Don't want to be a wayward wife ...

[AnotherStander]

Blu, I don't blame you, I really don't. Your R with your H has been like walking across a desert for 2 weeks in your bare feet and you ran out of water a week ago. OM is like a bucket of water that has suddenly appeared, normally you'd never think of drinking from a bucket, but in your utterly parched and deprived state that bucket looks glorious. But if you had been walking through a park instead of the desert you probably wouldn't give that crusty old bucket a second glance, LOL! I'm not saying OM is crusty, but he probably is. He may even have scabies. Gross.

[BluWave]

I was posting at the same time based on the posts from my last thread, while you guys are posting new ones here; I can't keep up with you people! lol.

25, as always, thank you. I feel like you understand me! My posts are not a cry for help, I am not having any type of A--ea, fantasy, etc--and I would not. Like my title says, I do not want to be a wayward wife! You know what I have learned though? It really can happen to anyone. I didn't quite get that before--and there is so much ugliness and shame around As--but now I actually think it is human nature to have attraction to more than one person. The difference between us all is what we do with those attractions, if and how we act on them, and of course we all have a different moral compass. What one considers very wrong, another may think it not as bad. My thinking was always that I could only be attracted to one person, them to me, and that neither could even think outside of that. Perhaps that unrealistic thinking led to my marital demise ...

I only assumed that posters would have a strong response to my post. I am okay with that--I am a big girl, I can take it. I also know that it brings up feelings for others that have been burned. I have responses to reading threads based on my own history and psychology. Here is the thing--you guys don't know me that well and I have also not shared many details. Are you guys defining flirtation the same way that I am???

This is what I will tell you about myself. I have always been a serial monogamous. I have some abandonment issues and depression from childhood. The nature of my Hs and OWs A and the way it played out could not have affected a person worse. The crushed me and I am still in recovery. It was also the hardest time in my life to have to go through that. So needless to say, my biggest struggle now is with resentment and forgiveness.

As I have taken a step back from Retrouvaille and actively piecing, I have taken a closer look at myself. Coincidentally, or not, this OM noticed. I have not had attention from OM in a long time, but more so, had it been there, I don't think I saw it for what it was. I have been so focused on H and the M and it became the only thing that mattered. That is not healthy or normal! I even went on a couple dates when H and I were separated and I felt nothing, totally numb. So this attention from OM is the first time in a very long time, I have opened my eyes and seen that there actually are other people in the world. We are not only meant to be with one, or statistically we would never find them ....

I am fortunate to have several close GFs to process all this with. I have known my BFF since childhood--and at times I think she knows me better than I know myself--so she is that person that I can tell anything to. I broke it all down, and I mean all the details. You know what? She was more relieved that I was shifting my view on men and Rs than she was concerned that I would have any type of A. I think it was processing with her that helped me to relieve my guilt. Her response was more, yes, you are a woman and women like to feel desired and sexy and this is not a big deal! It is okay to feel attraction and have mild flirtation, and it's normal. The line just needs to be defined and then followed.

In the mean time, I have really taken to the words of Esther Perel--she is like my personal guru! Everything she explains about infidelity--how it happens, why it's so hard to forgive--and the importance of novelty and passion, well it all makes perfect sense to me. She also explains that we don't ask for what we want. You know what I want? I want this type of attention and flirtation from my H! He has never really been that way and also he has his own wall of protection up. At some point I will need to just ask him for what I want.

So I have been thinking a lot, a lot, a lot .... about myself and what I want and need, about As and what they mean, and also about the kind of man my H is and how grateful to have him ...


I want to address all of you, I do, but I have so much to do today. I promise I will come back later ....

[sandi2]

So, the OM (is that what I call him?) continues to pay me a lot of attention.

Is this a coworker or someone you see daily\weekly? Seeing him on some type of regular basis can become unhealthy, b\c you can begin to create a fantasy about you and this OM. Some people may not believe fantasies are serious, but that's the beginning of an EA. I am talking about one that grows and begins taking up head space and taking away from the R with your H. Your H cannot compete with your fantasy, much like you may not be able to compete with playboy bunnies (or maybe you can, but you get my point).

If you see him daily, I suggest you put as much space between you as possible. The more you are around him, the more familiar and comfortable you become with each other.

It's confusing because even as I write that, I recognize that I sound as if it is happening to me. I don't want to be a victim, I want to be in control.

But you won't be in control if you continue to think you are simply enjoying basking in the ego food. No, you aren't planning to have an affair. I did not plan to gain weight, either, but I continued going back to the table. Same thing is happening here, you are hungry and going back for seconds.

I hope you caught Coconut's message about how easier it gets when the guilt stops. The danger you face at the moment is your resentment, hurt, (maybe disrespect) toward your H.....can easily turn into self justification. Your subconscious will say, "Why shouldn't I enjoy another man's attention, when I have not had it from my own H?". Then you will begin justifying other actions and first thing you know....your moral standards are being compromised a little. That is the danger.

I won't say you are a victim, b\c victims don't have much choice. You do have choices in this area. You aren't a victim, but you are vulnerable. So was I. I didn't get up one morning and decide to become involved with another man. It started when I received attention after years of no intimacy or "attention" from my H. Although my H did not have an A, I was hurt, had resentment, and felt disrespect for him. So, I was vulnerable, and any flirtations or male attention I would have completely had control over in the past.....was not so true at that current time in my life.

But, do I like the attention? Yes. Do I flirt back? Yes. Does H have any idea? No. ... The biggest question: is this wrong?

We like the attention and flirting if it comes from a man we find attractive. If he repulsed you.....you would handle it much differently. You want to know if it is wrong. Are you trying to hide it? Does this interaction take place in front of people that know you, or do you feel the need to keep it private?

When some guy we hardly know gets a little flirty, it may make our day and we think, "Hey, I've still got it!" We smile and walk away. At least we should. It's when we continue to engage, that can cause problems. Besides, most of us don't want to see our H's showing the same type of attention to another woman.

Maybe. Or maybe I am in denial? Maybe this is very wrong and this is how it begins .... I can't tell actually.

Yes, it's how affairs begin. The fact that you seem confused, IMHO, is your inner warning signal to walk away and stop engaging or encouraging it. I hope you won't take those words offensively, I don't think you are a woman who goes around trying to get men's attention.

I like how it makes me feel. I feel excited, attractive, and alive. I have these boundaries that I have created in my mind that I won't cross, but at times they feel blurry. This is a totally new and unexpected place to be.

I once read that the first time a person takes cocaine they are instantly hooked. IDK if that is true and I've never tried it. Unfortunately, I am familiar with the feelings you are describing about the interactions with this OM. And, Blue, those boundary lines will become more and more blurred the longer you allow this to continue. I would not classify you as a wayward wife. I think you are responding to something you haven't had in some time. As I explained above, you are not experiencing something that unusual. But you are dangerously close to the fire, and I want to encourage you to not poke it. You and those you love will get burned. Don't deceive yourself into believing it is just flirting and won't hurt anyone. You are already questioning yourself.

You guys can 2*4 all you want, but I don't know that it will change much here. I think this reads worse than it is. Strange as it may sound, I think this could be a good thing for my M in the long run.

I say this with tender concern, Blue, it kind of sounds as if you are smoothing it over. You were brave enough to bring this on board, so I hope you won't convince yourself it means nothing, and therefore, continue to engage. Many LBS have rebound experiences with other people, and you can stop this before it goes any further.

((Hugs))

[doodler]

I think it's an unconscious desire to ameliorate your anger for something that was lost and will never be regained.

[Lovelyp]

I agree with Sandi. While I sympathise with you for all you have gone through I feel you are playing with fire and you may not be able to stop things. Right now you are vulnerable and this OM providing what you really need. If you continue being close to him you will fall for him and may loose your marriage.This OM might look appealing because he knows he has competition and probably wants something with you so he will be very nice and appealing in order to get that. You might be suprised he has many other flaws too. For now he wont show, he will show only a good side to sweep you off your feet.

[Sotto]

I agree with Sandi's wise advice Blu - she has been there and she knows. I too was there to an extent & I've posted about it here a while ago. EArlier in our M and XH was working away a lot. Friendly with a guy at work and started to feel some attraction towards him. I still loved XH and was pretty surprised to be feeling attracted to another guy - but in hindsight, I had needs that weren't being met and I never said etc. Etc.

The other guy was married and attentive/complimentary. He was in my headspace and I fantasised a little about him. Nothing was ever said and I never saw him outside of work, but our exchanges did stray into mild flirtation and we did have a little contact by email in the evenings and weekends - I hate to say that now...

I recall once XH was away and we had a late meeting. It was a lovely summer evening and I thought he might ask me out for a drink and I thought I might say yes. He didn't and nothing more ever happened. I recall lying in bed with XH and having a fundamental realisation - that I couldn't happily lay my head on the pillow next to him knowing that I would be lying and deceiving him. I realised that I would lose what I loved - our marriage and relationship - if I crossed this line.

I never regretted not taking things any further and crossing that line. Truly I never regretted that - perhaps in some way my inadvertent distance during the period there was another guy on my mind paved the way for XH's subsequent affair? IDK. I'm certainly not proud of what I let happen and I recognise how A's can develop, which has helped my process XH's affair better.

I don't think your decision at this point should be - shall I get involved with this guy or not - I think it should be shall I remain in our marriage or not. Because even if you want to leave your marriage, leaving it by having an affair would be a destructive choice - and you know that already....((((hugs))))

I echo what lovelyp posts too...

Take care Blu and I hope there is something in here that is of help to you xx

[Ginger1]

I am a silent follower, but I feel compelled to say something.

I have never cheated. I actually never have been tempted even though my ex was such a douche. I mean a real douche. However.....

My exH was my friend's boyfriend. I was in essence the "OW" We were 18, it is a long story.... but me and that friend are actually very good friends to this day.

I carried/carry the worst guilt inside of me for what I did. To this day, at 37 years old. even with the forgiveness. I feel like everything that has happened to me since then and continues to happen is because of what I did. And I feel I deserve it. I explore this often in IC. My IC is really working with me to stop this thought.

We explored why it happened. The circumstances surrounding it. I was 18, my dad left my mom, my mom resented me, she went back to using drugs, my dad moved out and he was my everything and kept me alive all these years. I was out on my own due to my mother's drug habit, I was struggling in college.... I was abandoned and completely alone. I was scared. He paid me attention, he gave me a false sense of security and I fell for it. I was so desperate and scared, I knew I was hurting my friend, but being with him was giving me almost the only reason for living at that time.

For the longest time, I felt like they were a bunch of excuses. My IC assures me it was me trying to keep myself alive. I was trying to survive. And she was right, and I hate that it was at my friend's expense.

I say this because #1- I can actually see where the temptation in if you feel so depressed and hopeless and there is one thing that makes you feel good. I do understand how affairs can happen in certain situations. I am not saying they are right, but I can understand where they can happen. #2 I would suggest you don't cross the line because I can tell you are a loving sensitive person, and you will feel the guilt. Even though "you ex did it too" the guilt is real, and for me it is awful. I don't want you to have to add that to your plate.

After divorce, a higher power has been testing me. With married men. Two of them were friends of friends whom I had known. One was so far out of my league, he was a running joke amongst a group of married friends on which friend would they sleep with. it was him for the girls and his wife for the guys. I was newly divorced. Imagine this guy reaches out to me and says he has always been attracted to me and had a crush on me? It was tempting. I am not going to lie. Mind you, I am as single as they come, but I just couldn't do it. I didn't want to live with that or inflict the same pain on anyone else that was inflicted on me. I did kiss some random married stranger once when I was drunk. I remembered he was married when we were kissing and I put a halt to it immediately. I felt awful.

While it probably feels like a cool drink of water in a very dry and hot desert, the guilt that comes later is just awful. But yes, I can see how it can happen.

I do see one huge positive coming from this for you. I know you struggle with what your ex did everyday of your life and you stay. Understading how it could possibly happen may help you move past that a bit.

take care of yourself.

[OwnIt]

Blu,

You are one of the most amazing people on this board for sharing your thoughts and insights. Your warmth, caring and intelligence come through in everything you write.

I think you are trying to even the score with your H in some twisted way. I get it. Totally.

But the warmth, caring and intelligence are going to prevent you from enjoying this and like Ginger you will be regretting it for a long time to come.

Dig deeper Blu. Find true forgiveness for this man and for yourself.

[25yearsmlc]

Blu

From your earlier post, it is not really forgiveness alone that troubled you, so much as wanting to feel the way you once did? The time machine piece.

Esther Perel's work will help some, I hope. I worry she's referring to a small minority of couples, post affair. (At least in our culture).

OTOH, Div Busters are a small minority too.

Anyhow, just wanted to ask

[BluWave]

Thank you, everyone! I am not avoiding any of you or the questions. Today has been a very busy day at work and I have not had the time to sit down and respond thoroughly. You guys have given me so much to think about. And I am thinking. A lot. ... Sandi, I was hoping you would weigh in--I really appreciate it. I feel as if you get it. And you are right.

I am going to read all of your posts again a couple times and keep processing. This is sitch confusing, but eye opening at the same time. You guys are the best! I will be back ...

Thank you!
Blu