I did not want to hijack Thorntons thread. But do you think that leaving a marriage is synonymous to addiction? That's how I read your post.
I do know that many of our spouses on here have addictive personalities. It seems to be par for the course or am I wrong? We kind of just write it off. It's kind of a norm in society too.. like not that big of a deal to a lot of people.
Is it the addiction that causes them to leave or just more prone with some one that resorts to addictive behaviors?
I know my ex had an addictive personality. Cigarettes, food, then later alcohol (I'm pretty sure) work (I think), possibly other stuff that would explain finances.
Maybe this would be a good screening process for future partnerships.
I will start by saying that I am in a very odd state at the moment. Sleep deprived is the term I think.
I was in Denver, CO, for work on Wednesday and Thursday. My flight home to Minneapolis was supposed to leave last night at 6PM. Well, it got delayed, then it got cancelled. The problem was that there were so many flights cancelled that the next available was on Saturday evening, and it involved 3 stops that would get me home Sunday around noon assuming that none of them got delayed. I was there with a co-worker and we were pretty stuck.
So I suggested we just rent a car and make it a road trip for the ages. We got a Camry from Hertz around 7:45PM and started heading North East. I took the wheel at Ft Morgain about 50 minutes in and drove the whole way home without batting an eye. My friend stayed up and talked with me until we hit Des Moines, the last 3 hours were solo with the sun coming up. It was a little over 900 miles to the airport and I got us there around 9:45AM this morning after filling the tank up. Then I had to give him a ride home before going home myself. I walked into my apartment at about 11:45 today and threw my arms up in the air in victory. I don't think I've done anything like that before, I think 8 hours was my cap previously, but I just felt up to the challenge.
Now I am way overtired. I fought off sleep today because I wanted to get a FULL night's tonight. But the caffeine and 7th wind is still in me and I haven't crashed yet, so why not post tonight. Just know that I'm a teensy bit loopy right now
J, I didn't mean that addiction causes divorce. I'm not saying it doesn't, that just wasn't what I was aiming at.
What I do think causes divorce is when people put their personal desires above their commitment. When people 'follow their heart' because somehow we've come to the idea as a society that if it 'feels right' it must be good. The problem is that during a marriage there are many times that staying together doesn't feel right, and by contrast anything else feels like the only option of ever being happy again.
The challenge with screen tests are that we are so indoctrinated with these ideas that they don't even stand up on the results. There is a saying "looks good on paper", meaning it sounds great but doesn't work. This is what I see when I evaluate our modern day approach to relationships. I referenced this a few months ago with my impatience for the new religion that we seem to be members of...the devotion to personal growth and self awareness that we are so confident will unlock the relationship we desire, the one we didn't settle for, the one we knew we deserved, the one that was different because we have learned the combination to the relationship fairy's safe.
The problem is that it is too wishy washy. The days of rigid beliefs are dying. People consider being with one partner their entire life as a loss because we aren't educating ourselves through failed relationships and determining what we need in a partner and testing for compatibility. Divorce isn't acceptable, unless our partners have addictions or personality disorders that result in perceived abuse because our experience doesn't match what we expect for having watched so many Dr. Phil episodes. And so on.
The problem is the entitlement to this fairy-tale relationship itself that is the problem. You want to talk about addictions killing marriage, it's not alcohol, or gambling, or pot, or porn, or facebook. It's the addiction to the fantasy of the relationship we think we deserve. This sneaky devil flies under the radar because it can't be measured in empty bottles or on a search engine history. It just perverts the mind, allowing resentment to foster, and giving life to a series of rationalizations that lead to the greener grass. And with the abandonment of hard and fast beliefs that were taught strictly and enforced by our society, there is simply nothing to stop the slid into oblivion.
The WAS's clearly exhibit this by walking. But just as many LBS's demonstrate the same outlooks and thought processes. Addiction is a desire, and it is this desire that leads people to trust again J. They want what they want so badly that they truly believe that they will make it work, because it has to. And they measure society's progress by our freedom to pursue individual happiness, again, believing that because it feels good this approach must be righteous. Because of their need and their faith in this approach they proceed with utter confidence into an arena that has never been more fraught with peril.
My friend I rode with last night is very actively religious. He is part of a community that excommunicates those that don't follow the beliefs of their religion. They encourage their members to be cautious about associating casually with those outside of those beliefs so as not to be exposed to erosion. They hold each other to these beliefs.
Unfortunately the penalty of leaving these communities is less than in the past. With social media and the world shrinking people can just 'start over' somewhere else, 'reinventing themselves' if it becomes inconvenient to follow those beliefs once they interfere with their own lives too deeply. And these same religions are losing ground fast, such as the Catholic Church using annulment of marriages as a work around to their traditional belief that divorce wasn't an option in the church. They have to or no one would attend anymore. They'd just switch teams because heaven forbid they miss out on the orgy everyone else is involved in.
At what point do people see with clarity what is really going on? How things actually play out?
I will admit is that I am no different. Granted I am repulsed by what I see when I look outside my window, but I too crave the promised land of the mature healthy relationship we've all been lead to believe exists if we just throw out enough traditions and churn through enough partners to find the one that works that way. While I do know that I would never walk out on a marriage, I do know that I would struggle with acceptance of the reality of what would follow another partnership, and I hypocritically have no interest in being the villain in someone else's narrative about how it's because of my shortcomings that they can't have the relationship they deserve. The fact is that I know my humanity, but I also know my worth, and it would be pearls before swine for me to date or for someone to date me.
Listen gang, I am not attacking anyone. I am absolutely in the minority here in what I believe. No one needs to defend their outlooks or beliefs. You've already won the popular vote by a landslide. We are all humans struggling through a very difficult evolution and dealing with the suffering and loss that comes partly by our own hand and partly as the price of admission into this world. I love all of you and respect you tremendously.
But if there is one place I've grown in from my BD it is in letting go of my need to put myself down. I used to say I was like the big guy that was 6'6 in school that was so afraid of bullying anyone that I allowed others to pick on me, that later as a parent didn't defend his children because he still had old hangups even when threats loomed and force was appropriate. I let my family down by not being as assertive as I should be. I have learned to separate my ego and desires from the clear sight and strength to act on that sight that has been given to me along with the responsibility to lead and protect my family and make a positive contribution to my community. When I see things differently I no longer assume I'm the crazy one. I'm open to that possibility, I challenge myself, but in the end I have to act based on what I believe is true, even when I'm in the minority. There are many times when people have been in the minority that weren't stupid or crazy, and I believe it's at least possible I'm one of them.
Not only am I not casting judgments at anyone, I am not making any sweeping conclusions either. I wasn't joking when I said that artificial intelligence might be our most realistic hope for sorting through this. I don't know that we can revert as a society to rigid belief systems. Even if they were better for us we are caught in the trap of being unable to let go of the short term freedom we get in our lives these days. Just like we might actually enjoy going for a walk on a nice day as a family and having a picnic, but youtube is just so compelling.
So I don't know what the future holds. I know I continue to evolve as well. Maybe someday I overcome my own addiction to the promised land. Maybe someday I am outspoken enough about this topic that someone that feels similar to me comes along and gravitates to what I'm saying. But that very line of thought almost contradicts itself as you can see. Which is why I'm spending a healthy and appropriate amount of time grieving for the reality of the situation. Which is that my marriage is dead, I'll never be able to replace the relationship with the mother of my children, and I don't see what I was always promised as a possibility in my life. What happens after I truly accept that or if I ever can is to be determined. In the meantime I have a life to live.
So J, not sure if I answered your question. I personally think screening addictions is a balancing act. I'm not encouraging people to shun standards or avoid destructive situations that are prominent, but nor do I think that transcending humanity is a reasonable goal for ourselves or our partners. In the end I really believe that a marriage isn't about what you get, it's about what you give, and because of that what matters is that two people stay together and do their part to be the person they think they themselves are entitled to. And letting go of resentment when it isn't reciprocated. That's what I believe. I just don't know I'm able to at this juncture.
DB Gang, once again I love you all and appreciate your companionship and support through life. I sincerely hope that all of your relationships prove me wrong, and those that don't still provide you a ton of joy and fulfillment and reasons to celebrate life for as long as they can. Take care!!!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Hi Sunny! Like you I don't have a ton to update on but it's good to keep up so we don't go totally MIA like Jelly does from time to time
All good on my end. I just posted a bit on Maybell's thread about work. Overall I'm enjoying my time and doing alright. Striving to get just a little further, but it's a long term plan that will probably pay off in 12-24 months, not 1-2, so I'm just pushing hard without tensing up if that makes sense.
Kids are super awesome. We finished Dune a while back and now are embarked on "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" series. That's fun. I really have to read slowly and explain things, not because it's too complicated, but because there are a lot of subtleties to the humor. That's great, it makes the reading more interactive and they love it when I read something, talk to them about what we read and explain the joke, then read it again. They laugh and get it and learn and enjoy our time together. Some of my favorite time of the day.
Chess puzzles are fun too. We do those every night. And work on some end games and openings. I don't know if I can really explain how much I love games, not just playing them but working on the techniques, practicing, studying, drilling. For decades I did it on my own in my own little bubble, now I am doing it with my kids and sharing it with them. It's a treat. Oh, taught them the card game 500 a few weeks ago, we'll play some more this weekend. That's a fun game too!
It's finally getting nicer up here in MN. I am looking forward to going on some hikes soon. I also have been cautiously in touch with my sister, the one that I've been borderline not speaking to since BD due to her involvement with XW and the divorce. But we met for lunch last week and I'll invite her on a walk with the kids. I want them to have an aunt and she'll always be my sister. I will keep some boundaries where needed and that may change some of our interactions in the future, but it doesn't mean we can't still have a relationship.
What else? Oh, it was my mom's birthday on Sunday. She has been such a tremendous help to me I wanted to make sure she knew how much I appreciate her. So I got tickets to the Twins Baseball game. She LOVES baseball, grew up going to the games by herself when she was 6 or 7, watching them whenever she could. When I was a kid watching baseball on TV she was uncanny, she'd say something and then the commentator would make the same observation a minute later. She's amazing. So I took her out to brunch at a nice cafe, then we bopped over to the Twins game. They got trounced but we had a blast. Then we came home and watched some Netflix. It was an awesome day.
Now I'll wrap up my work week and hang out with my kids some more. Nothing earth shattering but I wouldn't trade it for anything. Take care gang!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
But that's precisely the issue. I don't want the answer to life and everything to be 42. I'd like a larger number; something that would imply great importance. A large prime number would be perfect. But no, we have to live with 42. I worry about that constantly because it doesn't seem right and it doesn't seem fair. It's so completely unfair that I have to live my life in agony when so many other people are having wonderful lives because they're unaware of the significance of having such an insignificant value for the answer to life and everything. What can I do? Should I completely ignore 42 and hope that it grows into a more substantial number? Or, should I give it more attention until it becomes the number that I really need it to be? I don't understand why this is happening to me.
