Truth. I would think that its more than just being caught up in the moment. This took planning
Oh, of course. What I meant to say that while they are doing it they aren't thinking about anybody but themselves. It absolutely took planning. My W even stated that it all started with a few emails back and forth then got flirtatious. She knew ahead of time that she was going to have the A way before it ever even happened. Hell, if it wasn't him then she would have chose someone else.
M: 37 W: 36 T: 16 M: 11 D2: 8,3 PA: 2015 WAW: 2016 W Filed: 2017 2/07/2017 W officially dating OM2
I do want to know every detail. Every single painful thing that was said and done. I feel like I need to know to move on one way or another. My W's A definitely took planning. Planning for him to pick her up at the airport on her work trip, planning for him to abandon his family on a layover with an excuse of outpatient treatment at his rehab clinic so he could stay in a hotel with my W for New Years weekend, and 3 subsequent trips he's made to my city since then where they stayed in his hotel.
My W has always been an extreme case of LD as far as sex and this guy is an addict where his W is saying sex is his new addiction since he's now being tested for drugs and alcohol weekly. My W is very impressionable and doesn't set boundaries well at all. She's at fault but he definitely took advantage of her and I know she's going to hate herself for what she's done at some point, regardless of her opinion of me.
It seems as if the A is actually over. W has been posting some heartache type quotes on Pinterest. In talking with OM's W, he is trying to act as if nothing happened and wants to move back home. They're trying to reconcile. I really do not understand how my W didn't see how big of a piece of garbage this guy was and how he was just using her. The affair was another addiction to him, an adrenaline rush from all the lies and secrecy. Then when his W found out, he broke it off because the fun was over.
I did text my W last Friday and asked if she wanted to talk. She said, "About what?". I replied, "About anything". She then said it wasn't a good time because a family member was very sick. Not sure if she actually is wanting to talk or not.
Several hours later on Friday she texted me randomly "So you're an alcoholic now?" I didn't know how to respond to that. OM had previously told his W that my W told him I was a physically abusive alcoholic. I just replied "What?" and she said "That's what OM's W told me". I texted OM's W about it and she said she was referring to a text she had sent my W. She had said if I'm "an alcoholic, why did you leave him for another addict?" So my takeaway there is my W must assume I told OM's W that I'm an alcoholic, for whatever reason. So either it was OM lying to his W about me or my W doesn't even remember her own lies.
I again told her that if she wanted to talk she could come by the house. She told me she needed to be close to the sick family member. I told her I hope they get better and to let me know when she wants to talk. She said "well they're not". I just said I was sorry.
She was posting aggressive stuff on Pinterest last night. "If I cut you out of my life, chances are you gave me the knife" and "People treat you horribly and get mad when you do the same to them". Probably referring to me, but I suppose could be about OM at this point. I know, I shouldn't be looking, but it's the only insight I have into her thinking at this point.
I still want the closure of a conversation. My IC agrees it will be good for me. But I think my W sees me as a closed chapter in her life and the A was a separate "loved and lost" event. Still blind that she was just preyed on and used by an addict. I don't necessarily expect an apology of any sort. She'll probably be agitated and aggressive like all of our conversations since she returned from seeing him on her work trip in December where I think the PA started. At the very least I want to say my part and apologize for my shortcomings in giving her attention, affection and emotional support since that's what left the M vulnerable. I owe her that much and that alone will give me some degree of closure.
W has been posting some heartache type quotes on Pinterest.
Speaking from experience, i'd recommend that you stop looking at her pinterest, facebook, etc. It is snooping, which breaks one of Sandi's rules. Its bad for you and bad for thr relationship.
Originally Posted By: brizz
I still want the closure of a conversation... But I think my W sees me as a closed chapter in her life and the A was a separate "loved and lost" event.
I'm in the same situation. I want closure and she sees our marriage as a closed chapter. However, I'm DBing which means im ignoring my need for closure, applying 180s and LRT, and talking to a DB coach. That is helping more thwn my counselor.
M:39 W:36 - D1:2 D2:6 11/19/16 BD1: ILYBNILWY, EA/PA Dec/Jan: MC, pursuing, not DBing 1/11/17 BD2: W wants 1 month break 2/1/17: Divorce Remedy. Start DBing 2/17/17 BD3: W - separation to start D process
Your WW has a long way to come back from this. I think so.
It's serious decompensation in my view, deterioration of personality. There are always choices and hers haven't been the best.
I ask myself why would a spouse choose someone so unsuitable? For the record my ex the Giggalo ran off to Italy and has an A with a Russian ex stripper who has three children with 3 different men! Go figure.
You might look at RD500 spouse who lives with a homeless alcoholic who is abusive and jobless.
Or Rosalinda WH who is with a Russian Tramp after a green card.
Or Pink (noW Tita) WH who went for a French fancy with no knickers.
There are such choices here.
So why?
I have pondered this question considerably because it makes no sense to me. That's because it makes no sense.
It makes sense to the wayward though, however delusional and irrational, people behave it ways that suit them. It makes sense to them.
I think we might often lose sight of the fact that we are ok, that we may face changes with personal growth. Really our own side of the street is pretty clear of rubbish and needs some but not much cleaning. Our sand pit is ok to play in.
The worse the OP, the more I thought that makes no sense. I even recollect MCS who had a POM in his WW life who wasn't interested at all. The EA was real but in her head.
Of course As with those like this usually don't last. Until they do for a period.
So I get to the point where I say scrambled eggs for brains. Never be unscrambled.
All you can do is observe and get out of the way. Protect yourself from this and frankly stand.
There is a difference between snooping and Intel. You need Intel to know exactly your route. To know the truth. Snooping you don't need and besides such info is unreliable anyway. If the wayward has scrambled eggs for brains. They don't know or are all over the place. Plus posts get planted. And there can be OM2, 3, 4 etc in the pipeline, so eliminating one of them might not stop the others.
Detach is the key, observer mode.
Whilst I understand the message about children, be thankful that is not an extra dynamic you have.
And one last thing, go get tested. Really do it, be safe and healthy. This is high risk trusting a liar who is with a drunk and performing oral. I got tested, I can find the link for you if you need it. WH had lots of inappropriate contact with women, although of course he says he didn't.
To justify your WW will rewrite history too. It's a classic together with the blaming.
Stand as long as you want and need to. You have time.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thanks, Vanilla. Scrambled eggs for brains is exactly it. The OM couldn't be much worse of a person yet she still fell for it. WW is just so damn impressionable. Her best friend at work is in a toxic marriage and was constantly complaining about her husband. WW has always had a habit of adapting personality traits of these work friends because she has a hard time making friends and wants to fit in. Misery loves company and this friend actually encouraged her to leave me with comments like "You're so brave!" and "You're inspiring!" and made jokes about our situation.
Then OM enters the picture at just the right time filling her head up with garbage and she bought it. Her work friend knew about OM to some degree and encouraged it, too. One message in particular sticks out: "If OM goes back to his wife will you go back to your husband?" What kind of disgusting question is that to ask someone? Just an awful person. A true friend would be slapping some sense into someone talking about having an affair. I still acknowledge my faults that left the M vulnerable to this, but these other factors played a role, too.
So OM went to talk to his W yesterday and she relayed me the conversation. He still denies they had sex when WW was on her work trip to his town in December. I still really don't believe that. He says they only had sex "3 or 4" times. The last time he was here when he broke it off with WW is when he said oral happened. WW was on her period, he says. What's sick about that is he previously had said that occurred Saturday, 2/18 at night when he told his W earlier that day he was breaking it off with WW. Just had to use her 1 more time. He finally admitted he picked her up at the airport when she went on her work trip and they rode around alone to different job sites WW had to visit. He previously said he was driving around a "car full of people". He admitted he had told WW he was leaving his W, which he had never actually told his W. Not clear on if that means he was lying to WW about it or just hadn't told his W yet. I think he was lying to lead WW along further.
Still plan on talking to my IC tomorrow more about reaching out again to WW to see if she wants to talk.
I think closure is overrated. As long as she's still wayward, you cant believe anything she says anyway, so whats the point.
There's tons of things that I would love to say to my ex. Tons of things Id love to hear. But, really, all that is is me wanting to get that person to acknowledge they were wrong. To acknowledge my pain. To admit to being 'the bad guy'. To tell me that I deserved better. To accept their faults. To note my improvements. And so on.
Would that make me feel better? I dont really know. On the one hand, its certainly nice to hear those things. But on the other hand, I dont think it would help me to 'move on' - if anything it would possibly reignite some spark towards reconciling as it would show growth on their part.
In the end, I decided that I didnt need any of that. I know I did what I could. I know that Im in a good place. And I can only hope my ex is too. Ive essentially fallen off of the earth with respect to that other person and Im in a much better place psychologically for it.
So OM went to talk to his W yesterday and she relayed me the conversation. He still denies they had sex when WW was on her work trip to his town in December. I still really don't believe that. He says they only had sex "3 or 4" times. The last time he was here when he broke it off with WW is when he said oral happened. WW was on her period, he says. What's sick about that is he previously had said that occurred Saturday, 2/18 at night when he told his W earlier that day he was breaking it off with WW. Just had to use her 1 more time. He finally admitted he picked her up at the airport when she went on her work trip and they rode around alone to different job sites WW had to visit. He previously said he was driving around a "car full of people". He admitted he had told WW he was leaving his W, which he had never actually told his W. Not clear on if that means he was lying to WW about it or just hadn't told his W yet. I think he was lying to lead WW along further.
I feel like you are only hurting yourself more by continuing to contact OM's W like this. At this point, you know about the affair. So who cares about the grisly details? Does it matter whether they had sex 2 times or 200 times? Does it matter which things were lies? To me, every time you find a new piece of information, youre only going to do further damage to yourself and any potential reconciliation. You have the intel you need to know what you are dealing with. The details are only going to hurt YOU.
I feel like you are only hurting yourself more by continuing to contact OM's W like this. At this point, you know about the affair. So who cares about the grisly details? Does it matter whether they had sex 2 times or 200 times? Does it matter which things were lies? To me, every time you find a new piece of information, youre only going to do further damage to yourself and any potential reconciliation. You have the intel you need to know what you are dealing with. The details are only going to hurt YOU.
At this point the new information doesn't really hurt at all. It just is what it is. Just more pieces to a puzzle to get a fuller picture. I have an analytical mind so more information puts it at ease. OM's W is the same way and she's just trying to corroborate different information to see if he's still lying. If WW and I talk, any information I get from OM's W will do the same for me.
