What to Do?

[25yearsmlc]

Chris

Stay dark. IF you were to think out the course of you calling or texting her,
then what? You think she'll say "Oh thanks for contacting me. NOW I'd like to rekindle our marriage"...?

No, she's either doing a touch and go to make sure you're still there for her IN CASE she needs option B, OR she is genuinely conflicted and needs reassurance.

BOTH of these^^ require you to stay dark. Because here's the deal. IF she is going to feel the need for you AND is willing to do some work, she will need internal clarity.

That requires that she feels she may lose you. That's the only "wake up" call she may have. I happen to think she is conflicted and maybe even wants you to fight for her.

Especially if she's seen complacency from you in the past.

That is why you have to be so upbeat like a guy who knows he's a good catch and ACTS like it. Of course you cannot be curt or rude to her or cold b/c that's more of what she says she left.

But pursuing her now puts you in a position of less strength than she has, and that is not appealing. I agree with Sandi about the need for a woman to feel protected by her h.

I know we are not living 1000years ago but there is a biological reality for many of us. We want to know if we were in a cave and our man goes out hunting, that he will return with some meat (which is why it's SO hard for couples when the h loses his job or makes a lot less than his wife. They both have to be very evolved).

AND OR we need to know if there's a sabre tooth tiger trying to get inside the cave, our mates will have the guts/strength to fight it off. And we will back them up and protect the baby!

I agree with the course of conduct other posters like Sandi and AS are suggesting.
NO CONTACT (other than the text about her dad on the day).

However, I do want to make a comment about sex lives turning into nothing and just being roommates...

I take issue with the comments about sex and women, "usually being the problem". In the couples who discussed this with me directly,

it's not always women who lose interest OR if it is, it does not mean they must be low drive females.

Some time in the m, the h's have limited time or they are tired from work OR they just are not attentive lovers, BUT they want sex even though they believe they don't have the time to be a good in bed.

So then they do not take care of their wife's needs. (OF course on occasion that's fine for most women as we either want the intimacy regardless of whether we "get our cookies too", but if that becomes the norm, it's easy to see why a wife would lose interest and in time, have a "lower sex drive". I think sometimes there's a cause and effect.

Imagine the reverse scenario in which a wife wants to ML but her h does not climax. Knowing that it will likely just please her, wouldn't some men lose interest?...Frankly it's hard to imagine, but that is what some h's expect of their wives.

Many women I know who say they are "not that interested", --- admit when pressed --- that the sex is not as good as it once was. I'm not saying there should always be fireworks b/c hey, this is life.

But if a woman learns to do without the pleasure she used to get, in time her desire to be spectator, will go down. Seems easier to lose interest than to feel frustrated or resentful.

OTOH, yes I know couples who have not had sex in years and I privately wonder when the bomb will be dropped by the more frustrated of the two.

Back to your "no contact" issue...do you have other friends? Can you reach out to them?

Inserting new or more friends into your world is going to help immensely. In fact you probably won't get through this without incorporating MORE people asap.


And btw, How can she buy a home on her own?

She's not clearly driven to get the D. I think she's probing and I think your distance is sparking curiosity in her, which YOU WANT!

Be mysterious. Don't over share about your time apart.


Hang in there, I see hope.

[chris19]

Thank you for the comments and thoughts; reading this helped me understand slightly more.

And btw, How can she buy a home on her own?

We scouted homes and found one we really loved; and in the market of the city we live in we had to pounce. We agreed she would purchase the house, and if we worked out I would move in. I signed a POA for the mortgage; so I am not responsible financially for the home. This also was part of the separation; she moved out, and I am still in our apartment.

I have many of friends I am still in contact with. This defiantly helps my situation.

[chris19]

That requires that she feels she may lose you. That's the only "wake up" call she may have. I happen to think she is conflicted and maybe even wants you to fight for her.

Especially if she's seen complacency from you in the past.

If she is conflicted and may "want me to fight for her"; how is this possible with me being dark?

[chris19]

Also, just to confirm and ask for an opinion. If should would contact me with something to the effect of... "Why haven't you called", or ..."are you just not going to talk to me", or something to the nature of her getting upset because I have not contact her - what would be the best course of action (or things to say)?

The goal of that conversation would be to address her understanding and frustration; but also to explain D is not the road I would like to take.


Secondly - Does anybody have a great Co-dependent/Co-dependency book relevant to my situation? Taking a backseat in my relationship, being passive, etc.

[LH19]

Also, just to confirm and ask for an opinion. If should would contact me with something to the effect of... "Why haven't you called", or ..."are you just not going to talk to me", or something to the nature of her getting upset because I have not contact her - what would be the best course of action (or things to say)?

I would just say that you moved out and I wanted to give you time and space to think about our relationship as I am also currently doing.

[Maika]

That requires that she feels she may lose you. That's the only "wake up" call she may have. I happen to think she is conflicted and maybe even wants you to fight for her.

Especially if she's seen complacency from you in the past.

If she is conflicted and may "want me to fight for her"; how is this possible with me being dark?

Read the 'Going Dark' thread again that Cadet had posted with the rest of the links. There is a lot of gray in there and it is meant to be used as a technique with the rest of the DB stuff.

I know it can be confusing - I was totally seeing it as black and white, but over time I have realized that there is a lot of room to play around. You'll figure it out as you test it.

Also, if complacency was part of her concerns in MR, going dark completely might not help. I know in my sitch it didn't so I had to tweak it because what I was doing was just confirming to her that her grievances from the MR were valid.

I know it's not easy and makes no logical sense, but I can tell you that going dark definitely brought out some strong reactions from my W. I took those reactions and recalibrated my strategy.

[chris19]

Also, if complacency was part of her concerns in MR, going dark completely might not help. I know in my sitch it didn't so I had to tweak it because what I was doing was just confirming to her that her grievances from the MR were valid.

I also read from the Going Dark treads...

If a person were to use "going dark" in the spirit of solely "no contact", they would be wasting their time, and setting themselves up for great disappointment.

I am trying to separate the two. No contact - strictly refers to not contacting the S. Going Dark refers to more of the detachment process mixed with the 180 correct?

How the heck can I tell if by me being dark right now is 'more of the same'? It is hard to recall in the past who was the one to do the making up; because we had so many little fights...because I was so passive.

[Maika]

I totally understand where you're coming from. I seriously get it trying to figure out going dark and not sending the message that it is the same as before. Let me try and give you my perspective on it. Please remember that I am very early in my sitch and so take what I say with a grain of salt. Also, you probably won't find an answer to how your S will interpret this until you do it.

No contact - yes, don't initiate things including texts, emails, calls etc. Only respond to texts that are 'business' - like kids stuff, finances, house stuff, etc etc. Stuff that needs to be dealt with to keep things moving. If messages are outside of that, just don't respond as a starting point and see what happens. In my sitch, the longest it took for W to send me a message was 3 days - and that is really fast, but don't expect that type of response. Follow Sandi's rules in terms of no dates, no pressure, no nothing from you. If you want to respond to a text, don't do it right away - take your time. But, don't avoid or ignore her - that is not what NC or going dark is about. It is about becoming suddenly unavailable to her whenever she wants you. It's about limiting access.

Go read Benni's sitch from the top and see what he posted on my thread just today - good guiding principles.

Going dark - I don't want to rehash the thread because it has everything you need to know. Going dark for me was a mix of NC and limiting information to her about what I was doing. She found out about a couple of my GAL activities through mutual friends and had an emotional breakdown - basically saying that I was doing what I had done in the MR - keeping her at bay. As this was a huge misunderstanding, I decided to explain to her that that was not the case and I was just honouring her wishes for the separation and that she needs time and space away from me.

So, then I recalibrated my strategy. She gets to know bits and pieces of what I am doing - only if she asks though as I don't volunteer information. I just restarted NC because of some DBing malfunctions on my part last week and basically starting at square one.

From my limited experience, the only way I knew that going dark was 'more of the same' for her is because she reacted badly to it and told me to my face. That might not always happen.

But, from what I have learned, instead of trying to figure out the exact approach, just take the guidance from Sandi's rules and apply it. You will find out in time if it worked or didn't. If it didn't, then tweak it. But, you won't know until you try it out and everyone's sitch is different. Timelines will be different. So, that is why patience is key because you don't know where your S head is at right now.

So, this is my approach as of now with what I have learned from my W's reactions:

1. Don't initiate communications.
2. Respond to W based on the nature of the message.
3. Share with her bits of my life as the circumstances dictate.
4. Continue working on myself, GAL, and detachment.
5. Don't start MR talks.

If this goes to plan as last time, she will initiate and invite me to spend time with her. I will accept some invitations but turn down some. For every few invitations she sends me, I reciprocate and invite her to something I am going to do anyways. If she joins, that's great, if not I am doing it any way. I have already done this previously so she knows that I am not sitting around waiting for her.

You can overcome your passiveness by improving yourself - doesn't have to necessarily be with her. Improve your communications, GAL, get more self-confident. Whenever you interact with her, show her that side of yourself.

I hope this made sense. Sometimes I get terms here confused, but if you can get down with the general philosophy and start seeing the nuances in it based on your sitch, it will become much clearer. Hope this helped, but my sitch isn't yours so take it for the sake of perspective rather than trying to replicate what I am doing.

[chris19]

Maika, thank you for that well spelled out example. Very insightful.

I have a situation that I wanted to bring here first before I contacted W. B/C she moved out, I need to re-sign at my leasing office for our old apartment; problem is I need my W signature on the lease itself or on this one page document which allows her out of the lease. I need to get the ball rolling on locking myself in the new lease; but I am not sure how to contact my W. It will be the first time we have texted in 7 days.

Any ideas?




In other news; I have been reading and learning the DR (7Steps) and had a few questions. Chapters 1&2 I understand; beginners mind; and know what you want. When it comes to Chapter 3 (asking for what you want) and Chapter 4 (Determine more of the same); are these items I can accomplish at the moment due to the fact we are physically separated and hardly communicating?

[Maika]

This is a business type conversation with W, so I would say it's fine to message her about it. I would say something along these lines,

"Hey! I need your signature for the apartment lease. I will come by at X time today/tomorrow at your office/home"

Keep it straight to the point and don't be passive. Don't ask her when and where. Say when you want it done and if she can't do it, she will let you know. This is a small way to show your assertiveness.