I think we all would want that (the cheating spouse express remorse). But why is that? What does that give us? If the cheater doesn't verbalize their guilt, does that mean he/she doesn't fully accept responsibility? And if they don't accept responsibility, that means they might do it again? Or they are a bad person?
Just trying to unpack the concept....
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
I hope I can help add some perspective on remorse from the cheater's perspective. I was the WH and had an emotional affair. Whenever my wife brought it up, I treated her really poorly and cruelly. It wasn't until almost 9 months later, when I went to a meditation retreat, that all my emotions of guilt and shame came pouring out. I cried, apologized, and begged my wife for forgiveness.
However, this was still not true remorse. Because I just wanted my wife to forgive me to remove my own guilt and shame. I think true remorse comes when you begin to change into a better man, into a person that would not have an affair. True remorse is when the better man truly cares and accepts responsibility for how he hurt you.
Married 6 years Separated 1 year Divorced 1/1/17 me 35 wife 30
I hate to be a negative Nelly. I think to think of myself as more realistic. My point here is I am going to heed a warning. Your H has been going from one extreme to another really quickly. one day he says he wants a divorce and feels nothing and almost the very next he is ML to you and telling you that he loves you and wants the M to work. he is doing all the "right " things right now which is great I am sure. But I know you know to keep your expectations low. He's been flip flopping pretty easily.
I think you have studied and done this DB thing quite well. But you let him back in super easy with a right word or gesture. Then you crash along with him when he flip-flops again. Then you get angry he isn't remorseful. I am curious why you do let him back in so easily the second he says the right things. I mean, I think I know why, because you want nothing more than for the marriage to work and you feel like maybe if you told him no until he worked and proved he was committed, and he said no, you would in some way feel like it was your fault if you didn't let him back in the second you wanted him back in.
You are so dead set on him feeling remorse, but why aren't you dead set on him doing what it takes to show you he means it this time? He'll keep walking in and out of that door as long as he knows he can get back in so easily.
Yes, I know, I am a bubble burster. I am sorry for that. But I am honestly a little worried for you.
James- thank you for what you wrote. That really resonated with me, and causes me to think about my faults in my marriage in a more meaningful way. (Meaningful to me, anyway. Little idea what it would mean to my STBXW.)
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
I hate to be a negative Nelly. I think to think of myself as more realistic. My point here is I am going to heed a warning. Your H has been going from one extreme to another really quickly. one day he says he wants a divorce and feels nothing and almost the very next he is ML to you and telling you that he loves you and wants the M to work. he is doing all the "right " things right now which is great I am sure. But I know you know to keep your expectations low. He's been flip flopping pretty easily.
I think you have studied and done this DB thing quite well. But you let him back in super easy with a right word or gesture. Then you crash along with him when he flip-flops again. Then you get angry he isn't remorseful. I am curious why you do let him back in so easily the second he says the right things. I mean, I think I know why, because you want nothing more than for the marriage to work and you feel like maybe if you told him no until he worked and proved he was committed, and he said no, you would in some way feel like it was your fault if you didn't let him back in the second you wanted him back in.
You are so dead set on him feeling remorse, but why aren't you dead set on him doing what it takes to show you he means it this time? He'll keep walking in and out of that door as long as he knows he can get back in so easily.
Yes, I know, I am a bubble burster. I am sorry for that. But I am honestly a little worried for you.
Ditto. Ginger, these are my thoughts exactly. Could not have said this better myself.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
ForGump, I guess for me remorse means that WH will "get it" and be less likely to re-offend. What does it look like? Well to me it is him showing me he is shoring up his boundaries, telling me (with real emotion) how sorry he was and that he was wrong from beginning to end that he even thought to make another woman my equal in his eyes. But mostly I feel like remorse is actions, if he sees I am struggling he will embrace me and hold me if I break down and start to cry. That he will start doing the heavy lifting and tell me where he went wrong and how he will prevent it from happening again, and then actually DO it.
James, Thank you so much for your POV, it is invaluable. It took real grit and courage to look within yourself and fox what was broken. Bravo, good man.
Ginger and BluWave, I have not shared a lot of the day-to-day conversations and actions between WH and myself. I have caught him reading up on how to help your spouse recover from the affair, he has been actively approaching me asking if I am ok and if he can help me. Strangely enough I am unsure myself what I need...I had this list in the past but for some reason I don't want those items any more. At this moment I just want to enjoy my children's happiness, continue to enjoy my work and colleagues. I turn towards my support network and find comfort in their love and support. Honestly I may decide my WH's affairs are something I cannot move past but if so, then at least I will have a good relationship with the father of my children.
I have been following my DBing coach suggestions very closely, I have reviewed my notes and re-watched the videos I purchased from MWD. It appears when I apply the rules consistently, when I stopped letting my moods depend on WH's (I haven't written about a lot of his crashes, when he withdraws and sleeps in the spare room) when I do what makes ME happy...I feel joy and freedom. I ML with my WH because I want to, I enjoy it and it draws us closer. We've been able to disagree without arguing lately. Mostly I have let a LOT of things go that I used to choose as a hill to die on. Now the only things we disagree on and discuss are things that matter. I used to be a "right fighter" I was more concerned about being right over being happy. Since DBing I have had a radical change in my basic philosophy.
I show my husband warmth, tenderness, and a willingness to listen when I want to argue. He in turn is quick to apologize, be preemptive with being a father and husband (instead of me asking/nagging) has become gentle and considerate with me. He immediately asks if I am upset if he senses I am sad/upset. These are HUGE changes recently, of course consistency is the key. Honestly I am happy, I feel even if our M doesn't survive I will be okay.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
I agree with you, his actions are the best indicators of his remorse. It seems from what you are describing that his mind is now tuned to yours, which is such a big step. He started the shift from the Me to the You and US.
May be what you need for now is just to be able to live peacefully, to relax. You have been under tremendously stress since over a year and you were robbed of living your last pregnancy the way it should be. So "Carpe Diem" but stay vigilant. Even in piecing, they are still very "touchy"and "volatile", their mood is still subject to ups and downs with no reason.
At the very beginning of the piecing phase, the heavy lifting is still mostly on us, but they need our kindness/love to validate they were right to stay/come back and to put to rest their internal fear that they messed up so much that there is no hope left for marital recovery. Remember that's during that phase they are starting to realize which mess they created and they become really aware of the consequences of it had on their family.
Being supportive/kind doesn't mean you become a doormat but you just pick your battle wisely and also give him space when needed, it seems you got that part pretty well . Also it's important to share with him what are your boundaries and the consequences in case they are crossed. He needs to understand that you are willing to give your relationship a new chance but it depends of his "behavior", it's just to avoid him to pressure you to accept some behavior.
But with time you will notice that their instinct to be right all the time goes down. So being very considerate of his opinions and choices, if they are not offensive or going really against something that you valued a lot, will be appreciated by him down the road and he will start doing the same to you, it takes a few months, so be patient and keep GAL, disclaimer: he might want to do join you...
I completely understand your struggle with resentment, but reading Bluwave's threads made me realized it was a phase I had to go through, so I decided to "detach" myself from it and to look to the future instead of the past. Work in progress.
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
I think we all would want that (the cheating spouse express remorse). But why is that? What does that give us? If the cheater doesn't verbalize their guilt, does that mean he/she doesn't fully accept responsibility? And if they don't accept responsibility, that means they might do it again? Or they are a bad person?
A bigger question that I struggle with in this area - and as you all know, my ex had an affair that destroyed two families - just how can we trust a cheater. The old adage once a cheater, always a cheater isn't that far off base.
I'm not sure as to how I could ever fully trust after not only being cheated on, but also being lied to over and over again to my face. That's not love. To do that, the left the marriage a long time ago. At this point, I'm not even sure how I can regain the trust in her. Ugh.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
. Also it's important to share with him what are your boundaries and the consequences in case they are crossed. He needs to understand that you are willing to give your relationship a new chance but it depends of his "behavior", it's just to avoid him to pressure you to accept some behavior.