MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year

[SM34]

Definitely don't focus on OM. And don't talk to her about him. The single guy type OM who is in an active A with a married woman is not the threat. He isn't taking this seriously. And when she's with him she mentions you (it's inevitable since you share kids) and it causes him to be insecure. Don't fixate on that kind of loser. He's just as broken as she is, if not more so. No confidant alpha male type guy is going for a married woman. I would bet all my money he's having some kind of crisis of his own and she's his bandaid as much as he is hers.

The threat to your marriage and to your family right now is you. You are your biggest hurdle. Her situation will blow on her at some point, our age and our experience tells us it's inevitable. The question is what happens after that.

OM is a crutch. He's helping her feel better about what she's doing. He's what they call an enabler. He's telling her she needs to look out for herself and her happiness, she's telling him stories that are based on a heavily re written history. A sad story of how she was never happy with you. She never loved you. And you never treated her well. All a complete load of BS.

She also has a friend or two who are doing the same. Look out for those too. They are usually recently divorced or never married type who want to bring another recruit onboard their train wreck if a life. Your wife will know which of her friends are supporting her poor choices and she will gravitate to them. The ones who challenge her to look within herself for answers to why she's unhappy, those are her real friends. But she will stay away from those right now. It cramps her style to be with those losers...that's what she tells herself. They don't really know her as well as the friends who support her cut and run. The reality is the opposite. And she will realize that one day.... but not soon. The enabling friends are sometimes called "orbiters". They orbit your wife and support her decision and want to be a part of the new and improved her. Don't try to talk to her about these things because it doesn't work. She'll think you are trying to control her and she'll put you in the group that doesn't understand her.

You mentioned she says she's clear on what she wants. If she was clear she would be long gone, like many of the wives in here. What makes your situation similar to mine is that she isn't gone. And in a lot of ways things are about the same between you. With the exception of the third wheel.

The coaches have the right idea in my opinion. Many will try to convince you to blow up her world. Kick her out. Changes the locks. But I think there is a reason why coaches tell you to try to build a connection with her rather than moving quickly to distance and end this stale mate. And the reason is that she is one foot in and one foot out. If you push her she will shift the other foot out. If you build connections she will first lift the outside foot up into the air then try to figure out where she's going to drop it. You want to be the best decision.

This is NOT competing with OM. This is not about being better than him because we already know you are. Your wife is not trying to decide between OM and You, she's trying to decide YOU or NOT YOU.

Now. We've gone through all the thought process for your wife and for OM. Let's focus on you for a minute.

What would you say is the single most important problem in your marriage?

Does your wife take anti depressants? To me those drugs are the root of the divorce issue in the world today.

[ForGump]

don't think a confrontation will do any good.

Sorry to be stuck on this but ... My MLC/WW had a full blow delusional EA with an OM, but backed off after I immediately punctured that delusion. I just did not think it was good for her mental health to hang on to an absolutely delusional view of reality.

Anyway, my suggestion isn't really to have a confrontation, fists cocked, ready to punch the SOB. In fact, I believe the poor young man is a completely unwilling pawn in your W's delusion, feeling totally weirded out that his boss is coming onto him, and will be relieved to know that you are sympathetic to his plight.

What is there to gain? One, I get the sense that you buy into your W's delusional fantasy; and I think just talking to the fellow will help you get a better footing on reality. Two, after you talk to him, you may be able to find a way to gently but firmly shine some light on your W's delusion. Get her back to reality.

I'm not trying to bludgeon you with my logic. But I respectfully submit for your consideration. You know best what's going on in your situation.

[SM34]

ForGump I have some observations from my sitch as well as many others. And it's also built into DB principles. It's the idea of patience. When you think you've waited long enough, you need to wait some more. And it's brutal. Only the patient person can get the outcome we all want, which is a healthy marriage with their spouse and a connected family.

Here are the problems with bursting her bubble too early:

1) it takes time for the MLC or WW fog to clear. It's very thick right now and she can't make good decisions

2) removing OM from the picture too early will almost guarantee OM2

3) because OM is a guy who is guaranteed to have issues of his since no level headed and life driven man fishes for other peoples spouses, he is a good third wheel to have. The wife is simply parked in a tow away zone right now

4) let's say OM is nudged out of the picture too early and W is not ready to look back at Husband. Technically she is now separated and so OM2 could very well be an actual candidate to actually keep her. He could be in his 40s or 50s, divorced in the past, have his head on straight, career driven guy who is ready to commit to a divorcee wife with 5 kids. The 22 year old OM is not.

5) the crisis has to run its course. If it takes let's say 6 months or 1 year, think of how many OMs can be crammed into that time period? Geordie may be able to look past one OM and reconcile with his W but can he look past two? How about three?

6) if the other time hires a rookie quarterback wouldn't you prefer those odds rather than a seasoned veteran?

Personally, I left my W in the company of the loser who helped her escape. I played a waiting game. I made sure I was the safe place for her while also "acting as if" I was ok with moving on. The better you do this acting as if the more pressure you place on her and therefore the more strain on this new OM and their R together.

Your 22 year old is exactly like the OM in my sitch. He's not ready for kids and is just in the company of someone as broken as he is. Birds of a feather flock together. You wouldn't want him removed too quickly making way for a OM2 who could be an emotionally healthy guy who would be dating a separated woman. That changes the situation drastically.

That is my opinion.

I'd leave it alone. I'd let it run it's course. Let it be a learning experience for his W. I've seen people apply pressure too early and end up for being a OM2 situation. Or forcing an early reconciliation and then deal with OM2 a year later.

Wife has to learn the lesson. She has to go through with her plans to the very end. See the plan through. She's escaping her life that's fillled with kids and laundry and dishes. She's going to start a new life with someone who doesn't have kids (same as OM in my story). She's going to do all the things she can't do in her real life. The fantasy is too powerful. The way out is to let her see it through all the way until it pops and the reality hits like a ton of bricks.

Can you imagine the issues that will arise from this OMs perspective? I can tell you a few from my sitch:

1) he isn't good with kids and doesn't know what he's doing. This will be a turn off for any mother. She will tell him he needs to learn.

2) he won't appreciate the times when she needs to take care of little junior who has a cold. And she will tell him He needs to learn.

3) every time she mentions her H he will tell her not to mention him. Because he's not comfortable hearing about another man who is obviously so tied into her life. And she will tell him he needs to get used to it, and learn.

So a pattern here? The W tries to make a husband and father out of her new OM and the single guy almost always fails. I like Gordies chances the way they are.

[ForGump]

SM34, everything you say makes sense if OM is indeed an OM; i.e., some real emotional or physical exchanges have taken place between Gordie's wife and the OM. I believe no such thing has happened. I believe Gordie's wife is having a delusional episode.

It's one thing for me to say that I am totally in love with <name of some movie star>. It is a completely different thing for me to say that the movie star and I have something going on between us. If I truly believe that, I need professional help. It is called psychosis.

Furthermore, I am not suggesting Gordie go blow this up into a confrontation. I am merely suggesting Gordie talk to the 22 year old kid to confirm that his wife is delusional in this regard. I am not suggesting that he take that info and go rub it into his wife's face, necessarily. But it will help him understand where his wife is, mentally, and put to rest his concern that his W is going to go co-habitate w/ this 22 year old kid after she divorces him. She can believe that, but I believe Gordie needs to stop buying into that delusion. It's not a fantasy, but a delusion.

[Gordie]

First, no anti depressants. Both of us have been free of drug issues, prescription or otherwise.

Second, the single biggest issue is the loss of emotional connection. My W's primary love language is quantity time and conversation and over 20 years and 5 kids she feels we drifted apart and that it's no one's fault. When she is angry, she says I prioritized myself and the kids over her. When we lost the emotional connection, she started to resent the childcare and housekeeping and sex--these changed from things she enjoyed to duties she resented...she felt used. She started questioning everythkng and blaming religion, society, her family and me for her situation. She attempted to talk to me about some of these things, but I didn't listen. As you suspected, she made new divorced and single friends who have been her cheerleaders in her new endeavors.

[SM34]

True. I can agree with that. If there is no OM or no actual EA or PA that changes things.

But. Do 22 year old boys often get invited to hang out with a 42 year old woman just to chill? I just don't buy that.

But anyway, regardless, the W is threatening to leave. If not this 22 year old kid then it would be someone else. I didn't understand this at all when it was my turn. I kept telling people here in the boards how much better I am than the OM. I was insulted that she would leave ME for THAT. And if you read enough sitchs here you will see that's actually a pattern. The OM or OW is ALWAYS trash.

My wife later confirmed to me that it had nothing to do with how good OM was or how better or worse I was or he was. He was there. He was easy. Because no one who is emotionally sick wants to break away from a marrriage and get their own apartment or home and THEN start dating. That is the path for strong emotionally healthy people!! Broken people find someone to enable them and they jump ship without having thought it through.

So there has not been any evidence at all that they are in an A? Gordie when you say they "hang out" what exactly are they doing? Where? Who is with them? What is her excuse or allaby for hanging out with someone who is young enough to be her son? What's her story regarding this?

[SM34]

She's in a crisis that has been brewing for some time. It's not that you didn't listen. You did what all spouses do in that situation. You downplayed it. You put yourself in her shoes and you decided if you were her you wouldn't be that seriously affected. You wouldn't have been thrown into crisis mode over these thins.

Which brings us to the next point. she almost certainly is suffering from prior trauma. Forgive me if it's in one of your earlier posts. I didn't see any back story of her past. When you trace the history of crisis people there is always something in the past that caused this.

My wife therapist guided her while she was in crisis. She made her confront the things that made her explode. Turns out they were deep seeded issues from way way before I ever met her, and they were based around her parents divorce. (Surprise surprise. The same thing all of us here are trying to shield our own kids from).

It was through her own therapy that she was able to slowly realize that she was the one who had issues. Her unhappiness was not caused by me. It was definitely made worse by me, and I took responsibility for my half of our failed marriage, but there were older more powerful issues that would have made here leave whoever she was with, even if it wasn't me.

People who decide to cut and run would have done it with whoever they were with. The proof in your sitch is her blaming religion, her family, her upbringing etc. basically she feels she was made into a person who she is not. Exactly like my wife felt. THERAPY made her realize that SHE made herself the person who she's not, not the people around her. Certainly not me!

[Gordie]

So there has not been any evidence at all that they are in an A? Gordie when you say they "hang out" what exactly are they doing? Where? Who is with them? What is her excuse or allaby for hanging out with someone who is young enough to be her son? What's her story regarding this?

There is no evidence but I haven't snooped. I suspected and after BD when I questioned my W she confessed that she is IL with him and me. He works for my W in her small business so that's why they have time together. W confesses she started taking him out to lunch because she thought he was interesting. They became friends and shared the details of their lives with each other. OM is in a three year committed R with his GF. W says she denied having romantic feelings for him for a long time and then couldn't deny it any longer. W says OM isn't open to a R with her because she is a married woman.

[Gordie]

I hadn't considered it I blow up OM1 then I may be opening the door for a better OM2. Yikes.

[Gordie]

Which brings us to the next point. she almost certainly is suffering from prior trauma. Forgive me if it's in one of your earlier posts. I didn't see any back story of her past. When you trace the history of crisis people there is always something in the past that caused this.

The big crisis in my W's past that she admits to driving her current behavior relates to her mother. W's best friend growing up was her mother. Mother died unexpectedly when W was a youth. W felt abandoned. W believes her mother felt trapped in her marriage and her religious beliefs did not permit D so she willed herself to death to escape her M. W says she refuses to be repeat her mother's path.