Would she be able to wipe away my memory of S10 sitting motionless on the sofa, tears slowly dropping down his cheeks, as she tells him we're getting a D?
It's ironic you mention that because I was thinking on my way in this morning how my "old" XW would never in a million years have done anything to hurt our kids, even if it meant living in an absolutely miserable M (which ours wasn't). But this new person she is now didn't seem to care who she hurt in the process. That's the long and the short of it, right? That old person that loved you and that you loved would be worth fighting for, but this new person? Not so much.
AS, you hit the nail on the head. Though it would still be hard to go back to my "old" W at this point too.
Random stuff: S14 had an orchestra concert last night (he plays violin). I sat with S10 and STBXW, but I didn't talk to her except to say hi. She asked if I'd be open to getting dinner with her and the kids afterwards, and I agreed.
Dinner went well. STBXW was fairly pleasant (she was in her public persona), and it's odd how much it felt like old times. We joked with the kids, although she didn't have much to say to me except for schedule discussions. There was one time where she told me to give her a taste of my dinner, and I asked her to ask politely. She got a little annoyed by this and asked politely, but with a snarky tone. I realize I could have let it go, but that was the old me, always accommodating her.
Me-47,XW-43 S13,S16 M:18 BD:4-23-17 W filed:7-17-17 (5 months of in-house separation hell) W moved out:1-6-18 D granted:2-15-18 Decree signed:3-29-18
Yikes. Here's the thing -- your boys didn't create this situation, they didn't ask for it, and they can't do anything to change it or fix it. They are 100% victims in what is going on with you and STBX.
With that being said, their needs have *GOT* to come first, before NGS issues, before standing up to W.
I *strongly* suggest you meet with a child and family therapist and talk about the dynamics that are going on right now and how to best take care of your boys' needs. It will be an excellent investment in time and money to do so.
Having that fight in front of the boys is horrifying, that is absolutely going to scar them. You can't influence or control what STBX does, but you are fully in control of your role in things, and you should not fight like that in front of your boys -- ever.
One of the things that I learned is that for the boys, this process is terribly destabilizing. They view the two of you as their rock, and when you can't get along and treat each other poorly in front of them, they can't trust you not to treat them poorly if they make you angry, and that will make them anxious. You're showing that your love is conditional, and you don't want them to worry about that.
Secondly, routine is important, it's something that will bring them comfort. If you can preserve some family traditions for some period of time it will make their transition much easier. If the birthday dinner is a tradition, you should suck it up and preserve it for his benefit.
In my case, we kept having family dinners once per week for six months after we were divorced, then tapered it down to twice per month, then once per month, and now only for special occasions.
It's true that you want to show the boys that you will stand up for yourself, and not tolerate bad behavior from W, but you also are responsible for protecting them, and sometimes those agendas are in conflict. I would avoid openly fighting with STBX in front of the boys at all costs. You can disagree, you can argue, but once emotions come up and things get unproductive it's time to shut it down. That's the model of behavior you want to teach, not getting snarky and lowering yourself to the lowest common denominator when you get upset.
So what's best for the boys?
-- Showing that although you two don't want to stay married, you both still respect each other -- Showing that although you two aren't agreeing on things lately, you can still discuss disagreements productively -- Showing that although W may antagonize you, you will not be provoked -- Showing that although you don't want to hang out with the STBX inlaws, you can be a man, show up for your son's birthday and be pleasant and civil with everyone for his benefit.
Demonstrating that you can show up and be pleasant and civil shows a lot more strength than avoiding the situation to somehow punish W for failing to consult with you. Really she's not going to care, its your son who will be punished.
I also don't understand why when W asked you where you were you gave her the "none of your business". What does that accomplish? It comes across as very passive aggressive and would infuriate anyone if it were a consistent behavior. That's not being strong and independent. Being strong and independent would be not caring how she feels about where you are and what you're doing, and if you don't care about her reaction, then it doesn't hurt to tell her where you are. Who cares? She may have a legitimate need to know from a parenting perspective, maybe she needs to go somewhere and needs to know when you'll be back. In any case, it doesn't matter because your whereabouts really weren't a secret. It's good to be mysterious, it's not good to be evasive.
You're antagonizing and provoking her with this "you don't need to know" stuff and I would drop that, to AS' point it's not going to get you where you need to go.
I love that you're working on sticking up for yourself, you just need to tune your approach.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Awesome, thanks Holding. When it became obvious to me that we were headed for divorce and not reconciliation, I met with a child and family therapist to ask about how best to protect the kids through this. It was a 50 minute session and cost about $80 or so. It was *invaluable*. I've never gotten divorced before, I've never had to steward kids through a divorce, so I was winging it, and going with what I thought was right, what other people were telling me, etc., but it was all just guesswork.
A competent professional is going to give you excellent advice. After the first meeting I decided to go in for a joint meeting with exW. The point of that meeting was not to discuss anything about our sitch or anything between us, it was to 100% focus on do's and don'ts of co-parenting, how to act while living in the same house, how to handle disagreements, how to talk to the kids about the impending divorce, what they would be worried about, what they needed to hear, etc. etc. It's just so critical.
Secondly, in my state, you are forced to separately attend a parenting class before you can get divorced. The instructor of that course was very clear that divorce does not mess kids up, bad parenting messes kids up, full stop. She said the most damage is done when parents can't talk to each other, can't be in the same physical space and won't cross each other's thresholds. You must invest in a productive co-parenting relationship, and part of that is being the better man when exW is being difficult.
The difficulty with discussion boards is that so much of this is nuance and that's impossible to discuss effectively in this format. You can say the same words using two different tones of voice and have a totally different interaction with someone.
Being strong is key, standing up for yourself is key, but doing so in a controlled, civil manner is the best thing you can do for your boys.
Please please please consult a family therapist for their benefit. Although it's painful, focus on how you've been acting and how you contribute to these situations, because you simply can't change STBXW. If you like the therapist, invite STBXW to join you, and make it non-threatening for her by saying that you're just going to focus on how best to steward the boys through this process and the session will have nothing to do with anything between the two of you.
Please do that, it will pay dividends for your boys for the rest of their lives.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Acc, my boys are seeing an IC, who is also my IC. I'll discuss this with her. Not sure if STBXW will feel like going, and I certainly won't join that joke of a MC that she is seeing for IC now. Maybe someone new and neutral is in order.
STBXW told me this morning that she's moving out on the first weekend of January. She asked me to not have the boys home during her move. I can see how it would be difficult for them to watch that happening. But I'm also very suspicious of her moving out without me being there watching, to make sure she doesn't take anything she shouldn't. Thoughts?
Me-47,XW-43 S13,S16 M:18 BD:4-23-17 W filed:7-17-17 (5 months of in-house separation hell) W moved out:1-6-18 D granted:2-15-18 Decree signed:3-29-18
But I'm also very suspicious of her moving out without me being there watching, to make sure she doesn't take anything she shouldn't. Thoughts?
Holding,
Make a detailed list of the things each of you will keep and have her sign and date the list (and vice versa). That's what my XW and I did and it worked well.
One word of caution, my XW put our sons' computers and gaming consoles on her list. I called her out on that. Those things belonged to my sons so I told her they're the ones that needed to decide where those items would go. They chose to have their stuff stay with dad; what a surprise.
