My Journey with a WAS (Part 3)

[Maika]

okay. let's say that she's trying to reconnect. how am I supposed to do that?

She wants to have 'family' activities and thinks we'll be doing things together - which is not what I believe a separation is. Also, it then looks like she's eating all the cake when she wants but doesn't give back anything.

So, I want to reconnect for sure. If she wants the same thing, should I just say something about it? Like ask her what she wants out of the separation - is it space or time to reconnect slowly?

I feel like I am swimming in the dark here.

I feel like I am being baited because her last sentence sounds like an ultimatum and that if I don't initiate, then that's it - she said "I'm here, but I WON'T REACH OUT" sorry for the caps, but just highlighting what I think is baiting language.

[Rose888]

Have the two of you discussed what she wants out of the separation? Does she have a goal? Are there boundaries?

I think that's a reasonable conversation to have, but I think the two of you probably need a third party to facilitate it.

You said in your first post that communication was an issue, and your reactions to her text seem to indicate that keeping a level head and not reading into things might be an issue in this conversation.

As for cake eating, I think you have to be careful about using that term with a walk-away spouse.

[Maika]

Thanks for your comments Rose. The more and more I reflect on her behaviour it looks like efforts at reconnecting rather than wanting space and time. After BD it definitely seemed like she wanted space and time.

As for communications, I am being more direct as I realized that was one of problems. However, she is still not being direct, at least in the past month. On reflection, it is the same from her where I'm left with reading her mind as she isn't telling me.

I think we definitely need help with this and a lot more with a MC. But in the meantime I'm going to gently up efforts at reconnecting with her without having some big conversation.

Maybe she's not being direct because she is unsure how I will react. Maybe afraid of rejection. She felt abandoned in the MR and doesn't want to put her heart out. I dunno. I'm willing to make the effort at the reconnection without it being so overt.

She has enjoyed spending time with me and not turned hanging out down. I feel like I just got some clarity.

I haven't flipped out like today in the past month. But I recognize my emotions are still raw. If she's trying to reconnect I don't want to lose that.

Also thanks for the cake eating comment with WAS. Got some more insight on that when I look at it from a reconnecting point of view.

[AnotherStander]

I feel like I am in a lose-lose situation right now.

If I don't reach out, she will think (and that's from her own words) that I am actively keeping her at arm's length and not interested.

If I reach out, then it will be pursuing, which doesn't help me either.

So, I don't know what to do.

Well, the whole idea of pulling back is to make her see that you're not going to allow cake-eating. Her actions are very consistent with her wanting to be FRIENDS, not lovers/ spouses. It's classic cake-eating- she can do the family stuff with you and still have her own personal swinging single lifestyle. I think you're getting tripped up on thinking that the tiny crumbs she's throwing on the ground to you are somehow indicative of a desire on her part to recon, but I don't think that's the case. She's just trying to keep you in reserve as plan B.

I just want to tell her: "You asked for a separation. That is what I am respecting. What the hell do you want right now? How is having more contact with me and trying to spend family time part of what a separation is about?"

I would high five you if you told her that. Seriously!

[Maika]

Thanks AS!

I don't see any signs of her trying to do some serious recon. I am not getting tripped over that. The whole last week, she slept in my bed, which she hasn't done since S. Now, I was cool with it because I didn't have any expectations that this was going to lead to something.

We definitely weren't sleeping on other sides of the bed - there was enough physical closeness to suggest that she wasn't just having 'friendly' feelings. I didn't push it too much because I wasn't sure if she actually wanted sex. In hindsight, I should've made some stronger moves to find out. Oh well!

I think where I am at is what Rose talked about - the overall purpose of the S. Is it that she wants time and space or she wants to slowly reconnect and see how it goes - without actually saying it directly. That not saying on her part is messing with my mind because I don't know what she actually wants.

All her actions in the past month have suggested she wants more contact with me. But, I told her I won't be doing 'family' activities.

I am trying really hard to see it from where she stands - maybe she wants to gently test the waters for reconnection, but she doesn't want to say it because that would mean putting her heart out in the open and possibly getting rejected by me. I have told her I don't want the S and maybe she's waiting to see if I make any moves to show her that through actions rather than words.

I think based on her actions, her wall is up again. She was more warm and friendly the week before when we had more contact. So, I might've taken a few steps back from where we were a week ago.

I am tweaking my plan a little bit now and see if it works and what happens - gently test the waters to see if she actually wants to spend time with me; continue GAL and all the detachment and DTR stuff; do 180 with my feelings and communications, but maybe with some more positive stuff rather than what I had texted her.

I have improved my communications in general, with being more direct and expressing my feelings and showing some vulnerability. She hasn't at all and so I am left to mind reading, which is exactly what I am trying to avoid. But, if she doesn't say what the hell she wants, I am getting tripped up.

I did send her a text going against most of the advice here. I clarified that I wasn't going to do 'family' activities, but if she wants to spend time with me, she can let me know. Next week she starts her intense uni program and all her classmates are in the same place for an intensive one week session - I doubt I will hear from her during this week.

But, I might send her a text here and there to wish her well and hope her studies are going well. I dunno.

I just feel like giving up and just going to her and telling her that you tell me what the hell you want because I am done trying to figure out what is going on in her head. She asked for a S, and I am trying to honour that.

This stress is just too much. Just want to cut the cord and be a good dad and improve myself and leave it at that. How do you try and work with someone who doesn't tell you what they want - even a 'i don't know yet' would be something - but no, i got crickets since BD.

I feel like I am putting so much in, even indirectly through DBing, and it's wearing me down.

[Maika]

She just texted me saying that she's confused and doesn't know where I am at. She wants to talk this evening. Lets see what happens. I have the whole day to think of what I need to say to her and also work out any anger or frustration so that I am not a hot mess when we talk.

[sandi2]

This stress is just too much. Just want to cut the cord and be a good dad and improve myself and leave it at that. How do you try and work with someone who doesn't tell you what they want - even a 'i don't know yet' would be something - but no, i got crickets since BD.

Anyone will feel stress if they are trying to work with a person who refuses to cooperate, or even do their share of work. So, my question is......why are you trying to work with a W who does not want to work with you? The more you show her how hard you are working, the more pressure it puts on her, and she pulls back.

She just texted me saying that she's confused and doesn't know where I am at. She wants to talk this evening. Lets see what happens. I have the whole day to think of what I need to say to her and also work out any anger or frustration so that I am not a hot mess when we talk.

Since she has called this meeting to "talk", you need to listen to her. You are already thinking about what you plan to say.......And you really need to just hear her and validate her feelings. I have observed most H's say too much, b/c they want words to persuade the W.

My suggestion is to answer any questions she may ask. Otherwise, look her in her eyes when she speaks, and nod your head or something, to let her know you are really hearing her. That doesn't mean you are agreeing.......you are just hearing her.

Oh......and don't argue or try to prove her wrong.

[Maika]

Thanks Sandi.

The part of me that is trying to understand what's going on right now is the reason I think that I am getting tripped up. If W isn't saying whatever she's thinking, then I am left to wonder. I guess part of the detachment piece is to let it go and if I want to do something, then I should and leave it at that. I thought I would get some answers if I just observed and evaluated, but I am getting all kinds of mixed signals that don't make sense - unless W explains it, which she hasn't been willing to do so far.

Yeah, I basically chucked out everything that I wanted to say and will listen and validate as you suggested. I will answer any questions that she has.

As usual, will come back and post what happened.

[Maika]

Okay! So I am having a bad day today and this is going to be a bit of journaling about it. I was going to do some stuff, but I decided to come and vent here and post rather than do something dumb as it seems like what I do or do not do just backfires.

W is starting her intensive uni week later this evening and thinking about the next week is driving me bananas. Also, she didn't come over last night to have a 'talk' - dunno if it was because she was busy getting ready for this uni week or she just didn't want to have a conversation.

Thinking about this week for her, I am feeling like $hit. I feel like she just disposed of me like garbage and filled her life with all these new people, who she's known for a few months. She's going to be partying and drinking every night and dunno if anything else. I feel completely erased from that part of her life now. All her friends partners are going to be there and she's going to be living up the single life - at least in my mind.

I am having a very hard time right now being this chill upbeat positive person, especially if she's around. I think I have cycled back into the anger phase and it's just not letting me think clearly and with a level head.

I just want to tell her so much stuff and I was going to write a letter to her and give it to her today, but I decided against it for now. I started writing it but then decided to come here and write the letter and get it out of my system. So, here is the jumbled letter that I want to give her - I won't, but I need to put the words down.

W,

I am writing this note because I can't wait another week to have a talk with you. This is driving me bananas. You asked for a separation which I understood as you needing time and space away from me. You asked to sleep in separate bedrooms, pushed the sale of the house, got a new place and set it up, in a matter of weeks - all actions which point to me that you need your space and time away from me. I have repeatedly told you that I am going to honour and respect that, and I am not keeping you at arm's length.

In the past few months, you have shared a bed with me on a few occasions, which I chalked up to as small blips in the separation process. But last week, you slept in my bed for the entire week. I have no idea what is going on with that and I pulled back because that is not separation type behaviour. You never explained or told me why. You can appreciate this is confusing because for months you didn't want to share a bed with me and now you're in my bed five nights in a row. It doesn't add up.

I am trying to be more direct in my communications and not mind read - something that I am guilty of in our marriage and probably contributed to a lot in our communications breakdown.

I have profusely apologized for my actions during our MR that hurt you and made you feel devalued as a partner. I know that words can't fix that, but you know that I am really sorry.

I have also told you many times that I didn't want this separation and that I am here to listen to you. As you put this in motion, it is unfair of you to come to me and tell me that I have to initiate conversations with you about the MR. I will wait for you to decide if you want to discuss it with me or not - I am not going to sit down and keep asking you to talk to me.

Also, I have told you that I am willing to go to MC, as long as you go to IC first for a few months. I don't see the value in MC if you have no interest in working on our relationship and marriage. You don't have to decide now, but you can let me know if you ever want to do this work, then I am more than willing to join you.

I can sense that you want explanations about what happened in the MR - so do I as two people have contributed to the breakdown of the MR. But, I don't see any value in getting answers if you are not willing to work on the relationship and marriage. I can give you the explanations - conflict avoidance, depression, sexual mismatch, communication issues. You know my life well enough to get some background into why these issues arose. But you also have the exact same issues and I have some idea what contributed to those issues for you. But, there is no point in discussing it if you don't want to work on the relationship.

You mentioned you were angry. I understand. I am also pretty Fing angry - whatever happened with Dude X and Dude Y, do you think I just sat there and took it as it didn't mean anything to me? You haven't even told me the whole story, but I am not a fool and I won't be treated as one. How would you feel if I had gone out right after you asked for the separation and went out with some women? You have not been honest with me about what happened and I am not an idiot to figure out what might have happened. So yeah, I am Fing angry about this. But, I don't care for the full details and explanation if you're not willing to work on the marriage. The details become irrelevant to me and I can just move on and work on healing for myself.

When I said I was moving on - I meant that I am working on becoming happy for myself and find peace with all my issues. I am doing things that nurture my sense of spirit and self and it's bringing me great happiness. You are welcome to be part of that journey - it is not that you're not in my life and that is why I am happier.

I am being critical about what I have done wrong in the MR and working on those issues so I can be a better human being. My IC has been instrumental in that process and that is why I am getting to a place where I will be able to really listen to you and hear you. I don't think you are there yet to listen to me because you are blaming all of this on me and haven't taken any accountability for your actions. The number for the MC is this, we are on the waiting list as you know. Call her and let her know that she can contact you directly when our turn is up. If you have done IC by then and still want to do MC to work on the marriage, let me know and I will be there. Otherwise, I am not interested.

Also, I am not doing any 'family' activities that include me and you and the kids. I have told you that I don't see us as a family and the only reason we would do family activities is if we are working on the marriage.

I won't wait around forever. This is not an ultimatum, but just a fact about my own healing process. I am not going to martyr myself for our marriage and wait around for you forever. I have felt disrespected and disposable, and I have enough self-respect to know that I deserve a lot better.

Also, WTF about everything that has happened in the last few months? WTF???

// Letter and Rant Over //

Now I will enjoy a beer and some unhealthy smokes. Thanks everyone for reading. I feel partially better.

[TBSakaJ9]

Well.....I am glad you posted it here . It has been an emotional weekend for me as well, not sure why. I went back and read some old threads from the vets to get me re-focused. I included below what I read from one of the vets who was highly respected and loved way before our time.

I am glad that you say your in the anger phase. Because it seemed that way in reading your email. Angry about her, and toward her.

Can she tell, in your interactions or non verbal communications with her?

Use your anger as your shield not your sword.

Use your anger to fuel your: "I don't care what you do." But not to fuel your coldness toward her in your limited contact. Your coldness shouldn't radiate outward.