I talk a lot about respect and how it ties to a wife's loving feelings for her H. So, I started typing this list of things I've heard other women talk about in their M's, and what I have read on the board. Then I thought maybe I should look online to see if I could gleam anything else. Frankly I was disappointed at the weak articles I saw (although I admit I only looked at, maybe, a half dozen). They just didn't have any meat to it, if you know what I mean. So, I'll just make up my own list. I invite other women to join in and add something I've missed. And of course, the men are welcome, too.
Obviously, I can't list everything, but maybe give some general areas that come to mind. They are not listed by any sort of priority or importance. Please forgive me, if anyone sees that I did not use proper terms, or if I omitted something very important and common. I probably should have taken time to think this out, but my usual style is shooting from the hip anyway. I have not experienced most of the things on this list, but I listen to other women and I read a lot.....if that counts. These are only my opinions. I have not copied from anything else, except for two places, which I noted.
Reasons women lose attraction and respect for their H:
* The H is abusive (physically, verbally, mentally/emotionally) to his W and/or children.
* The H places his family in harms way. For whatever reason, he does not protect his wife and/or children.
* The H is guilty of any type of crime/abuse (reported or unreported), especially against children, women and the helpless. If the H is incarcerated, it places hardship, anguish, embarrassment, and sometimes...shame, on his family.
* The H won't hold down a job. He's not a good provider. He gets the couple in higher debt. He misuses finances. He may have a job she sees as "beneath him", doesn't pay enough, and he won't try to better himself. The H may have sank their life savings or took out a second mortgage for him to start his own business....and then the business fails.
* The H is an alcoholic, drug addict, gambling addict, porn addict, gaming addict, etc.....and, he won't seek help. He won't take responsibility for the suffering that affects all areas of the family's lives, due to his addictions.
* The H is not a good father. He is a terrible role model. He may be abusive. He punishes the children, instead of teaching discipline. He takes his anger out on them. He is too harsh, condescending, always on their backs, never praises them, has unrealistic expectations.....especially from a young son. He does not spend quality time with the kids. Does not do his share of parenting, b/c he sees it as being the W's job to raise the kids. He is not careful of the language or subject matter he uses around his kids. He does not show respect for their mother, nor teaches them to show her respect. He does not teach his children how to be a good person and how to deal with life while living by a code of integrity, ethics, values, etc. He does not show nor teach them about the importance of love, kindness, compassion, joy, peace, etc. In other words, what he passes along to his children is everything negative.....especially about fathers.
* The H has had an EA/PA. He flirts with other women, even in front of his W. The H is guilty of inappropriate behavior with women. He compares his W to other women, making her feel inadequate and insecure. He openly shows how he is checking out another woman, in the presence of his W. He talks excessively about the new woman at work and cannot praise her enough. He wants his W to change her hair color or dress like a particular woman he knows. He talks about marriage as if it is his prison and his W is the warden. He makes unfunny jokes or comments about marriage, wives, playing around on the W, etc. He talks and behaves as if other women is the only topic that is ever on his mind.
* The H suffers from some type of emotional/mental condition and refuses to see a doctor or take the prescribed medication, attend therapy, etc......to control the condition.
* The H lacks male dominance. (The following was taken from another source). He lacks the take-charge ingredient when it comes to the MR and family life. His role models have been the TV sitcom H's who are the laid back, hen-pecked, passive types. He mistakenly believes that the way to a happy marriage is to let his W be in charge of everything, resulting in her ruling the roost. TV shows portray marriages that have a domineering W, with a somewhat dim-witted H who just happily goes along with whatever his W wants. In real life, those ingredients do not produce a happy W. It produces a W who disrespects her passive H who lacks male dominance in their MR and in the family home.
* The H does most of the housework. (The following was taken from another source): "A common mistake that modern men make in marriages is to copy the fictional relationships they see on TV drama shows or sitcoms, follow the advice of politically correct TV talk show hosts and believe the advice from random articles online that are not written by male relationship experts who are actually in a successful, happy relationship with a woman".
* The H is constantly rude and inconsiderate of her (and others). He embarrasses her in front of others. He talks down to her or makes fun at her expense in front of her children, family, friends, and in public. His manners are terrible. He is too loud (talking, laughing, poking at others, drawing attention, etc.) in public or in a group setting. He gets drunk and acts out in front of others. He may cuss or use vulgar language toward her and/or others while in public or a small group.
* The H is a chronic liar. He will tell a lie when the truth would serve him better. The W cannot believe anything that comes out of his mouth.
* The H is untrustworthy, unreliable, and undependable. He may use an excuse, or he may apologize, but he doesn't change.
* The H is lazy. He is a couch potato and thinks weekends should be spent in front of the TV and drinking beer. He won't take care of the lawn, the car, repairs, etc. If his W wants to have friends over, he won't lift his finger to help with the kids, etc. He's just pretty worthless when it comes to getting him to move his a$$.
* The H never admits he was wrong or takes responsibility for his mistakes. He blames others or the situation for his failures. He is arrogant. The H won't listen to her views or concerns. He doesn't respect the opinion of others. He thinks he is right and everyone else is wrong....regardless of what it is. When watching TV, he gets drawn into the program....making condensing or vulgar remarks, even in front of the children. His negativity is always present in his interaction with others. She worries that the children will pick up his bad habits.
* The H has a victim mentality. No matter the situation, he sees himself and portrays himself as a victim.
* The H is a control freak. This goes beyond a healthy interest or concern. He wants to control every aspect of the W (what she does, where she goes, who she talks to, what she wears, when she can visit her parents, etc.).
* The H is a mean jerk. He bullies, belittles, dares, threatens, and pokes at his W and kids regularly.
* The H is emotionally insecure. He is jealous, suspicious, fears, worries, expects the worst case scenario, gets anxious, etc. He doubts himself as a man. He needs constant assurances from his W that everything is fine.
* The H has no pride. He doesn't care about his personal appearance. He has allowed himself to gain too much weight, wears unflattering clothes, and has less than perfect personal grooming habits. He has no pride in keeping the vehicles washed and in working order. He has no pride in how the outside of his house looks, the yard, etc. He develops the habits of a slob, and won't clean up his own messes.
* The H has too much of the negative side of the Nice Guy Syndrome. He is passive, won't stand up to anyone, won't enforce disrespected boundaries, avoids conflict at all cost, over explains himself, etc.
* The H is a Mamma's boy. He has the Nice Guy Syndrome, usually. His mother (or both parents) takes priority over his W. If his parents and his W don't have a good relationship, he tries to be the buffer.....but generally will lean toward his parents. If his parents make snide remarks, complaints, accusations, or undermines his W, he stays tight lipped instead of defending his W and standing up to his parents. If his mother and W are jealous of the time/attention/devotion he gives the other one......he will choose his mother.
* The H lacks compassion, patience, tenderness, and understanding. He resents his W's complaints or her attempts to discuss the need for him to have these traits. Instead of trying, he grows colder, harder and more impatient with her and the children.
* The H is selfish in every area of his life. Self-gratification is priority for him, and if his W and kids don't understand, that's too bad.
The H is a hypochondriac and misses work at the first sniffle. If the W is sick, he tries to be sicker than her. He wants her undivided attention on his needs. He drains her b/c he is always focused on himself and how he feels.
* The H interferes with her employment (example: gets mad at her boss or co-workers and causes a scene at work, instead of staying out of her business and let her handle it). B/c of his interference and causing trouble at her job site, she may lose her employment there. When she tries to "vent" about her work, her H tells her what she needs to do to fix the problem, instead of just listening and validating. Instead of being supportive of her career or profession, he tears her down, complains about it, or even tries to undermine it in some way.
* The H has a job that is considered lower ranked on the success ladder, than his W. He may have worked while she went to school to have a professional career. He was financially supporting her schooling, and paying their bills. After her career takes off, she begins to see him having a lesser important job, with lesser responsibility, and lesser income. She begins to treat him like one of her employees, except with less respect. He has done nothing wrong, but it is a glitch in the W and how she views her H from her new successful pedestal. In our modern world, we are seeing more couples dealing with this issue. Women need to "look up" to their H. If she is not mature enough, or they don't have a very strong/happy MR.....it can negatively influence the light of "success" she sees her H. She sees herself as "outgrowing" him. We often see this scenario play out when the H is a SAHD. In most cases....the W's attraction and respect will begin to fade.
I don't know if all this will fit onto one post/page. I guess we'll find out. I'm sure I've left something out that is important, so I welcome your comments.
Just reading this list, I don't no any man that doesn't fall into any of these categories. My own parents have been happily married for 38 years. And I can see my own father in some of the things listed. From what I can tell our WS have unrealistic expectations. Don't get me wrong, I can see how some of these can be serious issues. But a lot of these WS leave their H for the reasons listed to end up with OM who are far worse. So why do these WS have this love and respect for OM?
I see one or two of these traits in me. Selfishness for one. My wife getting a better job(financially) than me and that resentment. Before I had always been the sole provider. Moving to a new country, not having a green card and feeling useless. Mild depression didnt help and I shut down because I felt her bipolar was way worse than my "blues" and I didnt want to burden her. I could have been more understanding, listened to her more. Knowing her love language(s) and her mine would have been really useful.
I think we could have really worked on our marriage back in nov 16 but her resentment and hatred had built up so much along with her affair that it was all over and I could do nothing to repair it. Thing is , we had a really amazing, loving relationship for so long, we're so compatible in so many ways and I can never see myself loving someone like her in that way again. She did change though..
M-45 W-32 D-10 D-8 Together 11 years Married 6 years Separated 6/2017 ILYBINILWY 11/2016 (also nov 2011) EA 11/16 PA Same time?? NC, detachment started 12/11/17 D aug 2019
Sure, lots of men and women have these issues....but that doesn't mean they don't learn how to deal with it, resolve or dissolve the problems. Both H's & W's do something that the other one finds unattractive or resent.
This is just a list of things that can lead to the W holding resentment in her heart and it turning into disrespect for him. It doesn't mean they get D over it. Some people live together for 65 years that have lots of resentment....however, it is very rare to see these days. Personally, I think we are too quick to get a D b/c of the times in which we live. We have a different mindset than our grandparents had.
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So why do these WS have this love and respect for OM?
I am so glad you asked, Thread. I've been meaning to comment on this very thing!
First, you have to remember that the WW is in a fantasy of her own making. What she feels for the OM is not real, except for maybe feelings of lust. I find it very difficult to believe she feels true love, if you understand the nature of waywardness. He is simply a part of her rebellion. But of course, she wants to see the OM as her shining knight on a white horse. Therefore, she's going to believe the b.s. he throws at her, and usually, she'll find something totally opposite from her H in this OM.
For example: My H had went into a self-employed business (if you could call it that), but he wasn't self-disciplined or driven enough to be his own employer. Anyway, he borrowed a ton of money by putting a another mortgage on our home....and sank us into a lot of debt. Needless to say, I was not pleased, and I did not feel very secure.
When I met the OM, he was not as handsome as my H. In fact, it was not the OM's looks that attracted me. It was what I thought I saw in him. He was single, had a very nice income and job security and a position of authority. He was a take charge kind of man, and that really appealed to me. I didn't have to wait all day to get an answer when I asked him a simple question, like I did with my passive H. We would actually carry on a two-way conversation, where as it was always one-sided with my non-verbal H. And of course, he fed my ego.....a lot!
Did I respect the OM? No, I did not know him well enough to respect him. I liked what he told me. I liked the man I thought (and wanted) him to be. I wanted the fantasy so badly, that if you had asked me back then if I respected the OM, I would have probably said yes....in defense, if nothing else. I was blinded by my own fantasy. And when a WW is in that particular time-slot....it is probably going to take something pretty drastic to shake her to her senses. That is why I think it's more successful when the H dumps his WW immediately upon learning about a third party. A supplicating H is just not going to jar her senses. Even letting her go, may not initially appear to be working.....but it does, if the H doesn't mess it up.
The attraction I first felt for the OM was too shallow to be anything else. I didn't know him, so how could I respect him....really? I didn't know how he treated the employees under him. I didn't know if his word could be trust, if he was reliable, compassionate or kind. I thought he must be pretty smart...and tough to have his job. I didn't know how he interacted with family or friends, or how he treated them. I didn't know his true character. I didn't know his principles and values. I only knew what he wanted me to know. I had not live with him, nor worked with him. I did not know anyone who knew him. Until we know a person's reputation, history/track record, character, integrity, behavior/actions, and know them in a crisis......all we know is what they tell us, and maybe what we think we see at the moment....which can be deceiving at times. I've always said we don't really know a person until we live or work with them. So, unless we've done one or the other.....we don't really know them enough to respect or disrespect them as a person.
Another thing with the whole WW and OM affair is that it is not a relationship that was built on anything other than deceit and lust. How can respect be born from this union? How could trust ever come to into the picture? It usually takes time and some type of experience or knowing the track record of that person, in order to build respect. In a dating and engagement relationship, the couple has time to get better acquainted and learn more about each other. Their mutual attraction and respect will grow.....or they will go their separate ways. After marriage, their relationship will be tested many times. If they have enough maturity and enough respect for each other, they usually can pull through the crisis. If not, they will go their separate ways (at least emotionally).
In an affair, the attraction is connected to lust and built upon deceit. In a marriage, the attraction is connected to respect and built upon truth.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
My one regret was not kicking my W to the curb back in December 2016 when I found out about the A. I was a fool thinking that 17 years together, 15 years of MR and this family would suddenly shake my W out of this fantasy. OM was married with three children, been in several affairs and happened to be her sisters cousin. Dude was even great looking. And she knew nothing about this guy. But yet after sleeping with him, she was willing to leave her MR to be the OW. While plotting to break up his own MR. On paper and to everyone aware of the sitch, I was the obvious better choice. But my W could never see that. Guess that fantasy/fog is stronger than love itself.
That is a great list, thank you for putting it together. As I read through them, I saw some that didn't apply to me at all, a lot that partially applied to me, and none that completely applied to me.
I think the key is to understand the traits that can be unattractive to woman and be conscious of the things that you may be doing in excess. I think everyone can find a few things on that list that they are guilty of, and it's important to minimize those bad traits as much as possible.
I think one thing missing from this list is a H (or W for that matter) that will not communicate. It will be obvious that they are upset about something, but when asked what is wrong, they will just blow it off and say nothing, although they will walk around obviously grumpy all day, or even go to bed mad about it. It will fester and either they will just blow up one day or just internalize it all, neither of those options is good for a healthy R.
I know in my situation, there were things that I was doing (or wasn't doing) that should have been obvious to me that my wife was having issues with, but she never communicated her unhappiness with anything, and I didn't take the time to reflect on myself (nor did I really have the understanding of what types of things to reflect on).
On the other hand, I had issues with her putting our son before me, I had expressed this to her and she blew it off. While she knew I didn't like it, I failed to communicate with her how it really made me feel, and instead I just withdrew from her, actually said to myself several times that I would just have to wait until my son went to college to get my Wife back. Not a good way to have a healthy relationship.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
Thanks, Coconut. My H would not communicate his feelings to me, although I encouraged him to try. If I had some issue with him, I would try to explain it, and it was always a one-sided (my side) conversation....which left me feeling bad and with unmet emotional needs. I finally stopped trying to get him to talk about his feelings when he told me it was as painful for him to express, as holding my feelings inside were painful to me.
We have never had meaningful conversations like I saw in my parents and between other adults. He still doesn't carry on a discussion with me, and it still hurts, but I just try to adapt the best that I can and not take it personally. He doesn't really carry on conversations with other people that much. It's just not so noticeable, b/c he responds to them. With me, he'd just looked straight ahead.....toward the TV screen. I'm not stretching it a bit.
Ironically, the main thing I have always craved in my MR was intimate conversation, or pillow talk. I needed that special moment with my H when first going to bed, where a couple lay in each other's arms and talk. It may lead to making love, or they may just fall asleep.
My H was always addicted to TV and he would sit up at night watching it until he'd finally pass out, while I lay in our bed alone. I've never personally known another couple quite like us, but I suppose they exist. It ruined our intimacy, for me. It left me feeling lonely, neglected, and resentful. If he wanted sex, I would always know.....b/c he would follow me to bed, and as soon as sex was over, he would get right back up to watch more TV. I pleaded with him to just compromise, b/c I felt it would improve our MR. His answer was always that he just wasn't ready to go to bed. But why could he not go to bed until I fell asleep and then he could he get up and watch TV if he still wasn't ready to sleep. I mean, he would not even try to compromise about it. I tried sitting up later, but he still would not give up his TV time to be with me.
I got away from the initial subject, but I do appreciate your comments. In my case, it was definitely a source of resentment.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, this is great stuff, as always. I know you put a lot of your personal background into some of your earlier posts, but it is not always easy to sift out (and I assume for you not always easy to post about.) However, I think it is really, really helpful... Not everyone of course, but certainly a lot of people will be able to find a little of their own situation in yours, and I think that helps the insights and advice resonate a little more, as well as connect as more than just faceless message board posters.
Thanks again!
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
I appreciate your words, Jim. And, I want to say something I meant to add earlier. This is not a list of complaints that women may have about their H's. To me, complaints are when he forgets to set out the heavy trash, doesn't diaper the baby while she's cooking a meal, etc. These are serious ways he causes the breakdown in his MR.... In which he can lose his W's attraction, cause deep resentment in her heart, and eventually lose her respect. These are ways that the H has a direct negative influence on the relationship with his W.
If examined, some of these negative contributions can be found in SSM's. The H may "think" his W has sexual LD, and he may even be correct. But many times the reason that really caused her LD can be found in him. Even in MR's where the couple may have regular sex, but the W is "doing it" for his sake.....or b/c he is easier to live with......can find a woman who is enduring unresolved issues that started and ends with her H. These are things that affect the relationship long term. Attraction definitely affects her feminine response to him.
Many women endure an unhappiness that can be linked to her H's behavior. These are all about him, and they are choices he makes.......but they affect her and her children.
And gentlemen, let me assure you that I realize there is a list for women, too. However, I feel more comfortable trying to inform men about the things that affect the women in long term relationships.
For those who believe in the Old Testament, you will see how God made the woman's desire unto her H, and He gave the man the awesome responsibility for being the head. For which much is given, much is required! He designed woman's loving feelings for her H to be tied to her respect for him.
The New Testament teaches the Christian W to submit herself to her H. (Many misintrepret the meaning of the King James version). She is being instructed to respect her H. However, look at the H's instruction. He is told to love his W like Christ loves His Church. Honestly, I think the H's responsibility is much greater. Maybe that is why God made him the initiator and made her the responder. Oddly enough, the H's number one need is to be admired, and the W's number one need is to be cherished. The scripture tells us how. Thousands upon thousands of religious and secular books have been written to tell us how. Apparently, there are a lot of us that don't read, or we don't apply what we read.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I invite other women to join in and add something I've missed. And of course, the men are welcome, too. 
I had not live with him, nor worked with him. I did not know anyone who knew him. Until we know a person's reputation, history/track record, character, integrity, behavior/actions, and 