A familiar story with questions. II

[RR17]

Theoden makes good suggestions. In your last post you said it was the not knowing that was really eating at you. I assume you mean not knowing if there is OM? If that's the case, then hire someone to find out. However, I doubt it will affect the D.

What is eating at me is not knowing her current state. The OM is an issue, but I am willing to put that on hold for now. I have seen her juggle the EA and try to appease me the last go round, and I don't see it like that now.

[doodler]

What is eating at me is not knowing her current state.

RR17,

Anecdotal evidence suggests that wayward wives go through a state change every 18 minutes, except on Tuesdays, when they go through a state change every 21.5 minutes. Knowing your wife's current state is an exercise in futility.

What you can do is decide how you want to live your life and get out and live life to the fullest. Your wife might decide she likes what you're doing with yourself and then maybe she'll decide to hitch a ride with you.

[RR17]

Well, the latest change has lasted a whole week.

[AnotherStander]

In all honesty, I think she was mad that I would not move out for 90 so she can make up her mind.

And good move on that by the way. Lots of LBS's get bullied into moving out, not only does that displace the LBS and give the WAS exactly what they want but ironically it also makes the LBS look weak and powerless to the WAS. They lose what little respect they may have had for them. If you hold your ground they may pitch a fit, but they will still respect you for it.

I pushed her to seek the D as I was mad and at that time felt more strongly about an A.

I guess you know now not to do that. Your job is to REMOVE ALL PRESSURE (assuming you don't want D). That means no R talks, no D talks, no "serious" talks at all really unless she initiates them.

Is it stupid to think that the reality and finality of a D has settled in, that and the lower pressure sitch that I created by following the rules? That that is the cause of her change in attitude?

Probably not, it's far too early in the sitch for her to be changing her mind. I mean anything is possible, but it would be very unusual.

In reading about boundaries, both here and elsewhere is that they must be stated.

I think you are still misunderstanding what boundaries are. Not to beat a dead horse, but your example of telling your W she is not allowed to pretend everything is OK, that is not a boundary because the reality is she IS allowed to pretend everything is OK. And a boundary isn't about telling someone what they can't do, it is about coming to a mutual agreement and telling them what the ramifications will be if they don't comply with the agreement. For example, your W shouts at you all the time. You finally sit down with her and ask her not to anymore and she agrees. But then a week later she's doing it again. So you set a boundary:

"Wife, when you scream at me it makes me extremely uncomfortable and it upsets the kids because they can overhear you from anywhere in the house. You've agreed not to, but you continue to do it. The next time you have an outburst I am going to take the kids and we will leave the house until you can get yourself under control."

This boundary is reasonable because no one should tolerate getting yelled at, it's a form of emotional abuse. It's enforceable because there are ramifications that have been stated, and they can be executed if the boundary is breached.

An example of a smaller boundary might be that you've agreed to do the dishes each night, but when it comes time you always make an excuse not to. So your W might tell you "H, you agreed to do the dishes but you never do. From now on when you don't do the dishes then the next day I won't be making dinner."

I hope that helps you understand it a little better. An added complexity in this is boundary setting gets more difficult after BD. The WAS considers the M over, so using your example where you want to set a boundary with your W that she needs to keep you informed of the D, what consequence can you set for that? You're going to leave her? File for D? That's not really a consequence to her, because that's what she wants anyway. When it comes to a WAS you can't really set an enforceable boundary regarding them talking to you or keeping you informed of anything.

What I want is to know what her temperature is. I want to ask her what are her current thoughts and feelings.

Temperature checking is not a good idea, but we all end up doing it at some point. Here's the thing about temperature checking- you are not going to hear what you want to hear. Here's why- if she changes her mind and wants the M back YOU WILL BE THE FIRST TO KNOW. So the very fact that you have to ask means that she is not there yet, and thus whatever answer she give you will NOT be the one you want. In fact it will most likely make you sad, upset and sorry you asked.

[TBSakaJ9]

I temp checked about 3 weeks ago and did not like the answer I received so I agree don't ask.

[RR17]

Thanks for your helpful reply.
I do understand boundaries to a better extent as defined by this group. I also know that several other sources have a little different take. Really doesn't matter, like you said WW/WAW are almost useless to set boundaries with.

But for all you boundaries fans, yes I told her 3 years ago, that if I caught her cheating again, it would be over. Told her in MC.

I guess you know now not to do that. Your job is to REMOVE ALL PRESSURE (assuming you don't want D). That means no R talks, no D talks, no "serious" talks at all really unless she initiates them.

Yes, this was before I became versed.

Quote:
Is it stupid to think that the reality and finality of a D has settled in, that and the lower pressure sitch that I created by following the rules? That that is the cause of her change in attitude?


Probably not, it's far too early in the sitch for her to be changing her mind. I mean anything is possible, but it would be very unusual.

It has become aware to me that my reason for feeling this way is become of some show of empathy. Last night she asked if I was Okay. Wow, that doesn't come easily from her. It sure didn't come when she was involved in the EA the last go-round.
This is a person that shoves down her own feelings, let alone take on someone else's. DR says believe what you see not what you hear.

Temperature checking is not a good idea, but we all end up doing it at some point. Here's the thing about temperature checking- you are not going to hear what you want to hear. Here's why- if she changes her mind and wants the M back YOU WILL BE THE FIRST TO KNOW. So the very fact that you have to ask means that she is not there yet, and thus whatever answer she give you will NOT be the one you want. In fact it will most likely make you sad, upset and sorry you asked.

I do feel comfort knowing that we all do it. I'm really okay hearing about anything, once in the right mind. I also don't take it at face value. Mixed signals are the torture when you are trying to be intentional with your actions. AKA DBing

I agree that in most cases once the W makes up her mind that she wants the M, that the H should be the first to know. Except with my W. Communication is the real problem here. IMHO. She can't express herself and I don't read minds.

Well I did tippy toe into that territory and she said she felt the same. Whatever that means, IDK.
I also asked her what are some things that she thought I needed to work on. After several minutes and searching, she said that I was standoffish and that sometimes I cussed too much.
I inquired about the standoffish and the best I could get was unapproachable. I'm sure this is in response to the fact that I have claimed that she didn't show affection.

[RR17]

So here is a puzzler for me. As of now I still don't know if W is WAW or WW. I have for many years french pressed coffee and brought it to her before she wakes. Should I continue? BTW, it's 6:30 and I already took it to her.

I struggle with becoming the best man I can and detaching.

[Maika]

I have for many years french pressed coffee and brought it to her before she wakes. Should I continue?

No. Stop doing things for her immediately that you always used to do.

[RR17]

For the most part, she is acting "as if" nothing has ever happened. We talked about D plans and she said she was not pursuing. Said she had to take a few days to digest. That she didn't plan to do any surprise filing.

She enjoys going to dinner even without the Ds and sharing her day's events.

I let her do most of the talking and we had sex twice this week. IDK

Some things are still odd. She is not a good actor and I don't know what to think. Personally, I would like to address the problems but that is difficult when you don't have R talks.

[RR17]

So last night we had a mini R talk. Her initiation. I let her do most all the talking. I validate. I told her I felt her moving closer recently and she said that I was seeing things. That it was always there and that I just never saw it.
I'm not buying it. She has been more respectful and has acted differently. Obviously, I have been paying closer attention, but I know there has been a change.

Here is where I need a decoder. She said that lately, she had been just trying to get along. That for some time now, that she feels so alone when we are together. So so terribly alone. I validate and pointed out that when she spoke that I had made a point some time back to give her my full attention. Doesn't matter. I asked her to help me understand. She repeated herself and tuned out.

WTH is this supposed to mean? Is it something I am supposed to act on?

So anyway. I still made coffee this morning but didn't deliver it. Figured it was a good segway to get back on detaching.