and he couldn't tell me. So I explained that if he doesn't manage his life, others have to. If he can't follow laws, the police will step in. If he can't do his work on his own, his teachers and parents will step in. Usually it's life itself that steps in with natural consequences. And as an adult he won't have others to manage his life, and those consequences get more real. But that I was here to help him learn those skills. You guys get the point. Bottom line, we had some good dad/son time, walked around, read a bit, went out to some restaurants, caught a movie, checked out a mall, etc. It was a really good trip.
D9/D6. Girls are doing great. D9 rocked her choir concert last week. She wants to be a pop singer. Hey, why not. We watched a season of "The Voice". She is playing BRILLIANT chess, but hasn't been inspired to play on her own, I have to push her. But if I don't she goes back to youtube videos, so I guess I'll push her. I signed them up for another tournament a week from this Saturday. She's doing great though, loving life. D6 isn't at the same level with chess, but she seems to genuinely want to play more. Playing on her own time with the computer, playing around with the pieces. The lightbulb is starting to come on, she's seeing more and more cool ideas. Still not putting it all together smoothly, but it's cool to be a part of. We're having fun goofing around too.
All kids are eating at the kitchen table, with a wide menu including many vegetables, totally miraculous compared to two years ago when it was pizza and BK and cereal on the couch.
As for pool, ha, I almost forgot. I only play every other weekend, but when I do it's pretty cool. I won a tournament in January that was kind of the state championship (not official, just the most prestigious annual tournament). Then Efren Reyes from the Philippines, who is the greatest player that ever played pool, came through our town. They wanted to arrange an exhibition match with him versus one of our top players, so they picked me to get in the ring with him. It was a nail biter that he won, but who cares, it was an honor to play him and it was cool to be on center stage in a packed arena against a guy like that. And I have been having fun playing, more fun than ever.
Almost through Dune with the kids. Paul just reunited with Gurney.
Bottom line guys, life has been hard, but I stopped caring a while ago. All of the moments where I am joking around (I am introverted and keep almost entirely to myself, my best friend, and my family, but I have a gift to make every interaction with the people around me joyous and put a smile on their face), spending quality time with my children or mom, or just studying a chess position, or even driving to an appointment where I know the customer is going to be a hard a$$ and probably throw me out in 10 minutes, doesn't matter. It's all good. If I went on about my problems it is because that is what we write about for updates.
But that's not where I live. I live in the space between. The reality is none of it truly touches me. I am the #%@$* gingerbread man.
Love you guys. Thank you.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Love your post. You have a unique way of observing and describing life and a talent for writing about it.
(With your sales background maybe you should look into marketing it )
I'm sorry about how your doing financially. I think it all comes down to the fact that if you have the foresight and perhaps enough cunning and motivation to plot and plan correctly the system will be made to serve you. Its not pure business though because of the love and emotion involved. So the person that is capable of turning off that emotion and treating it as a heartless venture usually does better.
I get where your coming from...My ex's net worth statement shows that he pays 200 more for his total car expenses/month then he does in support. (i am not getting alimony) My ex claims to spend 1000 in food and eating out per month for just himself. Almost the same that he is giving me in support. My ex gives me 94 dollars less per month then he is supposed to and has not contributed to most of the extra curriculars or child care that he was ordered to. i just dont have the bandwidth to argue anymore. Meanwhile, I am living with my parents. He earns 2/3 more then me. HE is also entitled to half of my savings. He claims to have none. I really hope he wont go there.
As I type to you, I am trying to get him to agree to out of pocket OT for our son that would cost him an extra 150 per month if we split the price evenly. He is concerned about the cost. ( I have grown a lot through this process. In the past I would have asked him to eat a little bit less for the month so our son could have this service. I held back)
I too am trying to focus on living in the spaces : )
Sorry for the high jacking. I feel for you. I am not a lawyer. I do not know the laws where you reside. Only what I am experiencing and what woman I know are experiencing. I really feel for you because I think you were one of those guys that suffered not necessarily because of the law, but because you were trying to do the best by your family and acted in an honorable and moral way. And the system certainly does not always recognize that. One day Your children will though.
Your a great guy and a hard worker Zues. I wish finances would get easier for you. Because that would be fair.
That's inspiring. Re the finances. If your income has dropped in half, can't you get a court readjustment on alimony? I know you can at least try to do so in my state.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Hey guys, thank you all for reading along. I know some of my posts can get rather warandpeaceish so I appreciate your persistence in getting through it all.
Financially the courts did what they could but there just wasn't a way to make it work. Their goal was to level our incomes so that both XW and I had similar monthly cash flow. The problem was that my income wasn't enough to support two households, so when they divided up my income and looked at what we'd each have to work with, we were both in the red compared to our proposed budgets. It isn't necessarily about the courts being unfair, but they can't divide 10 in half and get two sets of 8. So we are both in dire straights financially. The difference is that XW is getting multiple forms of government assistance for food, utilities, etc. This is one reason I can't renegotiate. There just isn't enough to go around, so there's nothing that can be done about it.
The other reason is that I signed a "Karen Waiver". This means that neither of us can request any adjustment to the maintenance for any reason. The reason we did this is to protect me actually. See, if the courts had resolved our situation they would've slated XW to go to work, but then would've factored in child care for her as well. This wouldn't have resulted in much net gain overall, and the situation wouldn't have improved anytime soon. Instead we 'front loaded' the maintenance giving her time to finish her RN degree program. The idea was that from an overhead view it would make more sense for me to carry the entire weight for 3-4 years to avoid child care costs in the short term, then when she enters the work force she will be poised to earn a professional income and we can cut the maintenance down to nothing around the corner. It made the most financial sense for the family and for her development as well. The reason for the Karen waiver was to prevent a scenario where I pay through my teeth for 4 years while she parties her way into failing grades, only to bring me back into court and say "Judge, I need another 2 years to finish my degree, he's making good money and can't let the kids starve, I need more money". Pass. If I'm going to front load the support then I need to know that while I am responsible for providing her the opportunity to finish school, she is responsible for using the opportunity and making it work once that window closes.
Is it fair? I don't really know what fair is. I don't know how you can make the division of insufficient resources fair. It doesn't seem fair that XW can make a unilateral decision to separate and double our expenses and force me into poverty and an indentured servitude. But there are many injustices in this world. All I can do is learn from my mistakes and not put myself in this situation again.
The good news is that I am down to about 28 payments left until the maintenance drops. I will still pay some child support, but compared to what I'm paying now it will be a joke, thousands less a month. Someway somehow my employment will stabilize somewhere, so once I'm down to just providing for my half of the family again I'm sure I'll be ok. There's a real chance that I'll be earning a strong income again and with that weight off my back and my minimalistic lifestyle (my only hobby is pool and I earn income playing) I could be pretty comfortable. And of course then my kids will graduate, and the support will end as well as the cost of raising them. Point is that long term, 3-5-10 years out I will be fine. So if I have to just grind through 800 days of adversity then so be it.
Of course, there's always a chance life throws another curve ball. Maybe a debilitating accident or something. Point is that while I am optimistic that my current hardship won't continue, it may well evolve somehow, and I'm darn sure not going to wait until some day years from now to enjoy myself. I'm glad you guys are enjoying your time in the space between as well because we all know that's where life happens.
Done working for the week. Playing some pool tomorrow, it's every other Saturday so I get to dust off the ol' cues.
Oh, next Saturday is my kids chess tournament. My sister is coming with. For those that don't know I haven't really been talking to my sister the last couple of years. She was the one that was bff's with XW during BD, out drinking with her and texting day and night. If XW murdered my wife then my sister drove the getaway car. I have let go of most of my anger and feelings of betrayal, but have been left with a lingering distaste and disinterest in having her in my life. Still, she is my sister, and she is the children's aunt. After over a year of non-communication with me she texted me and asked if she could get together with me and maybe see the kids. I invited her to the chess tournament. That way she can see the kids, we can have several 20 minute blocks while they're playing to chat and see each other, maybe grab lunch, but we can keep it somewhat superficial. It's a little tricky because if she were to ask things like "how have you been", "how's work", or things like that, if I am not careful I could end up saying "it's all total bs and 90% because of the decisions XW made which you supported in every way while continuing to defend and justify your involvement and contribution to the destruction of my family"...but I can let that go I think. I realize that the vast majority of this country thinks that reaching out to your back up man on facebook and then splitting up a family is a reasonable choice, and my sister just happens to be one of them. In the end she is my sister and I will always love her and wish her the best. I can't control her or the world, just my response, and I think that continuing to allow access to the kids, keeping things civil, and preserving the underlying love and shared experience I have with my sister is my best response, so that's what I'll be doing. I can make small talk with her, let her spend time with the kids, then retreat back into my own world comfortably enclosed by four green rails and sharing the company of a few trusted friends and fellow DBers. Thanks and take care DBers!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Just got an email from XW. I am in a bit of shock at the moment. She made several significant accusations that just blow me away and talked about how much pain this all caused her. I will write them out, then get my feelings off my chest. Maybe then I can start to process what type of response is appropriate.
1. She told me it hurt that I wasn't supportive of our children's events. Thursday night my son had a violin concert and I didn't attend.
2. She told me I burner her with the tax returns. She found out she has to pay in $2,000 in taxes this year while I received a refund.
3. She told me that she found out I was a drug addict for 10 years during our marriage. She told me she felt my addiction to uppers was responsible for the failure of our marriage and probably for the death of our miscarried child. She said she learned this through a mutual friend and cited specifics of events that either never happened or were patched together from different situations that occurred years before I met her.
Now to get this off my chest.
1. I am a tremendous dad. I have been reading to my children every night. We are eating healthier than ever. My D6 and D9 played the chess tournament yesterday, D6 took first place, D9 took 4th, this was exactly a year after their first tournament and after me telling them if we worked hard at it they could get trophies in a year. During this tournament I took S12 with me and I had him write an English paper. It wasn't homework, I was actually dissatisfied with how little writing they were having him do in school so this was my own assignment. He wrote a persuasive paper and I taught him how to brainstorm points, organize them, create an outline, create a rough draft, and write a paper. We went to lunch together and he typed it up last night. He learned a ton, in a subject (English) that XW thinks he struggles in. This is on top of our daily reading. I spend time with all of them together, 1:1, and still give them time to do their own thing. Bottom line, my son hates violin and is counting days until the end of the school year when he never has to play again. Missing this event doesn't warrant an accusation of poor parenting.
2. Our finances are legally separated now. I got a refund because I worked, I paid in taxes, and due to deductions I was entitled to a refund. She had to pay in because she didn't work so had no taxes paid in, and because the maintenance was taxable income. Everything has been executed according to the divorce decree. She made the decision to separate from me and this includes financially. She made the decision not to go back to work. Through it all I have always paid my unfair share in a timely way, even when it has impacted my quality of life and forced me to move in with relatives. The only deception with finances was her theft of $12,000 in my income (as those that follow this thread are aware of) and the only inequity is that which was inflicted on me by the courts. This suggestion that I am being financially unfair is absurd.
3. Here's where my jaw hit the floor. I literally don't have words. From the day we met in 2003 I avoided any uppers like the plague, with only one exception. That was in 2012 when I played a major one on one challenge pool match that lasted 3 1/2 days nearly straight through. This was a unique event in my life and I knew when I signed up for it that was the price of admission. I wouldn't do it again, but it truly was a one time event. It happened years after our last child was born and at no other point during our 10 year marriage. The suggestion that I murdered our unborn child is staggering.
Through this all she talked about how much I hurt her, how even though we're divorced it still hurt to find out I deceived her for 10 years, that I continue to hurt her by not supporting our children and taking them from her half the time. When I, too, am without the children half the time from a decision that was clearly not mine.
OK, thank you for letting me type all of that. I had to get my reaction out of my system. Now I will take some deep breaths.
This demands a reply, but honestly I'm shocked and tired and have to go to work in the morning and fight to hit my sales goals in a tough month. I need to give some thought to how I reply, or should I say I need to find my calm place. I don't feel like going on the defensive, being whiny and weak and debating these points. I do feel the need to state clearly and one time that she has received some misinformation, but whether she believes that or not is outside of my lane.
I have been solid through all of this and I'm not going to get derailed now. I think of the example that one poster used to give, that if you were standing on a street corner and a crazy person came up and started screaming at you, you wouldn't get upset. You'd just enforce your boundary. It's a little trickier because I do need to co-parent with this person, but I certainly don't need to react emotionally or defensively or argumentatively.
I'm still getting this out of my system so I'll just say that to me this is simply insanity. I'm all about validation, but I don't know how you validate some of this crap, "It must be tough to believe your ex hid a drug addiction for 10 years causing the death of your marriage and unborn child, I can understand that...???" Pass. And I'm all about understanding there is a grain of truth in everything and that it's not black and white, and I'm not perfect. I get it. But as I look at this again and again, while I am open minded to my own humanity, I am totally confident that I've done everything I can for the last 3 years to be the best man and leader of my family I can be. She is free to disagree. Heck, she got her divorce. But I'm going to keep moving forward.
Part of me wonders if she is really crazy, or if she is just in a really dark place and dealing with the consequences of medicating the pain of the loss of our marriage instead of going dead through the middle of it dealing with it. Maybe her and her boyfriend had a fight, maybe she's drunk, I don't know. This is all mind-reading on my part so I'll stop right there. There is no way I could understand what is going through her mind anyway. I just have to shrug and accept that it's not my game. I'm sure she has her reasons and I wish her the best in navigating through them. In the meantime I just need to be on alert to protect myself and my children if she starts acting as illogically and unpredictably as she is talking.
I know I'll calm down and the right reply will be revealed when I'm feeling centered. I'll certainly read and consider any suggestions you all have to offer. Jelly, given your background I'd be really curious what you recommend as well if you have any thoughts to share.
Thanks gang.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Was a bit emotional and about to post on my own thread, but then was distracted by your post.
I'm certainly not the best person to make suggestions on how to respond. But I do identify (very different from agree ) with the emotions of your ex. She is still angry and has been feeding off of anger for a very long time. Her anger for you is what has allowed her to leave, to villify you, to take your money, to cheat. She feels no guilt or remorse because She is still angry and thus when something goes wrong in her life she finds a way to blame you. No matter what happens, she will find a way to twist it against you. She is angry and you are her punching bag. You are the cause of everything that goes wrong in her life.
I am sure she was feeling emotional and upset with her life and found a way to link it back to you. Now there might be a very small piece of her that regrets what she wrote. But she will justify it in her mind. I can most definitively tell you that anger comes from hurt. Probably more of old hurts then a violin concert. There might even be some real justifications for her old anger. Things she feels went unvalidated.
I'm sorry I don't really have any recommendations on how to handle it. I only know that being dismissed would feed and justify the anger, as would be offered a canned validation like "I'm sorry you feel that way"
The truth is though that the anger is her issue. Not yours.
)