I am sure that part of my reply can include some validation. Maybe some acknowledgement that I am not denying many contributions to the breakdown of our marriage. That for her sake she deserves to know the truth, and that is I was never a drug user during our time together with the exception of three days during 2012. That I am not claiming to be without fault, or denying that the pain she felt wasn't real. Simply putting to bed a mistaken notion to avoid causing her further pain needlessly.
Then I can talk about how we both agree that it's important that our kids are loved and supported from both parents. We have our differences on what this needs to look like, but I have taken her feedback to heart. And though I can't promise to never miss a child's even in the future, I agree they need to be prioritized whenever possible.
This is just some rough sketches, I'm still sorting through it in my mind.
Thank you.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
My best friend's wife is an IC. I have made a point to never ask for any advice, but tonight I asked him if I could break that rule because I really wanted to know what she had to say.
She advised one of two things. Either no reply at all, or some legal mumbo jumbo telling her based on our decree she had to desist this behavior. She told me to absolutely not engage. That is my mom's feeling as well.
I've already said everything I have to say. The brainstorms in my last post I've already told her at various times in the past. The only thing I could even say is to defend myself against her accusations, and those are so outrageous they don't deserve a defense.
I am still kicking this around, but non-responding seems to be a reasonable candidate move for me at this moment.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Again this is her issue, and I wasn't suggesting that you soothe her. That's not your job anymore. I was just helping you understand what she might be feeling. And the feelings might or might not be rational. It was inappropriate for her to put that on you. (I know that from personal experience)
JujuB told me you sent out a request for some of my thoughts, however my laptop wouldn't access the internet yesterday and I was home sick too. So sorry for the delay. I'm at work now and I can give this a small response based only on an initial reading.
My personal reflection is, with your final paperwork and accounting done, your ex is now sitting in some of the consequence of her choices and actions and does not like the view and experience the conclusion brings.
It's tough sitting there looking around and seeing that the fairytale you hoped for didn't turn into a reality. I think too JujuB is on the right track in assumming that your ex has been so used to using you as her excuse and her reason for her life not turning out the way she wanted. Taking responsiblity is tough. Us LBS can speak to that.
However in this case she has completely forgotten there are no ties now. You may well identify that your children are a tie, but as you clearly stated and we here are all to aware, you have created your role as father away from her prying eye and you have been affirmed in your parenting by professionals and under the law (not necessary of course, but you have shared care for a reason).
This is a nonsence Zues, a mere lashing out and projection of a woman who is now seeing that she is solely responsible for her lifes choice.
I know you are struggling and have struggled, but Zues you have survived and thrived through this. She feels your strength and your recovery. She is only now staring or confronting a soon hard hitting rock bottom.
None of what she has communicated is yours to own. My belief none of it is in need of validation. This is merely teenager acting out when they have been caught climbing back in the window they climbed out of.
Personally I would ignore her attempts to be an important and influential person in your life. Her opinion matters little, she gave up that right the minute she walked out the door, signed the divorce decree and the finanical agreement that accompanied it. Her words deserve little of your attention.
If anything Zues, you know the man you are. I believe that you can confidently look yourself the mirror and know the truth of this situation. Communicate what you think you must and then move on as you have, with your head held high.
Though we have no right to we are proud of you Zues. She does not know that man you are now. We do!!
My best friend's wife is an IC. I have made a point to never ask for any advice, but tonight I asked him if I could break that rule because I really wanted to know what she had to say.
She advised one of two things. Either no reply at all, or some legal mumbo jumbo telling her based on our decree she had to desist this behavior. She told me to absolutely not engage. That is my mom's feeling as well.
I've already said everything I have to say. The brainstorms in my last post I've already told her at various times in the past. The only thing I could even say is to defend myself against her accusations, and those are so outrageous they don't deserve a defense.
I am still kicking this around, but non-responding seems to be a reasonable candidate move for me at this moment.
I think you got really good advise that stopped you from replying and validating, because I think that could have been potentially very problematic. I think you should run this by your L, because I have seen this exact play many, many times before. I am willing to bet quite a bit that this is the first step in an attempt to get full custody. Whatever you do, do not validate!
The key is that she has to pay taxes. She's revealing it all in her message.
1) She needs money.
2) You're a bad father and a hidden drug addict so she should have full custody = more child support.
I think you should talk to your L and find the proper wording for refuting these allegations. If you let them stand unchallenged, she could attempt to construe that as agreement. Maybe even have your L send her a sharp reply.
On the tax issue: WH and I are going to have our accountant run the numbers both ways (we can choose whether to file joint or separately for 2016) and then decide what is best for the both of us.
WH will most likely get a refund regardless, I will most likely have to pay because I didn't think I would have to withold taxes while married. If we get back more by filing joint, he will get the same as if he filed alone, and we will split the rest. It's a win-win.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Zues, I'm sorry you received that message - it must have been tough to read and it is a measure of your progress that you can manage to not react, and post here and reflect on everything before you respond.
I agree that you may not feel you can let this pass without a response and if you do respond, I would try and remove the emotion from it and do so from your best self.
WRT to attending your S's event - if we removed the emotion, might that look something like - yes I was sorry not to have been able to go too and I will of course attend whenever I am able.
WRT to the taxes - I don't know, is there anything to say actually? The financial situation just 'is'....From what you have posted, it doesn't sound as though your XW has ever really felt the pinch and perhaps she is now? But she did make the choices she made and is now living them...
WRT to the uppers - You may want to let her know that you wouldn't want her to think something that isn't the case. And let her know that you did once take them to get through an event, many years ago and it was just that one time..of course she may not choose to believe this...but that's up to her..
I know I would really feel it added insult to injury if my XH posted in a similar vein to me - given all circumstances - but I do also think it shows an attachment to the situation and a wish to pass off responsibility - ie: I'm not responsible for the state of my life, you are..
All in all, not a great place or state of mind to be in..
Hope this helps a little anyway Zues and take care xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I have elected not to reply to this message. For several reasons.
Sotto, your words are very on track with what I would have said. The problem with talking about one incident with taking speed is that it engages this way deeper than I'm prepared to get. If I was going to respond it would be with a couple of sentences. I can't say I never took speed due to that one incident. But going into details of an incident is just taking the bait as far as I'm concerned. It starts some dialogue about something I have no interest in discussing. Not defending, not debating. Who knows what follow up questions or accusations or challenges she throws at me. Not to mention I feel like anything I do can and will be used against me in a court of law.
Had she asked me civilly, "Z, I heard something that was upsetting and I'd appreciate understanding what happened", I'd be fine replying. But my boundary is that I am sticking to essential communication regarding our children, and I'm not responding to communication delivered in a disrespectful or antagonistic way. I'm not going to tell her that boundary. I'm just living it.
Juju, your post on your thread said a lot. It makes sense that it's easier for her to remain angry at me and make me responsible for her situation than it is to feel the loss of where she's put herself. I regret that I acted in ways that caused her pain during our marriage. There are certainly valid reasons she can be upset with me for things that occurred years ago. And I can see how if she clings to those as the reason she had to divorce me that she can therefor rationalize any and all consequences of the divorce as my fault. It's odd to me that these WAS's will file the D paperwork and be convinced their LBS left them no alternative and therefor forced the divorce, but I can understand they do.
Where I draw the line though is when my boundaries are crossed. She's entitled to her anger, it's a real emotion that serves some purpose for her, right or wrong. But when she lashes out with such hostility I am going to protect myself from it. If a man attacked me with a knife I wouldn't have time to care whether he was hurting inside. That suddenly takes a backseat to the fact that I must act to preserve myself. Well, her tirade and accusations were nothing less than her doing everything she could to stab me with an emotional knife. So regardless of what role I played long ago in her emotionally wounds, it ceases to be relevant today. We all have wounds and hurts. We all don't go around trying to destroy each other emotionally. That is her choice, and given that she's capable of this type of behavior there is only one reasonable response- none. I understand you weren't suggesting otherwise, you made this point as well. I'm just working through what you were telling me and I agree.
Jelly, thank you for your words. You're right on with the phrase "Personally I would ignore her attempts to be an important and influential person in your life." You are correct. I need to take this to another level. I thought I had already, I mean I haven't spoken to her verbally in over 2 years, nor have I shown any emotion. I've just been sterile businesslike. For me she has already crossed enough lines that she has become nothing more than a bitter person I have to navigate around on occasion. But there is no limit to how many lines someone can cross. I may think she can't do more at this point, but she could try to undermine me to the children, or she could assault me physically, or she could kill herself, or she could start driving drunk with the kids in the car, and so on. Not only is it possible she could cross more lines, I am starting to think it's destined. In any case, each new line she crosses just puts another nail in the coffin of the feelings I had for her in another lifetime.
My feelings are obviously mixed up, with some hurt and anger from her attacks though most of that has faded quickly, to shock at what she would stoop to, to a bit of sadness that it's come to this. I feel like I had a farm dog that bit one of my children a couple of times and I had to put it down. I've lived a lot of life and am fine without my dog, the regret and grief I feel won't stop me from doing what I have to, but it's never fun to have to pull the trigger and put a bullet between their eyes, and bury them in the backyard. That's how I feel. I regret that she's crossed over to where I have to take this person that was once my wife and reduce her yet again to the point that she is nothing more than a dangerous raving animal that I avoid on my way home. It's sad to know that dog is in pain. It's sad that we are given the opportunity to rejoice in what we've been given and celebrate a life together and instead we go down this road. But I won't allow that moment of silence to interfere with me taking the action I need to in order to protect myself.
As I've said before, there are a lot of tragedies in the world. This is just one of them. The positive is that I've been living in the space between for so long it doesn't burden me.
I did chess tactics with my daughters tonight. They learned how forks don't have to just be attacking two pieces, they can be a fork between a piece and a key square. It was cool to see D6 go from needing a lot of help on the first one, to solving the last one on her own so quickly. They get king safety and protecting pieces in a new way, plus they've gotten better at tactics.
But the other half is the funny stuff that comes up in the middle of it. When D9 lost a game the other day she was sad, and I talked about the tournament before when she lost a game and then immediately lost the next two as well. I reminded her how after the tournament I had talked about how important bouncing back quickly was. And now that she had lost a game it was the perfect time to practice getting good at bouncing back. Then I asked her "Do you want to be a bunny, or do you want to be a LION?!?" To which her eyes lit up and she shouted "BUNNY!!!" At which point I rolled my eyes because of course she wants to be a freaking bunny, she is my 9 year old daughter, she loves cute bunnies. So then I settled for the Monty Python bunny and we laughed remembering the teeth like THIS (Holy Grail Killer Rabbit for anyone that missed that reference). My D9 laughed both about the killer rabbit, but also because she thought it was so funny because she knew what I was trying to get at with the lion thing and how she picked bunny. So now she keeps referring back to it, "Remember dad, I'm a BUNNY!"
This is just one tiny snapshot of my life, and as you can see it is pretty amazing. I'll do an update soon, but really it's just a string of moments like this that I cherish.
Hope you all are enjoying some good ones too and thanks again for the support!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I recently sent out a text to STBX kind of similar to your wife's text to you. It was immediatly after my son was diagnosed with autism. I was mad at ex. Because I struggled so much with my son, and he was never around. I was mad at my ex because I was so exhausted trying to take care of my son and when he left he cited me not working full time and not doing his laundry or cleaning the floors as a part of the reason. I was mad at his comment "you did nothing for me. Taking care of son was not for me" because I was really struggling and on high alert every second. I was mad that he left us with my parents and wouldn't pay child support. To me that diagnosis was validation. And I was ENRAGED.
He waited a day and responded "having any type of honest discussion with you is impossible. The texts above are examples of this. We shall agree to disagree on all points above"
His response again made me feel invalidated and reminded me of my hatred for him and his dismissivenees and stone walling. Like you, I could see him writing me off as that emotionally rabid dog.
It's like he took away my right to be angry. And he did that throughout the whole relationship with his stonewalling.
And I am and have been learning to be equally cold and business like and emotionless. (Or some would say in control of my emotions) In fact being emotionless served me well and put me in power and control with my short lived rebound relationship.
But it sounds like your wife is like me and still attached in a very unhealthy and immature level.
Again, you were right and doing the healthy thing by not engaging. I get it completely. Her issues, not yours. My issues as well, husband ended relationship to avoid these fights and here I am trying to reengage.
Its the battle between emotions/feelings and logic/self control I guess.
You are one of my favorite posters and I know anger has been a central challenge in your journey. And I also know you've been deeply hurt and have many reasons to be angry. I am not judging you for having moments of mishandled anger in your past. I have those moments too.
To me there is a very clear difference between feelings and actions.
XW has every right to be angry. My issue isn't with her anger. My issue is with her behavior.
Everyone feels anger. Not everyone acts the way she's acting. I'm not responding the way I am because of her anger. I'm responding the way I am to protect myself from her behavior. I am not going to engage with someone this destructive. That is my boundary.
To turn the tables, if I was angry and hit my ex wife, and she went to the police and got a restraining order...would she be taking away my right to be angry? I don't think so. I think she'd be taking away my opportunity to cross her boundaries and cause her harm. If I act like a rabid dog is she out of line to respond accordingly?
XW's assaults and accusations were way over the line, particularly due to their tone. I may have bullet pointed her accusations informatively, but it was communicated in pages of spew and multiple text messages.
As for being logical versus emotional, I'm thinking there isn't a one or the other answer. Denying our emotions and acting robotic isn't healthy. But acting out our emotions unchecked isn't healthy either. At some point we have to feel our emotions while looking at the situation logically and practically, consider what our values and beliefs are, then determine the best way to proceed forward to get the results we want and feel good about who we see when we look in the mirror.
I say this because it was a very hard decision to have to make to write off XW and demote her to rabid dog status. It is very sad, and I don't take such action lightly. I want to be clear I didn't reach this decision reflexively out of hurt or anger, but only after some careful reflection and seeking the advice of those I trust to help me guide through this in the best way for my family.
As for you J, what happened in the past is in the past. Consequences can last longer, but you can always enjoy what's in front of you. And while changing how you manage through your emotions doesn't take away consequences from past behavior, it immediately gives you that ability to look in the mirror and feel good about how you lived today. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. I'm in your corner all the way J.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
To be honest, I think that ex considered me rabid dog status when he left. Our pattern was, I would get deeply hurt or upset with something he did and respond with some pretty inappropriate sentiments. His leaving was his way to set boundaries.
He would tell me that my words were cruel and I would say his actions were crueler. I am by no means proud at how I communicated my hurt. He would also tell me that I was patient with everyone else but him. I think I just held him to much higher standards and expectations.
Anyway, from the rabid dog stand point I agree that you can't respond to that. It just allows for an unhealthy cycle. I hope for every ones sake that she is able to let go of her own bitterness. It was certainly hard seeing my behaviors in someone else.
