Surfers LL Experiment - Part 2 'Christmas Spew'

[Surfer]

and if I am honest, I have fallen foul of some of these traits.

Whilst true, I have now learned that difference being I don't intend to manipulate and will always apologise if I am challenged. It seems the Abuser intends to abuse for control and wants a 'One Up' position. They never apologise and do mean to control.

Interesting stuff!!!

Surfer.

[Surfer]

V

RE:

the cycle of the wayward or abuser

Can I read more of this cycle (specifically the way you describe it). I would like to understanf this more.

Thank you.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

Journaling....

I have been reading "The Verbally Abusive Relationship". Having read this I believe that my W has always been Abusive in this way. There is FOO stuff I can see also. Furthermore, I believe that she has anger addiction. Thanks to V I can now see the cycle.

Yesterday, W got in touch, really nice, kids are doing this etc. General nice chit chat. Then she unloads her requests. It's about who has the kids over Christmas. It's our first so I went with, it falls on my weekend so I would have them this Weds and then From Friday to Sun. She seemed to have accepted this but then has come up with variations since so there's a little lack of clarity. Essentially, kids are definitely with back here Christmas Eve and Christmas Day to 6.30pm. The rest is unknown. I have been asking for clarity as I want to see them 50% of the time in total (which is fair). I have had none. She has asked me to have them on Weds, as she is supposed to be working (I don't know that I trust this fully). I am working in any event. She is now talking about me having them when she works at the end of the holiday. I am more okay with this as work will be quiet. We will see. However, when W raised the situation yesterday, she said, could she have them all says prior to Xmas Eve, it will be unfair not to. I said, I am listening but I need to know what is going on so I can see them 50% of the holiday, it's not just this in isolation. We need to talk about this more generally. One I had made this entirely fair comment she went weapons hot, requested an apology etc (I can only assume she is unclear about new year plans etc and is trying to line her ducks up with GAL and then throw me the scraps - IDK, not mind reading or really too bothered frankly; I just want to know so I can plan seeing the kids (but she is withholding)). However, the point is she was clearly trying to sugar coat what she wants! It wasn't about the kids or being nice. I now clearly see this behaviour.

In terms of history, she has always done this. Be really nice to get her way, then 'BOOM' (rage, spew, horrible) if she does not.

I am learning to spot the cycle but am a long way off. I certainly am not spinning with her when she does. The phone goes down and that is it. I text her to say, "this stops. Happy to take a text if you struggling to communicate properly at the moment". This does 4 things, sets a boundary (and shows her what I won't tolerate), tells her I am still listening, stops her getting the anger payoff, stops her getting the 'one up' payoff.

Is there a more appropriate forum for this kind of behaviour as this board is about general issues, I am very certain that I now have an understanding of the real issues at hand here?

Thanks.

Surfer.

[Vanilla]

I trust you have read the abuse threads?

You can find them under my name.

I didn't find much to help surfer, most sites repeat And repeat and a lot of it didn't match my experience. I started with the freedom program which is a UK charity initiative and then observed. I followed up by doing the facilitator training.

It took a lot of thinking to put my ideas in place and much of the stuff on narc didn't apply and there seems to be very little on how to handle this. As in what to say, how to see the patterns. Each abuser is different.

The Giggalo cycle was very short, sometimes several a day. Hard to see through as the text books implied cycles of weeks. But after hitting my head with a hammer, many times I felt I cracked it.

It frightens me rather a lot, the unpredictability of it. The destruction and I went through an unpleasant period where I blamed myself for being so stupid not to see it.

I actually don't think it matters if we have a diagnosis, the behaviour is absolutely dire. Would I go back to it? No, not ever.

Much of what I read is by those who are either amateur or haven't experienced this. I like the body keeps the score by Bessel and the Tao of fully feeling which are more the recovery phase.

Please also Google Post Traumatic Growth which is truly inspirational there are some Ted talks on it.

I found it easiest to detach in observer mode and I started being very calm as the Giggalo ranted. I have a spew shield. Before I understood it then I looped and was distraught. I am very traumatised by standing for M, although I frankly would be destroyed if I hadn't.

These are what I call spell breaks, once you know you will never unknow. And frankly they are very transparent once viewed with dispassion.


So where to go to get the info, this is the best place, truly if is. I haven't found better.

If you want to see a great example of the black and white in action then the third film of the Lord of the Rings opens with crazy addiction of Smegal and Gollum. With the internal struggles between the black and the white and the addictive pull of the ring. Tolkien had it right.

You have seen the Alfred Hitcock film Gaslight haven't you? It was on YouTube and it makes my spine tingle.

Each abuser and raged is different.

I found Ross Rosenberg quite useful and his four stages of recovery for codependency. I am not codependant, just naive and been had by a compulsive abuser.

There are bits and pieces everywhere. You will work your way through it and find your path. I will help if I can.

V

[Vanilla]

Please post to Woke Up, you will see the cycle in action with anti social tendencies.

Fortunately his WW is overt, I think so.

He needs support please.

V

[Surfer]

Called W to speak to kids mid afternoon. If I miss them so much I really need to I do. Otherwise if I can am occupied I don't. They seem secure and I am with this so all good. Anyway, w advises she is in car with dad and no kids. I the. Say okay, just called to speak to them never mind. She asks is everything is okay (potentially a good sign but I am always wary, it's sometimes an invitation to a conversation she can manipulate so she can spew). I said all fine just sorting last of kids presents and working out how best to present them, stockings, presents, normal rituals etc so it all feels normal. W says I don't know why you are asking me it's just what I do every year you know that (in a haughty way). I just say, errr I didn't ask you, I was telling you what I was up to in response to your question is everything alright. So the answer was yes but I was just 'sharing' what I am doing. She the. Said okay let's speak later. I said no need to I am good with it all I'll catch the kids later I'd best head off I've got lots to do and I don't want to keep you. Bye. Call ends.

Her voice indicated a desire to spew. Her dad was there however and abusers only abuse verbally or otherwise in front of direct family (kids) normally othe Wise it's behind closed doors.

W calls me later when along in the car going home to an empty house no kids as she has to work tomorrow and they are with MIL. She says just calling you back from earlier. Now I know she knows I said no need. She wants to spew and feels safe in the car doing this. I however am not having this so I say 'no need as discussed I'll speak to them tomorrow, also the signal is terrible - it was. I can't really hear and am in the middle of something so I'll let. You get on I am sure you have lots to do. I hang up. She calls on the land line - a typical clue, various call backs to various numbers. I repeat the process but without the bad line comment as it's better now. I make sure I am not putting the phone down, I am just letting her know the facts, no kids, no need for me to speak, I am good, I am busy and I am sure you are I must crack on, let's catch up lots to do. Got not call back fortunately. I just cracked on - zero spew.

I believe my W is an anger addict. A book called the verbally a ubusive relationship leads me to firmly believe this. I thoroughly recommend it as Vanilla did to me - for which I am very grateful.

Surfer.

[Woke_Up]

V

I am reading the Verbally Abusive Relationship.

Surfer.

I have ordered this today. Delivered to work, as most Amazon parcels get opened at home by WW.

[SH_]

SH's thoughts, observations and challenges to Surfer

Chapter 1

Surfer...
I have pondered for some time as to why I keep being drawn back to your situation...
Things jump out at me...
then it fades...
I attempt to move on as the extension of my hand feels brushed aside...
I then think, he has this...no need to worry for Surfer...
I move on...
Then like a bug to a bug zapper I get hypnotized back in...
I have now seen what it is...
There are parallels to your behavior and mine that which I am attempting to modify.

I would like to share some with you...
Encourage you to take a risk and begin down a different path...
One step at a time.
It will take work.
It will take courage.
It will take a definitive decision on your part to take action.
If you choose to do so, I believe that you will look back and appreciate that you took a step in a different direction.
After all, you are a year into this and repeat patterns of behavior that appear to create the same results that you are shaking under.
What do you have to lose...?

SH

Thank you. I totally agree with what you have written. I have the intelligence to understand an even help others but at times this may be me parroting information as such. I can't just expect this to work. I need to focus harder on my application and be consistent in doing so. I really appreciate the comments. Thanks for reminding me of the need to focus. In particular on detaching, which I now at least understand, is basically a habit. One to develop rather than 'attain' - i.e. It's. It a destination. It's a journey, possibly for life. A healthier way to live.

You are aware of the knowledge and wisdom. You are aware of your shortcomings in application of this knowledge.
In this, you have taken a step...but you cannot stop there.
Knowledge is useless without action and effective application of it.
No one has ever thought his or her way to success...

You don’t have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great. ~Zig Ziglar

yes it does extend into other parts of my life. I take all views I wish to on board, then make my own mind up. I am very independent hence the massive rip of co-dependency. I also expect this did not help our R with W feeling left alone and hurt perhaps? I would listen to her views but would often just do what I felt was right. As I am not big on arguing or debating I would simply explain my views a few times and why I didn't agree with her views and would then close off the matter at hand. It's kid of a controlling behavior but I see it wasn't helpful (and was unintentionally hurtful - absolutely unintentional. This could be over anything really. Whether to buy this or that. Simple things etc.

This says something about you. It is difficult sometimes to look in the mirror and see our own bullsh1t for what it actually is.
I commend you for being honest here.
I think this is why I may continue to be drawn to you and your sitch.
I struggle with these things myself.
I Gather large amounts of information...sift for what I want to make of it... and stick to my guns when I decide what works for my thought process, whether it be right or wrong.
To the detriment of those around me.
I am also a conflict avoider...when I disagree I state it emphatically...leave very little room for discussion...I believe it contributed much to the failing of my marriage...
She would also avoid...she now rages...I believe that I contributed much to the fire that fuels the anger and outbursts that she has not found the courage to "fight" back.
It is absolutely very controlling behavior...intentional or not.

I am challenging you to look inward to this as an opportunity to for you to change...it will require that you move your focus from her, from her rage, from her tantrums, from her behavior, now. Knowing the "why" of her behavior, is not going to help you navigate the stormy waters.

I am still working on being a better version of me.

We all take our own path in this as we have different issues to work on.

Surfer.

We do, all take out own path...and as I see it, you and I have the same issue to work on here.
I perceive that when guidance and assistance to you is lent, that you seek a different opinion or thought until it matches that which you already want to believe.
Perhaps so you do not need to heed the advice and take action?
I perceive that when you are lent advice as to why your W behaves as she does you grab it and hyper analyze it to justify that she has the issue, and you are justified in what you do.
I am challenging you to take a different path...for your change...growth...healing...for your 50% of the issues.
After all that is what we learn early on in this process, correct.

End of Chapter 1
Next...observations of the abusive relationship info, that Surfer is reading...

[SH_]

SH's thoughts, observations and challenges to Surfer

Chapter 2 -Observations and thoughts of the abusive relationship info Surfer is reading

Surfer,
Vanilla has shared some valuable information for your understanding of aspects of your situation based on what you have shared and what she has learned…
Lady V is a great source of information and inspiration for me, and you will find much value in her guidance and thoughts…
I can see from what you have shared that you are gleaning information quickly already…
I perceive that you are applying much the same filter to this information as you have with DB principle and advice in your time here.
I am going to step out on a limb and say that Vanilla shares much information and wisdom so that one can apply the knowledge to working on ones self…not so much to diagnose at length the WAS/WS…
How are you absorbing and applying the information that you are studying?

I am reading the Verbally Abusive Relationship. I have nearly run out of ink underlining this!!!!! Thank you for pointing it out. My W is definitely profiled in this book. And if I am honest, I have fallen foul of some of these traits. I think this book will help lots. For me to understand that my W cannot see herself in this role and to help Communication and also so I can understand how my communication can be seen as controlling (even though this is totally unintentional).

Are you diagnosing your WW with the information here? You indicate that you see that she cannot see her self in this role…
How can you see this?
Mind reading again?
You indicate that you see how your communication can be seen as controlling…and justify it as unintentional…

Surfers’ habits surfacing…?
Are these habits that manifest during the MR?
Is this benefiting anyone or anything?

Whilst true, I have now learned that difference being I don't intend to manipulate and will always apologize if I am challenged. It seems the Abuser intends to abuse for control and wants a 'One Up' position. They never apologize and do mean to control.

Interesting stuff!!!

You follow the pattern here…
Justify your behavior.
Mind read her intentions for her behavior.

Surfer my friend…
The information shared with you should be used much the same as a professional athlete or sports team.

Study the film.
Identify the patterns of behavior of your “opponent”
Evaluate your skills and habits.
Build your skills and habits so that you can win the game.

A boxer has a particular set of skills.
Each boxer has strengths and weaknesses in their skill sets.
They must focus on enhancing and building their own abilities.
They study film and read up on their opponent so that they can determine what aspect of their game to work on.

As they study the opponent they do not bog down in trying to read the mind or intention of the opponent.
There is little value in doing this. It can simply be assumed that the opponent does what they do, because it is their skill ability, or habit from success in the past, or who really knows…
Knowing that does not change that you need o focus on you, your weaknesses, your abilities and your strengths.
But to focus on the intention will only hold back the boxer… as it is holding you back
The focus is on his own mindset…because this is all that can be controlled.
Surfer can benefit much by focus on his now mindset.

The opponent will likely change up their approach based on their own training and study of their opponent…
Surfer can change many approaches...current approaches repeat knocks on the chin and bruised ego...

Surfer…use the info to identify her behaviors and patterns of behavior so you can adjust yours to avoid getting knocked out.

Create the mind of a victor… not a victim.
Justifying why she is landing blows on you is victim mentality.
Working on yourself, getting stronger, being the best dad possible, are all ways that you are dodging the blows no matter what she throws at you is how you get through this.
Learning how to set boundaries…changing habits that can be controlling (intentional or not), focus on being the best Surfer he can be, is how you build a victor mentality…I can tell you it will translate to other aspects of your life which is a very pleasant bonus to it all.

A victor’s mentality becomes a victors reality. Joel Osteen

Action is the next step.

End of Chapter 2
Next...Challenge to Surfer to practice what he preaches. Focus is key to success.

[SH_]

SH's thoughts, observations and challenges to Surfer

Chapter 3

Challenge to Surfer to practice what he preaches. Focus is key to success.

Surfer, my friend.

What have you preached often to others?
You have been asked to share with a neighbor that is struggling with some similar challenges.
What have you shared with Woke up?
Surfer, I read great advice and guidance…I have observed that you are struggling with some of it, and it is by choice as you indicate…
What is your focus?

Called W to speak to kids mid afternoon. If I miss them so much I really need to I do. Otherwise if I can am occupied I don't. They seem secure and I am with this so all good. Anyway, w advises she is in car with dad and no kids. I the. Say okay, just called to speak to them never mind. She asks is everything is okay (potentially a good sign but I am always wary, it's sometimes an invitation to a conversation she can manipulate so she can spew). I said all fine just sorting last of kids presents and working out how best to present them, stockings, presents, normal rituals etc so it all feels normal. W says I don't know why you are asking me it's just what I do every year you know that (in a haughty way). I just say, errr I didn't ask you, I was telling you what I was up to in response to your question is everything alright. So the answer was yes but I was just 'sharing' what I am doing. She the. Said okay let's speak later. I said no need to I am good with it all I'll catch the kids later I'd best head off I've got lots to do and I don't want to keep you. Bye. Call ends.

Her voice indicated a desire to spew. Her dad was there however and abusers only abuse verbally or otherwise in front of direct family (kids) normally othe Wise it's behind closed doors.

W calls me later when along in the car going home to an empty house no kids as she has to work tomorrow and they are with MIL. She says just calling you back from earlier. Now I know she knows I said no need. She wants to spew and feels safe in the car doing this. I however am not having this so I say 'no need as discussed I'll speak to them tomorrow, also the signal is terrible - it was. I can't really hear and am in the middle of something so I'll let. You get on I am sure you have lots to do. I hang up. She calls on the land line - a typical clue, various call backs to various numbers. I repeat the process but without the bad line comment as it's better now. I make sure I am not putting the phone down, I am just letting her know the facts, no kids, no need for me to speak, I am good, I am busy and I am sure you are I must crack on, let's catch up lots to do. Got not call back fortunately. I just cracked on - zero spew.

I believe my W is an anger addict. A book called the verbally a ubusive relationship leads me to firmly believe this. I thoroughly recommend it as Vanilla did to me - for which I am very grateful.

Surfer.

Surfer my friend, have you read MWD recent email communication to the community?

I will post it here as I think it sums up what I would share…much more eloquently.

Practice What You Preach

Hi [Surfer],


For many years, I have been teaching people- clients and therapists alike- the basic principles of Solution-Focused Therapy.

One of the trademarks of this approach is the importance of paying attention to the problem-free times in life- noticing them, determining what accounts for them and recreating them.

For example, when couples say they fight all the time, Solution-Focused therapists ask, "What do each of you do differently during the times you're getting along somewhat better?"

Knowing what causes solutions is a great deal more helpful than knowing what causes problems.

Because of my enthusiasm about this strengths-based approach, countless people have remarked, "You are such a positive person, Michele."

Well, not exactly.

You see, like many people, I have a well-honed worry gene.

Murphy's Law reigns in my head- "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong."

So, the other day, when I forgot why I walked into my bedroom and later couldn't find my car keys, I convinced myself that I was getting Alzheimer's.

Not exactly a comforting thought.

I confess, when it comes to my life, I don't always practice what I preach.

But that day, I decided to try something novel; I would make more of an effort to access the Solution-Focused Therapist within and pay attention to problem-free times.

Not only that, I promised myself that when I noticed what I was doing right, I would bring on the fanfare, much in the same way I do with my clients or loved ones in my life.

So, in the days that followed, anytime I remembered something- a telephone number, where I placed a folder I needed for work, or several items on my grocery list- I told myself, "Good job, Michele! You remembered. You're awesome!" And I would savor the moment.

I must admit, each time I cheerlead myself, I have to chuckle.

Because I'm out of practice, it still feels pretty awkward. But I'm determined to keep it up. I'll be my own long-term client.

That's because, "What you focus on, expands." Now, just remember that, Michele.


Warmly,

Michele

When you focus on problems you will have more problems. When you focus on possibilities you’ll have more opportunities.

Surfer, the views here are hardcore DBing views and MWD is providing the thoughts.

I am a living example of what efforts to focus on different things can change in life...I have a long long ways to go, but it is a journey of a thousand miles and it starts with one step at a time.

read your threads and you will see the pattern of your focus...it is on WW...perhaps that is the "problem"

I challenge my neighbor and friend to shift focus to the possibilities...what can you read that will help Surfer, be a better version of Surfer?

I hope that my thoughts may benefit you.
I ask that you let me know if I can continue to partner and assist...
I thank you for letting me share my thoughts...
I have gained much this evening and the days past as I gathered them and formulated what I have shared.
Thank you my friend.

Conclusion of SH thoughts and pondering.

You and your family are in my prayers daily.
I know in my heart we will make it through this.
i believe in my heart we will come out on the other end and be blessed with things beyond our current imaginations.
How and when we get there will be up to each of us.

Merry Christmas, I hope it is one with joy and peace for you and your children.