I agree with Sandi. Don't attend that party. Also everything she said is exactly what happened in my own sitch. That respect slowly faded away to the point where I am not even sure how to really get it back. Being nice and kissing her a** will not work at all for you.
Wives, especially young W's, are guilty of testing their H's. A woman needs her H to be stronger than she is. It's something born in us. If we are going to choose a man to give ourselves to, have father our children, trust him to lead and protect our family........he had better be a heck of lot stronger than we are.
This makes absolute sense to me as I am reading it. She has made emotional signs to this in the past (obvious I was not hearing her).
Quote:
Women will take unresolved issues and push down into their hearts. It turns into deep resentment. Imagine years of resentment packed down in a person's heart and how it would affect the MR.
Along with resentments come disrespect.
Well, this all affects her attraction and desire for you. Men can absolutely kill the attraction by being passive and leaving the decision making up to the W. She is designed in such a way that she has to respect her H as a man, in order to desire him.
It is like you have been traveling along side our relationship for the whole time. As I have developed and am reading information now that I am at my breaking point. This comment you just mentioned is so clear to me. I have noticed her desire begin to fade; as I was becoming more and more codependent and/or submissive.
Quote:
I suspect you have taken the back seat for a long time in your MR. You are a nice guy and think that by giving her the reigns in the MR she'll be happy. Her wants has come first, and you tell yourself that's the way it is in M. When she shows little signs of disrespect, you tell yourself it's no big deal.......and you suck it up and keep your mouth close. In the meantime, she is not interested in being intimate with you.
Yes; this all rings a bell to me. From my perspective; this has been her main complaint; the lack of intimacy, which I am begging to see it stems from the whole scenario you have laid out. She feel in love with me because who i WAS; she tested me, and I began to fail those tests...and failed and failed... she began her hurt, resentment, and starting building walls. I tried things to make it better (leaving little notes, giving more massages, etc.); but as we all know. Doing the same thing that isn't working will not turn to new results. Instead of leaving notes, and telling her I loved her; I should have taken charged in redeveloping my self-confidence and boundaries within our relationship. These are steps I am taking now by myself (180); which I should have to rebuild that intimacy, respect, affection, etc.
Quote:
I don't think you should attend the party.
Yes, agree. Before I saw this response, I did RSVP - No to her sister. I will be going to the Lake House with my buddies.
Do you think I should contact her on the day her dad passed?
Thank you Tread; I am not going to attend. Do you think I should contact her to let her know how hard of a day I know it is for her? For her dad's passing day?
In my above explanation I try to articulate what she thought the problem was. She explains she does not feel like we 'grew' together as one. More or less we just became best friends/roomates and not a strong married couple. We did not develop ourselves. We had an extreme lack of intimacy.
The board has seen this scenario many times. Sometimes a couple becomes so burdened down with responsibilities of life that they are too exhausted to give the MR the proper nourishment it needs. Other times, the lack of intimacy is caused from a lack of attraction. Women are more complex than men, therefore, it's usually something in the woman that is the root of the couple's lack of intimacy. I won't say it's 100% in every case, but in most cases, it points toward the woman. Men pass it off as the W having a low sex drive..........and that is certainly possible, especially during changes in their hormones. However, when this turns into months.....even years of barely any sex at all, it is usually something hindering the W's feelings toward her H.
It's true we women don't talk in a language H's understand. We often speak in codes, and you guys were never given the code interpretation book. If I had to guess, your W became disenchanted at some point after the honeymoon period. She may have experienced disappointments, or saw her nice easy-going H not taking charge the way she thought a man should handle things. Wives, especially young W's, are guilty of testing their H's. A woman needs her H to be stronger than she is. It's something born in us. If we are going to choose a man to give ourselves to, have father our children, trust him to lead and protect our family........he had better be a heck of lot stronger than we are.
We know we are emotional creatures, and we want someone stronger than we are........to trust, draw strength, lean on them for support, thrive on their adoration and love........and someone who will not be a doormat and take cr@p from us. Therefore, we will test him.
We women need to feel "in love" with our H. Those in-love feelings are tied to the respect we feel toward our H. If the respect begins to slip.......so will our sexual attraction for our H. Here's the problem. Women will take unresolved issues and push down into their hearts. It turns into deep resentment. Imagine years of resentment packed down in a person's heart and how it would affect the MR.
Along with resentments come disrespect. At first, it's not that noticeable, but it becomes moreso as time marches on. Little remarks she makes, or negative attitude, facial expressions or body posturing that lets you know she is not completely on board. Well, this all affects her attraction and desire for you. Men can absolutely kill the attraction by being passive and leaving the decision making up to the W. She is designed in such a way that she has to respect her H as a man, in order to desire him.
You say you were great friends. That's fine, but it doesn't build desire in her. She can be friends with anyone. She can have many friendships. However, when a couple has a friend relationship instead of a lover relationship.........the attraction goes out the window and the M is in danger. She is designed to be in love with one man. If she doesn't feel in love with her H, she will not be happy in her M.
I suspect you have taken the back seat for a long time in your MR. You are a nice guy and think that by giving her the reigns in the MR she'll be happy. Her wants has come first, and you tell yourself that's the way it is in M. When she shows little signs of disrespect, you tell yourself it's no big deal.......and you suck it up and keep your mouth close. In the meantime, she is not interested in being intimate with you. Why? B/c you put up with her bad treatment, and you continue being her "friend" in spite of how she treats you. The attraction she needs to feel for you is gone. That's the bad news. The good news is that it's possible to get it back.
Does any of this ring any bells with you?
Quote:
I have something else too. It is our first nieces birthday Saturday (of labor day - Sept 2); and even though she has already told her family thru text that we are splitting up; her family is super close to me. They did invite me to the party, and my W has told me in the past she would not care if I came because we are such a close family. Also her dad passed on Sept 1 so it will be a super emotional weekend for her. I am not sure if I should attend the party or not.
I don't think you should attend the party. These are her family members.......not yours. No matter how close you feel to her family, they are her blood. They will always be her blood. Although they will be gracious toward you, I think it causes a certain awkward uncomfortable feeling for everyone. You can send a gift, and thank her parents.......but have other plans. This is part of the package when a couple separates/divorces.
Holt cow, that is so how my sitch is...geez
Married 9: Together 11 M:37 W:35 S:2 D:7 Bomb dropped 6/3/2017 W moved out 7/1/2017 Separation Filed: 8/1/2017 Modified to Divorce: 8/21/2017 Divorced: 10/5/2017
Do you think I should contact her on the day her dad passed?
That's a tough one. Ordinarily, I discourage engaging in any traditional celebrations/activities with her and her family. However, when there has been a death, I do think that's an exception. Since you have just recently separated, I suggest you send a short and simple text. Something like, "Thinking of you and your family today". (I'm not that good in wording things). Don't try to play on emotions, or encourage her to talk about it.
Just for anyone's information about deaths occuring in the W's family, I have seen occasions IRL where a couple had been split and someone from her immediate family would pass away. The LBH would attend the funeral and be so emotional he'd nearly have to be carried out. I have seen this more than a couple of times. And when I looked at the W, she appeared disgusted with her LBH. In each case, the W was not moved by her H's display of emotions. Oh, it drew attention alright, but it was not in favor of the LBH. I've also known of H's who would use the sad occasion to try and get closer to his W. In one case, the W used the support from her H, but then quickly tossed him when things settled down. The others didn't get anywhere. I believe in paying your respects and expressing sympathy to the family. Anything beyond that, is too much.
Birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, etc., should not be celebrated with the person who no longer wants you in their life! Many wives who leave the M still wants the benefits that came from being that man's wife.........but she doesn't want the responsibility of being his W.
There will be all sorts of things that pop up, and you will wonder how to handle it. She no longer wants to be in a M with you. IMHO, going dark is the best route for you. You don't have to be a jerk, but you don't engage in activities you did as a couple.
While you are away from her, work hard on yourself. Find that man you use to be! Don't focus on her and what she's doing. She has to go through a process. It takes time. If you stay unavailable to her, she will eventually begin to miss you. She will hear through others what you are doing, where you are going, how you look, etc. she will even contact you sometimes. It's her way of keeping you hooked. She will throw you a few crumbs sometimes, as bait to keep you on her hook. Not that she wants you......but she wants to keep you where you are............pining for her and not having a life without her. She doesn't want you being happy without her. She doesn't want you to be interested in another woman. It's crazy. She doesn't want you, but she doesn't want anyone else to have you.
The best thing you can do is learn to be self-reliant. Read books about co-dependency, building self-esteem, etc. You need space away from her, so you can reinvent Chris, the man. Look at this separation as time just for you. Do whatever you want, and enjoy it.
Just so you know, I am pro marriage. I don't want to sound as if I am promoting divorce.
Don't be afraid of it. She may go through with the divorce, but you are going to be better than ever. Don't give her the impression you are trying to cling to her. You can say that you don't see divorce as an answer, but you won't stand in her way....if that's what she wants.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you Sandi for your comments. This is very very helpful. I will continue to post throughout this journey, hoping it can help the others. I will make sure to post any books which help me throughout the process as well.
I have a feeling, if I know her - the next step is going to be her reaching out asking why I have not called or texted. Do I continue to explain I am thinking things through? I cannot see that response working time and time again.
Eventually she will want to meet up and talk about our future; if that is the case. The first couple times; I will work the strategies (180; cheat sheet info, etc.). If she wants to discuss the M; is it then time where I express what I 'newly' want...the items from the book and how to actually put them in place (actions, not feelings)?
The board has seen this scenario many times. Sometimes a couple becomes so burdened down with responsibilities of life that they are too exhausted to give the MR the proper nourishment it needs. Other times, the lack of intimacy is caused from a lack of attraction. Women are more complex than men, therefore, it's usually something in the woman that is the root of the couple's lack of intimacy. I won't say it's 100% in every case, but in most cases, it points toward the woman. Men pass it off as the W having a low sex drive..........and that is certainly possible, especially during changes in their hormones. However, when this turns into months.....even years of barely any sex at all, it is usually something hindering the W's feelings toward her H.
Yes, I really think my XW and I ended up in our mess because we quit nurturing the intimacy of the M. Both of us used the "roommates" analogy when discussing our issues, even well before BD. Ironically we had a very active sex life even after BD, but sex and intimacy are not the same thing. We had plenty of one and none of the other. That is not the fault of one spouse or the other, it's ALWAYS because BOTH spouses are at fault. BD is really just a matter of which spouse gets tired of it first.
Hello all; getting through the DR Book. The Goal setting in ch2 was great.
I have a feeling, if I know her - the next step is going to be her reaching out asking why I have not called or texted. Do I continue to explain I am thinking things through? I cannot see that response working time and time again.
Eventually she will want to meet up and talk about our future; if that is the case. The first couple times; I will work the strategies (180; cheat sheet info, etc.). If she wants to discuss the M; is it then time where I express what I 'newly' want...the items from the book and how to actually put them in place (actions, not feelings)?
I have a feeling, if I know her - the next step is going to be her reaching out asking why I have not called or texted. Do I continue to explain I am thinking things through? I cannot see that response working time and time again.
No, I would not pretend that you are still thinking about it. I would not get into a R talk, b/c it will make matters worse. I think your best bet is to tell her you do not see divorce as the remedy for the M's problems......but, that you will respect her wishes if she pursues it. Don't sound clingy or weak. Keep it short, factual, and unemotionally. Don't make promises or try to talk her out of it.
Quote:
Eventually she will want to meet up and talk about our future; if that is the case. The first couple times; I will work the strategies (180; cheat sheet info, etc.). If she wants to discuss the M; is it then time where I express what I 'newly' want...the items from the book and how to actually put them in place (actions, not feelings)?
You mean meeting up after you tell her you'll respect her wishes to divorce? I doubt she will want to discuss the M, if she preparing for a divorce. She may want to discuss dividing assets, IDK. But don't get your hope up that she'll want to have a R talk. Unless she should happen to open that door very widely, she's not going to care about your feelings or what you want.
She has to go through a process, and at the moment.......she might as well be on a different planet from you. Maybe a day will come that you can tell her you want a new M, but I doubt she'll be interested right now. Although you want to approach it like a fresh, new M........in her frame of mind, she can't have those feelings and insight of a fresh beginnings with you. Some day, maybe.......but not while she is marching forward to get a divorce.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
So am I just to act right now like becoming a better version of me; without even thinking about her? That is so challenging because I constantly think about her.
Do I need to quit that; and just solely focus on me?
I don't want to sound as if I am promoting divorce.