A familiar story with questions. II

[RR17]

Should I have cleaned up the poop or give her a taste of what it will be like if I'm gone?

You know, a couple of weeks ago our dog crapped all over the living room. It really stunk. This is normally something I clean up. I mean, I ALWAYS cleaned up the poop! Instead, I covered it with some old towels and left it, then I went to work. W apparently left it alone and went to work. So the kids (who are old enough to stay at home alone) had to sit in the house and smell it all day.

It was still there when I got home from work. I went out and met a friend. When I got back from that later in the evening, W had finally cleaned it up. That gave me some satisfaction.

She will get the dogs after D is final. So I figure I was totally justified in showing her what life will be like when she doesn't have a H around to do stuff for her.

My exact thought process.

[RR17]

So, as W and I are still sharing the same bed, last night she tells me that tomorrow she has an out of town business trip and needs to get up at 5am.
(Sound familiar and suspicious?)

Although I am an early riser, this is still before I usually get up and she asks if she should sleep in another room. Emotionless I say it doesn't matter.

Due to the early day, she showers that night and I start to process. This stinking feeling starts to settle in. Once out of the shower I state that since I don't really trust where she is going, I decided I would prefer she sleep elsewhere.
Non Defensively, she says "would you like to see the email regarding the trip?" I say "not really". She gives a few more details and I ask if she prefers to sleep in our bed. She says "yes". I say fine then.

I then asked if she resented my questioning her story. She said not at all.
This morning she provided a print out of where she was going.

I know I try to read too much out of these interactions. It's what I do.

[SJW]

Hi RR

I think you were perfectly justified in requesting her to sleep in another room. If she doesn't want to be in M why would she want to share a bed with you anyway?

SJ

[sandi2]

Sandi,

Some of the detaching/180 rules seem to make me a worse H.

Maybe that's the point. Autonomy

Should I have cleaned up the poop or give her a taste of what it will be like if I'm gone?

Forget the poop for a minute, b/c that's like straining a gnat and swallowing a camel.

You still seem to be confused about "rules", techniques, etc. So...........maybe you need to simplify and lay aside some of that terminology for a few days. What do you think?

Another area I see that may be confusing, is the part about improving yourself. My observation is that you are seeing it as meaning to improve as a husband.......only. That is why the 37 rules, 180's, detaching, etc. seem contradictive to you. You are frustrated b/c you see these techniques getting you farther away from being a better H. Am I right in this observation?

When we tell you to look inside yourself and dig deep to really evaluate how you've measured up since getting M.........of course, it includes being a H, a father, and whatever other roles you have..........but most importantly......as a man.

The bomb drop is usually a wake up call for a lot of men, and they want to spring into action to make up for the previous years. However, the WW has moved way past the point of wanting the MR to improve. That's what the H doesn't get. She is not saying she wants to give the MR another chance. She no longer cares, and that harsh reality is very difficult for the H to accept. If the WW gives him the ILYBINILWY speech, she is telling him she is done............but, he hears her saying something else. He hears, "I want a good MR". So, he sets about doing all the things he thinks will make her happy and will restore her loving feelings. So he jumps into cleaning the house, running her errands, being more passive. catering to her, accommodating her, smothering her with his presence, etc. But these things are not what he needs to do with a WW, so it pushes her further away......and a lot faster. Why? B/c those actions do not cause her to feel desire for him as a man......and certainly not as her H.

The problem with his new resolve is that he's not grasping the reality of the situation. He is not separating himself as a man from his role as H. When that happens, the lines become blurred and his view of the situation seems to be out of focus and it's as if he has forgotten how to think and operate with his innate abilities that come with being a man. Therefore, he is left confused and frustrated with the DB process b/c his focus is on appeasing his WW. When he reads about DBing, he feels that following that advice will make him a worse H. Isn't DBing about saving the M? Yes, but one must start from the foundation first, which means saving the individual that has come to the board to seek help.

Somewhere along the way in his M, the H has lost an important characteristic that distinguishes his manhood. It has pretty much been buried for years, and by the time he hears the bomb drop, his identity as the male leader and head of his family.......has almost faded away. It has taken the back seat, succumbing to his nice guy syndrome, and now the results are staring him in the face. And b/c of that^^^^^^^^^, he has misconceived ideas of what it will take to make his W happy and save his M. So, with his NGS in tact, he thinks if he can show his W how willingly he does nice things for her........it will get the MR back on track. But, it doesn't work. It doesn't work b/c he must improve himself as a man before he can be a good H. That is the order to follow. That's why we say to focus on yourself and become the very best version of "you" as possible. It has nothing to do with turning cartwheels to impress the WW. The focus is not making her happy by doing x, y, & z. In fact, I will go as far to say the objective should not be about making her happy. He cannot make her happy or cause her to feel admiration and desire for him as a man........until she can respect him.

His first objective is to find his b@lls, improve himself as a man, and redefine his position in the home as the leader. When he rediscovers his manhood, it should take care of a lot of blurred lines in his role of H.........if he doesn't allow fear and bullying to overtake him. That's not to say he won't have to improve some skills in the area of being a good H, but if he starts by improving himself as a man first.........he will start with the foundation and work upward in tackling issues. Once the W respects him, it will take care of most of the problems of her waywardness..........but nothing will work until she feels that respect for him as a man and as her H.

There can be a lot more said on this subject, but like I've mentioned previously, it can't all be said in one post.

[Tread]

Sandi,

Thanks for breaking that down. Now it all makes sense. Because there have been times where bettering myself seemed to contradict what I felt my W wanted from me. But it's all about getting the respect first.

[leahsue]

Wow, Sandi, another great post. You truly have a way of explaining things in what could otherwise be a very confusing dialogue. Thankful for you.

[RR17]

Another area I see that may be confusing, is the part about improving yourself. My observation is that you are seeing it as meaning to improve as a husband.......only. That is why the 37 rules, 180's, detaching, etc. seem contradictive to you. You are frustrated b/c you see these techniques getting you farther away from being a better H. Am I right in this observation?

Yes, somewhat. I do understand that the cartwheels and such don't cut the mustard.

The bomb drop is usually a wake up call for a lot of men, and they want to spring into action to make up for the previous years. However, the WW has moved way past the point of wanting the MR to improve. That's what the H doesn't get. She is not saying she wants to give the MR another chance.

I did all that in Aug. 2013. I had a wake-up revelation and made changes in my relationships with the whole family. The changes stuck but as you said it didn't win the W.

Somewhere along the way in his M, the H has lost an important characteristic that distinguishes his manhood. It has pretty much been buried for years, and by the time he hears the bomb drop, his identity as the male leader and head of his family.......has almost faded away. It has taken the back seat, succumbing to his nice guy syndrome, and now the results are staring him in the face. And b/c of that

This is what I struggle with. I can't figure out what that might be. I don't think I suffer from NGS.

[RR17]

His first objective is to find his b@lls, improve himself as a man, and redefine his position in the home as the leader. When he rediscovers his manhood, it should take care of a lot of blurred lines in his role of H.........if he doesn't allow fear and bullying to overtake him.

I can say with confidence that that has not been the case this BD go-round. I didn't beg and bargain. I was angry, not panicked or visually scared. Not like last time.

I think you have helped me better understand. I'm not sure I know what to do.

Thanks Sandi!

[sandi2]

What I have seen work is when the H dumps the WW. Whether in his attitude, behavior, or legally. I use the word "dump" for a reason. It is much more effective when he dumps her, rather than him trying to survive what she does to him. You know how it affected you when you got the bomb drop. Well, that describes how she feels to see you actually dumping her. But it must be legit, b/c pretense doesn't work very well. Not only for him to dump her.......but to show no interest in her at all, and him living it up.

[25yearsmlc]

RR

you mentioned that you reacted differently in 2013. But you also said you worked on yourself and felt you had improved as a man and h.

is that still how you see it?


Did she say, back then, that she wanted to reconcile and repair the m?

Is she different now, than she was back then?


If you could go back in time to that ordeal, (just for 5 minutes!), would you do anything differently?