Love is a decision - my story

[Seeker7]

Thank you Cristy. I completely understand that she will not share my enthusiasm with my recovery. She says that it is good that I am doing it but one thing is for sure is that it will take proof over a long period of time. I have been really focusing it on me since it is all about me becoming the best version of myself. My GAL right now has been going to church and getting involved there, of course my AA witch consist of a lot of my spare time in the evenings which I have been creating a great support group of new friends and people that have really helping me through these tough times. I have also been working out and reading a lot. I do not have any real hobbies but my activities are very healthy and productive that keep me very busy. I do hang out with some of my friends a bit too. It is not so much a career change but a job change since I got laid off in the beginning of December.

[Seeker7]

Correction on #5

Fifth, Genuine forgiveness is the only thing that will keep roots of bitterness from choking your marriage

[Seeker7]

Well I am just taking it one day at a time and waiting for time to go by to see where this all leads. I just keep having hope that one day it will be all better but I am preparing for if it does not.

[PacLove]

She says that it is good that I am doing it but one thing is for sure is that it will take proof over a long period of time.

There is so much truth in that statement, remember you are trying to undo 21 years of "bad habits" and it has only been a a few months. Remember too that they are "very" observant during this time. I was shocked at the examples/slips my W latched on to over the last year where she didn't see me changing.

I have been really focusing it on me since it is all about me becoming the best version of myself. My GAL right now has been going to church and getting involved there, of course my AA witch consist of a lot of my spare time in the evenings which I have been creating a great support group of new friends and people that have really helping me through these tough times. I have also been working out and reading a lot. I do not have any real hobbies but my activities are very healthy and productive that keep me very busy. I do hang out with some of my friends a bit too. It is not so much a career change but a job change since I got laid off in the beginning of December.

Definitely need to find some hobbies, exercise was one of the most important things for me - it was especially helpful through my periods of Anger - work/blow off steam in the gym or on the bike. Support groups are also good, check out any meet ups in your area for Divorce and Separated, I went to one of those for a while and found it helpful. Also went to a Mens Catholic group for a while. Talking helps big time - the forum is great but we tend to miss the real human interactions.

It is one day at a time, then it goes to one week at a time

[PacLove]

I was shocked at the examples/slips my W latched on to over the last year where she didn't see me changing.

So I may get face some recourse for saying this but a popular book out there does say that Men and Women think differently in relatinship. It's also something my IC reiterated when we met...

W tend to latch on to things and have a tough time letting go and forgetting. My W still brings stuff up from the beginning of our M. Coincidentally this also makes it harder for them to accept the change and also empathize that we can forgive them for their indiscretions as if it was the other way around they would likely not.

Men/H on the other hand tend to forget more easily or are willing to move on to the next problem/challenge - we are "fix it" people, which is perhaps why so many of us are on here - holding out hope and believing we can change and fix this.

I don't know if there's any forum statistics, but this forum definitely seems to be more skewed to more Men vs. Women, which is interesting especially given that the statistics around A's are skewed the opposite way (More men have A's)

[Seeker7]

There is so much truth in that statement, remember you are trying to undo 21 years of "bad habits" and it has only been a a few months. Remember too that they are "very" observant during this time. I was shocked at the examples/slips my W latched on to over the last year where she didn't see me changing.

Yes there is. That is one thing that I learned for my AA is that time takes time and so does proof. One thing that I did learn in one of the first books I read on wining you EX back is that the quickest way they can see changes in you is through other people telling them. Like relatives and friends telling them that they have seen changes in me. The reason is, is that she does not trust me but she still trusts them. I know some people have told her that because they have told me. I know my kids have noticed changes in me and am sure they have told her. So I know she sees some. One thing for me is it was easy for others to notice changes quickly because of my addiction. Her problem was not the person I was but the person I became in my addiction. I am just going to continue on the path I am on and see what happens.

I have been trying to think of some hobbies to do but have not found anything that really interests me. I do go to a lot of AA meeting and have a great group of guys that I have as a support system and they have really helped me out. Thanks for the advice on the Divorce and Separated groups. I have not thought of that and will check them out. I agree with you 100% that talking to people in person about your sich is a big help. I am involved with several things at my church and one of those is my spiritual advisor. He has helped me out a bunch.

I know what book you are talking about and I did listen to it in an audio book. It was very insightful. That was one thing I had to totally step away from is trying to fix her. I would never just try to understand her and try to come up with solutions to the issues. Now I know that women want to be understood and not fixed unless they specifically ask for help to fix something. There is a good 5 min video on YouTube called "It's not about the nail" It was insightful in a funny way on what women want.

I don't know if there's any forum statistics, but this forum definitely seems to be more skewed to more Men vs. Women, which is interesting especially given that the statistics around A's are skewed the opposite way (More men have A's)

Statistics is quite interesting. Here is one for you 2/3 of marriage divorces are initiated by females but years after the divorce 2/3 of the females that got divorced wished there H would have tried harder to save the marriage.

This one comes from several different sites and there are some variance in the numbers depending on when and where. So please do not quote me on this because it all coming from memory. 45% of 1st M end in divorce. Out of that only 60% get remarried. Up to 70% of second marriages end in divorce. Out of that only about 50% of second marriages that work are happier in there second marriage after 5 years. And out of the second marriages that are happy a lot of those came from marriages in very abusive situations or form marriages that only lasted a few years. So if you do the math you have about a 5% chance of having a happier second marriage if you do not fall in one of those two categories. Know here is the kicker. You have a very high chance of being happier then ever in your current marriage as long as both parties are willing to do the work necessary to make it work right.

Here is one about A. Over 50% of marriages have an A but only 20% of divorces are because of an A.

[PacLove]

One thing that I did learn in one of the first books I read on wining you EX back is that the quickest way they can see changes in you is through other people telling them. Like relatives and friends telling them that they have seen changes in me

I wish that applied to my sich, but my W didn't confide in anyone about us - we don't have family nearby on either side and she only told 2 of her closest friends about the S and no one about the A.

You have a very high chance of being happier then ever in your current marriage as long as both parties are willing to do the work necessary to make it work right.

Definitely agree with this - and it's shown through some of the books and success stories I've read. I've even witnessed it more than a few times through friends who went through their own personal crisis of either S. or A.

I momentarily got caught up in the "could there be something better" but my W turning around quickly changed that perception.

Here is one about A. Over 50% of marriages have an A but only 20% of divorces are because of an A.

This statistic still shocks me - and yet I've come across it over and over again. It's hard to believe that half of the M out there fall victim to this, but easy to see now that I've lived through it. It certainly gets you wondering about your family/friends and their marriages... doesn't it?

[Gordie]

Forgiveness:

Ok since my sitch is different than any other threads I have read and have read a lot of Sandi’s (you have been a tremendous help thank you) post on the WW wife I understand that there are two important things that have to be done to win the love of my W back. First she has to be able to forgive me for what I did to her and second is I have to win her respect back. Correct me if it should be the other way around. As you can see I did cause her a lot of emotional pain and hurt her heart deeply. I know that I am not responsible for how she feels but I am responsible for what I did.

I have done a lot of reading on resentment and bitterness; also have done a lot of reading on forgiveness. Also since I am AA I have talked to many different people about this also because forgiveness and making amends is a very big part of the program.

Harboring of resentment and bitterness is the #1 cause of depression in the US.

First of all there are four stages of bitterness:

Stage 1 – Unresolved anger – An angry conflict that is not resolved to the satisfaction of both parties can lead to one or both of the parties starting down the path towards bitterness. The intensity of the feelings is directly related to how close the offender is to us. We all have a choice to hold on to the hurt or to forgive the other.

Stage 2 – Festering – Defined as a progressive irritation. People demonstrate the following:

a. Develop a self-preoccupation with the details of the conflict, especially the words and actions of the offender.
b. Feel the injustice of the wrong done to them. They develop a self-righteous attitude.
c. Start to worry about how the conflict will end. This becomes an endless action going nowhere and not resolving the conflict.

Stage 3 – Resentment – Defined as a feeling of indignant displeasure because of something regarded as wrong, insult of other injury. People show the following.

a. Evil thoughts toward the offender in their mind.
b. Withdraws for the offender and his allies using hostile silence. Develops a lack of trust in others and loss of personal confidence.
c. Develops a critical sarcastic attitude toward those around them causing others to stop relating. This action leaves the person more isolated.

Stage 4- Bitterness – Defined as an intense or severe suffering of the mind.

a. Bitterness can develop from real or imagined hurts. The bitter person becomes preoccupied with the hurt of the other person. The other Person’s guilt always seems so real.
b. Bitterness is like a prison – Trapped and closed in – felling intense inner turmoil.
c. Develops envy – Painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another.
d. Continuing to hold onto bitterness becomes a sin – can also become an idol.

Anger occurs – anger is unresolved and held in – Offended party mulls over the painful events that caused the anger – resentment grows – bitterness develops – bitterness expressed – isolation occurs – physical and mental problems develop – bitterness becomes a way of life.

Holding on to resentment is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.

Forgiveness:

There are two reasons that people do not forgive and usually it is a combination of the two.

1. People do not know how to forgive.
2. People hold on to it because they believe that it will hurt the other person.

What forgiveness is not:

The passing of time will never remove the barrier. Barriers are removed by sincere apologies and genuine forgiveness.

Forgiveness is not a feeling but a decision. It is the decision to offer grace instead of demanding justice. Forgiveness removes the barrier and opens the possibility for the relationship to grow.

First, Forgiveness does not destroy our memory.

Second, forgiveness does not remove all the consequences of wrongdoing.

Third, Forgiveness does not rebuild trust.

Fourth, forgiveness does not always result in reconciliation.

Fifth, Genuine forgiveness is the only thing that will keep roots of bitterness.

Reconciliation requires working through differences, finding new ways of doing thing, solving the conflicts of the past, and learning how to work together as a team.

Forgiveness does not remove all the hurt nor does it automatically restore loving feeling but forgiveness is the first step in processing hurt and restoring love.

Thank you. Very helpful.

[Seeker7]

I wish that applied to my sich, but my W didn't confide in anyone about us - we don't have family nearby on either side and she only told 2 of her closest friends about the S and no one about the A.

Well right after she told me she was moving out she went around and told all of her friends and relatives. Right after she moved out she blocked me on FB and put up that she was separated. The interesting thing is, is that she never changed her profile pic of me and her with the kids.

I momentarily got caught up in the "could there be something better" but my W turning around quickly changed that perception.

I was there and trust me the grass is not greener on the other side especially if at one point the M was very good. Another thing to mention is that a have a couple of older friends that are in their second M for over a decade and both of them told me to things. One is that they wish they would have tried harder for their first marriage and second is they are no happier now then they were in their first marriage at this point. One of them I talk to a lot has kids from their first M and him and his ex have a better R then they ever had and they both get more out of talking to each other then to their own S. I thought that was pretty interesting.

This statistic still shocks me - and yet I've come across it over and over again. It's hard to believe that half of the M out there fall victim to this, but easy to see now that I've lived through it. It certainly gets you wondering about your family/friends and their marriages... doesn't it?

Yah it does get me thinking. Just think that one out of two married couples you know have had, are having or will have an A.

[Gordie]

Rose888,

Thank you for your reply. Let me clarify this a little better. It should have been worded a little different now looking back at it. I am not necessarily asking her to forgive me but for me to make my amends with her. As I said above she is not going to bring it up. She would not do this even if we were on best terms ever. She does not bring anything up ever that would cause confrontation because of her personality she hates that and is scared of that. That’s why in the past I have used it against her because I knew that if I got her upset it would be easier for her to give in to what I wanted. Also she wants me to read her mind and guess what she wants because in her mind if she tells me then it is not me doing it. But from what I understand now there are many other women that do that to. So what I am asking is how often should I ask her if she is ready to sit down face to face so I can make my full amends with her?

And thank you on your point of view because I agree with you on that it would be disrespectful to keep asking all of the time. I do see your point on timing and her being willing. Do you believe this would be the same thing?

Gordie,

Thanks for your reply. It is good to see what you did and helps me understand a bit better. I understand the necessity to put in what you have done and put it across in that you truly do understand. As is put in above on some of this and will clarify a few things better. I did sit down and make a long list of things that I need to apologies for but I want to do it face to face so she can see my face and my eyes besides just my voice. I know I am very remorseful for what I have done and want to make it right. I agree that timing is everything to with it. I just do not want to do it over the phone. Right now she still does not want to see me and I have completely quit asking too. What are the thoughts on doing it over the phone or in person?

Yes. I agree all of these important conversations should be face to face. Phone is second best. Right now, it seems like she's not open to these discussions, right? Back off and try with the small steps of just building a friendship where she is willing to be in your presence. It seems like you have a decent relationship with the kids. Maybe try to plan a family outing. Can you guys go to church together or to dinner or to an activity and just be civil with no R talks? Once that is safe, can you have one family meal together per week at a restaurant or at your place? From there, maybe you guys can go have a coffee together? Baby steps. No relationship talks--too stressful.