I wonder if your husband was always abusive to some extent prior to the last 3 years he was extremely abusive. I keep a journal of everyday of my life for the past 30 years. I've had to throw some of them away because of abusive relationships prior to my marriage. I noticed from reading through the last few years that he had been exceptionally abusive. Yes, he was at times abusive before that but I guess I figured that one of us had to back down so things wouldn't get out of hand, and that person was me. He would say things like "You're going to piss me off.", and that was my cue to shut it. I usually did shut it just to keep the peace, If's funny, he would ALWAYS start a fight right before we went to my parents house for a holiday or b'day. He knew how much it meant to me for things to go well while we there, but he intentionally started something anyway. That's when I realized he was spiteful. It took me years to figure that out, too. He was letting something stew for a good month or even longer and strike when he thought it would hurt me the most. I never unsderstood why someone would purposefully want to hurt someone they love. I'm not saying that I'm above it, but I certainly wouldn't try to make someone's family gathering a disaster because of hurt feelings or a previous arguement. I know that spitefulness is a learned behavior. HIs mother is spitedul. I would be embarrassed if I was seen as spiteful. I'm already a know-it-all so the added spitefulness wouldn't bode well for me. When I finally confronted him about what he was dong before myfamily gatherings or before my bday, he kinda laughed about it. It was like he was proud that he had mastered the skill well enough to where I didn't notice it for a long time. I would say that it's childish behavior, but his mother does it, too. I guess no one is immune to spitefulness. It's sad and pathetic.
I wonder if you are aware that you are also holding on to a little hope. If not, what is it that keeps you from letting yourself go ahead and file for a divorce? I wonder if you make the same excuses that I do? I don't really know if I know if they are excuses but saying that hope is a possibility seems like an excuse to me. Sill, I haven't let go of the hope completely. You fine folks give me excellent advise on detachment, but I feel like my only way to fully detach is to get a divorce. I know in my head that this will end in a divorce. My heart says another thing. Bttrfly say to sit quietly. I wish I could do that.
Your h's behavior sounds like he's learned some passive-aggressive moves. This is a learned trait from childhood. You might want to do some reading on this.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you for responding! I've been thinking about the reconnection process and that's a tough one for me. The reason is because we do actually reconnect at different times but I mess it up. We'll start going to breakfast together and I listen intently to what he says and try to validate what he says. It's very difficult sometimes bc I've always been one who plays "devil's advocate" to give another perspective. The reason I do that is usually bc he or a friend is bit**ing and moaning about a boss, and I think that they need to understand every aspect of what's happened. H: Gerry [censored]. He has no idea what my responsibilities are without him adding more sh*t to my load." Me; I totally get it. I bet Gerry has a lot on his plate too, and probably hasn't learned how to delegate as well as you have." Well, I stopped doing that bc I know I'm suppose to validate only. BUT, after we start reconnecting and I start detaching again, he gets inappropriate in his behavior. I don't know if I should just stay dim after we do our breakfast's together or continue being super nice.(even if I don't want to) I rarely stay nice so I don't know why I used that as an option.
The last time I failed was when I had the flu. I text him and said "I have the flu and I don't feel like I can handle all this responsibitly right now." I was basically saying that I need him to step up as a human being in general. Help with the dogs or I don't even know what I meant, but I know that I was just testing him. His response "Instead of talking about responsiblities (we all have them), just tell me what you need." Well, that flew all over me. I mean, did I really think he was going to all the sudden start being a loving husband again?? No, I didn't. It's like I was setting myself up for failure. I immediately started telling him that I never thought he would be selfless enough to take care of me if I was an invalid. LOL! Talk about pathetic!!! That didn't go well, of course. He said that was the last outburst he was going to take and that it was OVER. We've both said that before a hundred times, so it's never been the end all when it's said. Still, I can't help but test those waters sometimes.
I need some advice on how to handle when we are getting along and he's asking to go to breakfast. If I know that i can't contain myself when he starts acting like a jerk again, should I not even go to breakfast with him? Maybe just find a reason not to go? We do have some nice interaction sometimes while reconnecting, but then something always happens. Why is it so difficult for me to find empathy in this man who I love and is severely depressed? I realize that he can't love me while he's depressed, but the stuff he says cuts me to the core. I give it back, of course. This is the reason that I thing this will end in a divorce. The betrayal, unrealistic lies, verbal abuse and then betrayal again...its all wrapped up in a pretty little package just waiting to be opened again. I know one thing for sure...Things would have gone a lot smoother had I behaved differently I'm so very tired of beating myself up, too. Still, I know I'm going to fail at this every time.
For the last 7 years he has shown rages. For the first 4 years these would come every 3-6 months. Other than that he was a little controlling, lazy, and self-involved. Over the last 3 years I started seeing gaslighting, lying, entitlement, full on rages, silent treatments, complete disconnection, withholding of emotion and affection. Over the last year it has been ramped up even more. Since October when he left the second time, he has been ice cold with occassional spews.
He is definitely temperature checking frequently (about once a week since October). Pretty consistent. Almost like clockwork. Seems very concerned about the kids and me getting too far away from him. The analogy I use it that we are balloons and he has to jerk the string every once and a while to make sure we are still tethered to him.
My counselor says she has never seen the WS insist on the LBS relocating near him. I think this is just to keep an eye on us/control us/maintain a view to coming back someday. Something. We are not moving.
This guy he is now has not been there the whole time. That is what makes me think MLC. The timing is spot on. The background is there. The behaviors are consistent.
He does love to ruin holidays, birthdays/anniversaries, etc. as well as vacations.
I am aware that there is a little hope left. I want to kill it. That is why I'm turning my focus to me (even more so than the kids rights now). I just signed up for my first Orange Theory class (thank you leahsue)!
You wanting to kill that little bit of hope is exactly how I feel. I would have never thought I would feel this way about my marriage.
It seems like your H is extremely arrogant. Mine is, too. I didn't really ever see him as arrogant before bc he put on a charade for so long prior to MLC. It's so obvious to me now as to who I was married to. I guess I thought it was enough for me at the time, but that's not the case anymore. I'm not saying that I'm in any way thinking about finding someone else who will give me more, but I ain't settling for less next go round.
I was thinking about you asking about the signs of rock bottom and thought about what has to happen for that to come about. They have to lose EVERYTHING they hold dear in their life. Well he!!..that could take forever for them to preceive that's what's happened. I guess it depends on how much they hold dear to them, but what about what comes alone during MLC that they hold dear to their heart?? Those are subjects we know nothing about, so I would we ever know if they have lost it or not? This crap is never ending.
I'm so glad that you are working on yourself. I am, too. There's no way for us to control what these wreckless humans are doing. I use to think that if I could only get him to come home that I could keep his drinking in check. Well, that's awfully arrogant of me to think I could have that much influence over him. Sure, I could nag him about it till the cows come home, but he would only resent me for it later. That's what always happened, so what's up with me wanting to go back there? It's probably bc I'm worried about him drinking and driving, but a lot of it has to do with control. My marriage was volatile. I know that now. There will have to be an act of God in order for that to change. I pray, but we all know that God ask that we do our part. That's not our timeline.
I just read up on passive-aggressive moves and you are so right about my H being this way. I honestly didn't know the meaning of this behavior. I see myself in some of those traits, too. I'm going to continue researching it so I'll learn how to not behave this way. That's important to me. Thank you for your suggestion! It's a huge eye-opener.
Question; How would you respond to my H if he was very friendly in some text exchanges but then stops cold? I know to stop the convo too but how do I react when he reaches out again? He reaches out and then will eventually will want to have breakfast with me soon after we've been friendly again for a while. We're at friendly right now but I don't think I could go back to having breakfast's with him again. I probably could but I'm too bitter about the OW still. I don't know how to get past this hurt and bitterness.
I'm glad you were able to take some time to read up on passive-aggressive behavior. Try to remember that this is a learned behavior.
If your h reaches out and is friendly, there is no harm in being friendly. What I would suggest is that you don't respond back quickly. I would wait a bit before responding back. This sends the message that you aren't sitting there waiting for him to message you. It gives him the impression that you are busy. If he asks why you didn't respond back asap, just say, "h, I was busy". You do not have to go into detail w/him.
They do reach out and then pull back. This is typical behavior so there's no need to get upset or feel desperate and contact him. Sometimes, they do this to play the came of distance/pursuit to see if you will take the bait and pursue them. Don't!
Have you thought about changing things up and not going to breakfast w/him every so often? You do have control over your life and can decide whether this is a good idea or not. If you don't feel comfortable with going to breakfast or doing things w/him, gradually find other things to do or suggest a different time/date. You have to decide what you are comfortable with and go from there.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I know the whole breakfast thing is coming up and I don't want to go. The problem with me cutting him off with "I'm busy" and leaving it at that is he gets very cold. He knows I'm not a one-line responder, so when I do get short, he automatically gets short and cold with me. I don't like going back and forth with the hot and cold. Not in the way to save my marriage but to be on a friendly basis with him. Even if we do end up in a divorce, I still want to be able to be friendly with him.
He can't stand it when I won't go with him to his family functions. What's up with that? I think he just wants to keep up appereances. It's hard for me to say no because I care for his family deeply. I love them. I DO say no when I want to say yes bc I feel like I have control over that part. I wonder if it would be ok to see his family on outings without him..? I don't want him thinking that I still consider them a huge part of my life in the hopes that we will reconcile. I already know that they will greet me with open arms if that were to happen. Well...I shouldn't assume that but it's how I 'feel' about it. They may treat me like a one-eyed monster when it's all said and done. Lol
Question; How do you feel about someone getting half of the spouse's 401K in a divorce settlement? We depleted mine years ago for whatever reason but he has some from his recent job. He will HATE me if I go after that and I'm sure he will make my life a living he!! If I do ask for it. I saw Bttrfly give her H half her 401k (with grace) but I know it bothered her bc he always said that he thought it was stupid to do the 401k. I don't remember his reasoning behind that thought but he sure didn't hesitate in asking for it. Everyone I talk to says it's a crappy thing to do. Not on here, but people I've asked in person. What say you on this subject?
Then if you aren't a one liner type of person, then think about doing something that day and being honest w/him and say, "H, I have made plans to do something else that day" and I would make sure you had something planned. You are the only one that controls your life, not your h. Put your big girl panties on and start saying no once in a while. There's no harm in turning down doing things w/him. After all, you have your own life to live just as he is.
As for his family functions, it sounds like he wants to keep up appearances that things are okay between you. If you go to the functions, the family assumes that you are okay with the separation and if you are there, they won't have the opportunity to ask him too many questions about where you are and how you are doing. It's all about appearances.
If he has a 401k, I believe you are entitled to half of it, just as you are entitled to half of his retirement and don't forget...if you've been married 10 years or more, when you become of age, you are entitled to some social security $$$ if he's paid into social security instead of a regular retirement system. Of course, you have to remember, you have to be still single and not remarried to get that SS money.
I would speak to a lawyer about the 401k and you know what, if you end up getting a divorce, I wouldn't care one bit if he got angry about having to either give you a lump sum payment of your share of the 401k, pays you in increments or waits until he needs to take the money out.
Trust me, if the shoe was on the other foot, he would go after anything and everything he could in the way of cash settlement. You have to look out for yourself in this matter and to heck w/his attitude. Speak to a lawyer about this as soon as possible. Know your rights and what you are entitled to and do not discuss this stuff w/others because you do not know who has lips that flap and will pass the info on to him.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'll try to do what you say and say "no" to him. He certainly doesn't deserve any of my company. He does this thing where if I don't make myself available, I'm the B**tch that he left, so good for him that I'm showing my true colors. It's so annoying to be seen this way when I've been more than accomadating. I will say "no" from now on.
I knew that about keeping up appearances and that makes me angry. I knew it but wanted to go anyway because I missed his family. Well, I don't miss them that much anymore. They know what's up and won't ask him questions but I think he's afraid it will make him look bad bc he knows he's thrown me away. That wouldn't look good to his family and he knows it.
He's so arrogant. It's all about him and how he looks. This is why he says that if I tell his mom the things he's done or show her the awful emails he's sent, he will cut me off money wise. I don't really care about the money anymore and really want to tell her everything. I believe she would tell him to straighten up for the sake of the family's reputation. Should I tell her anything at all? Maybe tell her about the 28 yr old tart so his cover is blown? Wouldn't that take some control away from him?
I will take half of the 401k if it's something I'm entitled to. I still don't think it's really fair but you're right, he would do that to me in a heartbeat.
