A familiar story with questions..

[Rose888]

180 means identifying things in your marriage that aren't working and changing your behavior (often by doing the opposite of what you typically do, hence the name) to see if that improves the situation.

If the new behaviors yield better results than the old, then you keep doing them forever, or until they stop working and/or you think of an even more effective way to behave that yields better results for your marriage.

And the practice of identifying things that aren't working and changing your behavior is a lifelong practice.

[Rose888]

One thing that can be surprising: piecing is a decision, not an emotion.

Spouses don't have to feel "in love" to decide to piece.

I see some LBSes who get their egos tied up in how their spouses feel about them. In my experience, piecing comes first and then emotions (hopefully) follow, but the LBS needs to be patient and not crowd their spouse.

[RR17]

And I will add a voluntary decision on both sides. Don't force it LBSs it's not worth it. Don't even trust it at first. Remeber you been dealing with a rollercoaster and guess what? The rides not over yet.

I speak from experience from the last time. Sounds like what you have been wanting to hear for months maybe years, but proceed with caution.


Edit - threads combined - stick to one thread until 100 posts - Cadet

[RR17]

180 means identifying things in your marriage that aren't working and changing your behavior (often by doing the opposite of what you typically do, hence the name) to see if that improves the situation.

If the new behaviors yield better results than the old, then you keep doing them forever, or until they stop working and/or you think of an even more effective way to behave that yields better results for your marriage.

And the practice of identifying things that aren't working and changing your behavior is a lifelong practice.

Rose if this is the case then I'm all confused. As posted before 180 is a tactic or method to use in certain SITs.

The 180

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.


Not sure this is to be practiced forever. Someone is confused here.

[Rose888]

Ah. I was thinking of the guidance in the section "Do a 180" in chapter 6 of Divorce Remedy.

Not the same thing.

[RR17]

I think there is much confusion on this. The way I found this site was reading about the 180 Turn around on someone else's blog and began searching and found this site.

[RR17]

BTW, I have violated the rules or 180 today. W woke me at midnight and I couldn't get back to sleep for several hours.
Woke this morning hoping to attend church when oldest D call from 2 rooms away and asked if I can take her to a friend's to leave on a beach trip. A trip I was never made aware of.
This along with the deprivation caused me to miss church and I let W know of my displeasure.
W apologized. Both for not informing me about the trip and for short notice and waking me. This is a big step for her. Apologies do not come easy.

Anyway, I did show slight anger and I feel I violated the rules.
Her response is, I'm sure a sign of something, but I don't know what.

I'm tired and grouchy.

[RR17]

So, late afternoon, W announces that both teens are out and it's is just the two of us for dinner and the only thing she can think of is sushi. Sorry TMI

Dinner was nice and I stepped out for a cigar after, until just before bedtime.
You know, leave early.

She is being super nice.

IDK, what's going on. Is it because of BD on Tues?
Is she behaving this way to eat cake of trying to make nice. I'm sure this is boring stuff to read, but I'm journaling to keep my head straight. It would be easy to fall for a ploy if I allowed myself. I'm suspicious. Is this an A fog thing?

Her behavior is unusual and perhaps it is just because I have backed off and she feels guilty, but it still seems very out of character.
Is she trying to throw me off of her trail?

I would love any input. Especially from former WWs.

[sandi2]

RR, that list you have copied and pasted is not Sandi's 37 rules. I think I know where you got it (from another member's post). IDK, but I think he was using the original list but cutting it shorter, and maybe giving his twist on some of them. There are a few places that could leave the wrong idea with the reader, IMHO. I considered saying something at the time when he first started passing that version around, but he has as much right to post what he wants, as I do. The reason I am speaking up now is b/c my name is attached. Here is the link to Sandi's 37 Rules:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072&page=1

Interestingly enough, a lot of posters have referred to them as "The 180". To be clear, they are only guidelines for the newcomer who has no idea which way to turn when they first arrive here. They are not "The 180". There is not "The 180". Everyone decides for themselves what they will do that is opposite of their usual behavior. That's the principle behind taking a 180 degree. Also, let me point out that a newcomer does not necessarily take a 180 degree in everything. Reading Divorce Remedy will better explain it.

At the bottom of the first page of Sandi's Rules is a link to another guide about the mindset of the WW. You may find it helpful to your situation.

I hope I have clarified a couple of things, and not made it more confusing.

[RR17]

Thanks for the clarification, Sandi2. It is obvious that much thought and consideration goes into the insight that you share.

I would love to hear your take on my Ws most recent behavior.

I know it probably won't really matter in the big picture but I think it might help others. If I hadn't been in this boat before I would easily fall for a short stretch of good behavior.
I have to remind my self that she BDed a D on me just a week ago.