Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up

[betheoa]

Sandy please for fast respond

I think you need to stay calm and play it cool. If you have the kids, find somewhere to go or something fun to do with them.

About the kids is already done. Being cool - from your point of view, how it si look like?

You can start by not allowing her to speak to you disrespectfully. She doesn't get to talk down to you, yell, curse, belittle, blame, etc. Don't allow her to show disrespect in front of your children. She doesn't get to boss you. You should not cater to her and treat her as if she royalty. If she speaks with sarcasm, address it at that moment. Don't try to pay her back at a later time, b/c that is passive-aggressive behavior. It never resolves the issues.

- last 6 months (sarcasm), i live with smile or/and just ignore. I stopped pay her back 5 years ago, when decide to be real man.

She likes to eat cake, but you don't have to serve it. Know what I mean? You are not helpless. Learn to say, "no" to her face. Don't be afraid of her. Stop apologizing for the past.

. 6 months ago i have started to follow your rules. The result, is that she is more nice, and not show so much disrespect except OM2, Sh**t talk me to her friends and so on.
Now i have this situation, and i hope you are going to answer me fast before, i done something in wrong direction.
Since the beginning of the year, i show that i am not agree to be text with OM2 in front of me, first i switch of my attention from her, then i switch from her even more, next i leave the house (for walk), and today i leave again. She cal me to ask why i leave is there a real reason (when leaving i told to kids i have work to do), i answer her that she know why i leave (text OM2). She tel me with soft voice (why i did not talk to her, about it - i said that she know very well, but i will come back to talk. When i back, i said to her that i am tired to live lake this, i will not accept to live like past 2 years (OM1 Om2). She respond she is not doing nothing wrong, that i have seen this thing in wrong perspective (relation whit OM1 OM2). I answer that is not something i will put on. She accuse to control her. I ask will you stop this (she ask for clarification, so i answer it is not only OM2 - current issue, but all. I told her that i buy her "just friends" with OM1, and then come OM2, when it is finish with OM2 will be 3,4..She got little angry (before that was little scared ). She said that there is nothing (OM2), and she always was and will be with me (support me), and she will support my decisions (to leave if i do not want live like this). She said that will be tough for the kids. I said, that i am tired from all of this - her treatment of me (last 5 years, no affection, not proper attention, disrespect OM1 and OM2). I have ask, are you going to stop this, point OM2 - she accused me that i force her to do something (by the kids), I said OK, and walk out, she start telling me selfish (controlling)... i turn to her and said - if you are proper woman, you will stop this right here. (in my language the sentence was not rude ). She Respond to accept her like not proper woman - then i leave.

She call me to speak by the phone. The conversation was, that what i am going to do, when/where will live (all the same thing). I said to her that i want to close the phon that i need to think how to proceed with my life, she insist to talk more. We continuous to speak the same thing as before, and the i said there is nothing more we can said. Close the phone


Later on FB she write that she put up, being with me 5 years (after she know about my infidelity, and other blame me things), the write in threatening way that she thank me that i gave her freedom and say that i gave it to her 5 years ago. I did not answer

She call me to ask where i am (i answer) and if i going back home today - i answer will see later.

My question is what to do, should i stay out of home for day or two or week, should i go home and start to not give her any affection or attention, should i separate from her?

place Sandy answer ASAP - in the past i give up for the kids, and the situation did not change (maybe for week she pursuit OM2, less), but that its.

[betheoa]

Dear NicoleR, thank you, i have tough that only my W will punish with years, but stay together (leave under same roof, but not more than parents)

I know how your husband feels now. If you wont we can discuss about it.

So yes at firs (6 months after her D-day)- she suffer, i was trying to do every thing (from the books. She was saying, if other woman was with me will like who i am.
after this 6 months - she start asking me to leave, to divorcee and so on, that about for 2 years. I was convincing her to stay together for the kids. I was so nice, just hoover her. Then i went in apathy, she occasionally telling me that she is lonely, but never accept my attention, affection or what ever i try to give her.
Then she start to work, after 7 years SAHM, i hardly support her to find something that she will like to do. So she start to be among people,take attention from other people (men). Then OM1, nothing more then talks, coffees text...,but she was in limerance. I confront her several timce, but in the end we are like good neighbors (from beginning of this year, i hardly show in very civil way - that i am not OK to be around him - to her). With him i am just civil. Then OM1 withdrew, because of her GF, so i have seen, how my WW looks like when ending limerance.

Then come OM2, it is like taken from the book, friend, talks, texts..., This time i confront harder, and she went to him more than OM1. This is from around a year. Many times in our discussion, i was redy to leave, but in the end she convince me to stay because of the kids (or i make excuse to my self to stay).
To day i left, because she openly FB OM2. She call to kom back and talk, she told me that i am controlling, i want to cut contact with OM2, and behave as my wife. She told me to do what i want, and she will support me (do not make problems) im very soft voice, when i do not backed off - from what i want she start to blame game, bring my pasts mistakes, telling me that she is what i have made from her, that she is not at my level (sarcastic), and go to find woman at my level.

So now, i am staying at my work, and think what to do, if i go to my home how to behave.
I think that she will start to be even more WW just to show me....i am tired. If i divorce her, i will loos my kids time , but rationally i will not loose nothing more. We do not kiss, hugs, sex, love talks, or even conversions. She is not interested about me, she is bored from my day life, when there is something like dram in my work she is interested just to but me down, of course if some woman is involved in any way around me she is very interested. I listen to her all the time, and validate. I have stop controlling (verbal, gilt trip, lecturing and all this before more than 2 years).
Of course i love her, and i want to build ne R with her, and avoid all my mistakes, but...i relay do not feel, that this will be healthy for me if this continuous.

If we separate, she cannot handle this life standard, her payment will cover only food, but nothing more.

Please write more, how to switch the diamine. Separation/divorce - this will shake hardly the kids, and all people around (family and other people think about us as great family)
Should y stay out the night, or go to home and how to behave?
thanks

[betheoa]

Sandy

Be sure to read the threads about wayward wives.

Your posts open very hard my eyes, and i was kicked out of my LBS fog...
Thanks you are here

[NicoleR]

Betheoa, I'd love to hear your perspective more about how it feels to be in your position, although in your case it sounds like you gave your wife more than enough chances. My husband did the same for me, but now he's gone. I'd do anything for both of us to want to fix our problems and try again. He did bad things too as you can see on my thread and I have to leave him alone and detach but I still love him and don't want a divorce.

Friend I believe if you don't want a divorce you need to find a way to communicate with your wife in a way that draws her toward you and not away. And when positive communication can be established then there must be a way to say that you can't accept her abusive treatment and this is a deal breaker for you. Then of course she needs to break off her affair. The affair probably won't last forever so if I were you I'd focus more on the direct interactions between you and your wife. Also there might be a way to separate just temporarily in a way that makes your wife "wake up" before going straight to divorce, but I'm not sure what the DB book says about that.

You need to think for yourself how to apply the rules and guidelines from DB in your situation. I'll try to think more too and will write in the next day or two with additional thoughts.

[betheoa]

So, i am feeling tired,
Yesterday - after i left the house went to work, stay there do som things, WW call me to ask where i am (said to work) she asks will i come to sleep home or not, answer will decide later..

After my lieveng, she did not FB OM2.

I did not answer, to her FB messages (most gild trip, and to find better woman, if i think she is not enough good for me - AKA when i said that she have, behavior that i will not tolerate (her limerance to OM1 and OM2).
When i went home, she was sleep (make her to look like she is sleeping). i go to MBR, she asks if i lock the dor, i answer Yes. After my lieveng

In the morning we weak up the same time, i when to make me coffee, the put on the mashie her cup, and make coffee. (i thought, if i should do, but i did it). we did not talk, just few word about the wether, then i live 30 minutes earlier. There was so much snow, normally in winter i start her car to be warm when she and kids leave. I clean her car from snow too. I did not wait appropriation from her, i an doing for the kids as well.

To day we are not contact (tat is norm, from more than 1.5 year) i just stop call her for nor reason, she call me from time to time, especially she is worried about me (how i am doing, where i am ....insecurity of her part).

In the afternoon she FB OM2, whit intention about meeting for lunch/dinner, he ask her to go to eat when she is free, 3 days ago, and she not openly agree then, but now she just hook him about it.

So now for today, it was as a plan to go together WW, Me S10 and D8 to do martial art, normally we go separate WW and kids and me in different days (because of work schedule) and then doit together on Saturday. last week we doit together all week, because i do my best to leave work earlier. So for today it supposed to doit again (be all of Us), but i depside to not go with them. I am a little sad that she contact OM2 so early, just next day...but

So i am thinking should i go with them to do sport when it is possible, or tray to make missing time (if she miss me a all).

From this point that i said to her, that i will not tolerate her EM (her friend sheep - as she clarify) or her way of life (being friendly in special way - as she clarify), what to do when my boundaries are crossed ????

Should i do something about what she is doing - if i suppose to do not know - aka keep boundaries?
And what if she continuous FB, or meat OM2 freely and let me know???

Before 6 months after big fight, as she hid from me meting the OM2, before next meet she call me and said if i come home on time because she will go on diner (make to know with OM2), i answer only I understand, then close the phone (that was advice how to approche the situation from another forum (i ask about exact situation, because i predict it will happened).
So the result from this, was nothing more than cake eating, i behave as this not bordering me for some more months, was friendly not needy and so on. Only think was that she was thinking that i believe that her situation with OM2 was out of control, as well as she occasionally discus wit her GF, why i did not behave sad/angry and so on - regarding OM2 as i was doing before - she suspect me - that i contact OM2 and ask him about leave in peace my WW (because he was little distant or something like that, she side that she will try to manipulate Me and OM2 to convince we were agreed something, she said If we were agreed something - she will clarify our R (aka how/what i can and can not do about her), and will cut any contacts with OM2 (i do not know why).

So base from my old experience, if i be very cool and nice and civil, she will be very happy to be with me, she will not worry about me and tings other OM2, but that will not bring me nowhere. Why, because after my behavior like this during OM1, after OM1, told her he should cut him off because of his GF, my wife ended with OM2 3 months later (the furs one show her some attention/affection).

So here i am. I will wait till right time to go home, after the WW and the kids. If she ask why i did not come to sport with them i will answer, had to do something at work. Will be civil.
Should i behave distant?
How to behave, when i told her that will not tolerate EA/OM2 or such a friendship and she have said to do what i have decide (she do not want me to leave) but will supporter , and she will not tolerate to control her life - keep OM2.

Thanks, to every one be with me .

[sandi2]

Listen, your wife is playing with you. She lies and says OM is just a friend. You are her husband! If you don't like her having a friendship with other men, then she should respect you. Does she want friendships with other men.....or does she want a marriage with you?

You are giving her both, the marriage and friends with other men. She calls and talks and disrespects you on FB...... and she tells you to come home and talk more! That is rediculous. No offense, but she is yanking you around and it won't stop as long as you are confused as a man. You are confused by how to act like a man or like a husband. Both should be to act like a man!

You are not taking charge by asking her what she wants and what is she going to do. Tell her you will no longer stay in a marriage that has other men. She can be friends with people you are friends with also. No private friendships with men. No texting other men. You don't text other women. That is how marriage is suppose to be. One man and one woman. Stop asking her how it will be.

You try to win her love and devotion by doing special things for her. But it is not working. As long as she can talk and talk to you.......and you go running back home to her......you do not have respect.

It is time to stand up like a man and tell her, "No more".

You are not controlling. She says those words to contol you! Can you see? She manipulates you. She treats you very, very badly because she has no respect for you as a man. She uses your past mistakes to control you. Do you see? She knows you feel sorry for the past, but she is mean and uses it to punish and as her excuse to cheat on you. She will not change unless she believes she is losing her husband.

Stop talking and saying the same things. It doesn't work. If you leave and stay away from her, she may get her eyes opened. Don't threaten to do it. Just leave her. I am not telling you to divorce her. Just leave her and don't talk to her and let her pull you back. If she really wants to be a good and devoted wife, she knows what she should do. Don't listen to her words. Watch her actions. If her actions are not those of a loving wife, then don't stay in the marriage.

[betheoa]

Sandy, thank you very much...i felt supported.
I have doubt about am i overreact about her behavior, am i not understand correctly and so on and so on...and finally am i deserve My Wife to be my wife and not allow some other men flirt with her and she flirt with them...i really was accept all of her behavior, because i have made so big ans so many mistakes in the past. Thank you that support me to have right to be forgiven, and to have right to ask my WW to stop behaving, as she is.

So about yesterday:
My wife talk about our last fight with her GF:
She said to her that, the things was not going i right direction with me. And told her how i was going out when she had answered to OM2, then she told her, how offended is she from my reaction (about i will not tolerate her behavior), the FG said that my behavior is out of sense. The GF said that if Im so much jealous or i need to made a reason to leave the home (aka to do something with OM), my W told that she was thinking the same, and comment way it is needed to be so much rood to her if i want to go out, just go out.
Then she show to her GF, the FB messages she send to me (how i can judge her after what i have done to her, that is not easy to live with me 5 years after my infidelity, how dear i can judg her, and so on, i was not answer the FB messages, and My W told her that later i call her to say she is free (that was not true), the she said that she is done. Her GF told her to leave me to see, what i will do without her, then my wife answer he that other GF of her told her "i can believe, how you survive this life, she was on work all day and take care of the kids and everything - and take this ....my bed behavior" (i think there is not such a GF, she just play pity game..)
Later with other colleagues of her and this GF, she commented that the evening they will go to sport, and she do not wont to allow me to join them, because she is angry at me (said in joking way), the she said she is 99.9% sure i will went, because in the morning i was taken my sport clothes, but i did not.
I went home after my W, we did not talk at all, like silent treatment. Just civil, i was so much different, did not ask nothing. When i come home she start FB and try to hide a little bit the screen (she was FB to our sport trainer). but her intention was to look like something different (FB OM2).

So in the morning was the same, i did not do coffee to her.
Then before i went to wokr, she start to talk to me about the sport scheduler for next month, and she was FB our trainer at the evening, i said OK, and said buy, she was looking like different (eye contact and imprecation ) - (she was look like this when she is interested in something about me - or when she play game - be good W).

I start her car, in the morning(i am doing this for my kids).
and that was.
Thank you being here.
How should behave from now on....should i find place to stay for some days - that will affect drastically our budget

Thanks

[sandi2]

Do you see how she brings other people into your private business (the marriage problems)? Her GF may have strong influence on your W. Using FB to attack you is wrong. Making remarks about you to colleagues is inappropriate. You do not have to accept her treatment.

I don't know if you have read about the nice guy syndrome. I hope you will look on line at the free information given.

Also, please read about Alpha males and Beta males. I am going to copy and paste a post I wrote to another board member yesterday. I think you have lived in a bad relationship for a long time, and you believe you don't deserve any more than the few crumbs of niceness your W throws at you. She uses the past to keep you in a position of a whipped puppy. It is time for you to stop being the whipped puppy. If she cannot forgive you, then that is her problem. You will no longer be punished. Five years is enough!

If you cannot physically separate from your W, then we can design a plan of action to use while staying in the home. Is that what you would like to do? It will require a lot of changed behavior from you, and probably not the behavior you had in mind.

In my opinion, when the WW has brought another man into the M, the H should not act as if he is waiting for her to make up her mind about the OM. He should not ask his WW about her feelings for himself or OM. Apparently, your W enjoys making you jealous. She texts OM or reads his messages in front of you so she can deliberately make you jealous. It is her way to pay back the jealousy she felt over your A. But it has to stop, and we will talk about what you need to do.

You said you had read some of my posts. I don't know if you have read my threads that explain WW's. I have several and I will give you the links.


Series Links

Links to this series of threads

First thread(this thread)
For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554&page=1

Second thread
For the Newcomer LBH who has a wayward wife Part 2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2548490#Post2548490

Third thread
For the LBH who has a WW Part 3
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551039#Post2551039

4th thread
Guide for LBH who has a Wayward Wife
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551811#Post2551811

5th thread
Help for LBH who has a WW (new thread)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2593214#Post2593214

6th thread
Sandi's reflections
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653323#Post2653323

[betheoa]

Sandy I will be very sort now....write by phone

1.yes I have read a lot of you post. When reading a am amazed and afraid. Become I have seen my situation and what should I have to do.
2. I have read no more mister......nice. and in the. Past spend a lot of time read about redpill alfa beta male. yes I know that I have been nice guy and Beta male
3. I will need help about plan to start change in home. Separation will Collapsed my finance. After 6 months will be better if hope.

I already red your posts....will reread.


Thank you . I need to be accountable to some one in my journey. There is not anyone who know enough to lead my. My old soul ...nice guy and gilt, put me to sleep away when my WWE become nicer.
So thanks again Sandy ....I am enthusiast ed about ....ME

[betheoa]

So Sandy, i will continuous and add more:

Using FB to attack you is wrong.

It was privet messages. in the past last 2 years, from time to time, she make fun of me in FB (she asks before wrote it- if i am OK)- and i say OK - at this time i did not see any wrong, i can handle it, now i know this is sort of disrespect, so i cut of at the beginning of the year ago - when i add something on my FB wall, and she red it, and said she want to write (something like - easy easy) - so i respond to her "better not to do - in firm way"

Making remarks about you to colleagues is inappropriate.

Off course it is not write - i am not suppose to know about that. She is often lie (or twist the truth) to bring her in light of confident woman, wise and independent. How i can not accept this behavior if i am not suppose to know?

I don't know if you have read about the nice guy syndrome. I hope you will look on line at the free information given.

. if you think that i am nice gut now, i could not imagine what you will say, about me in the past

If you cannot physically separate from your W, then we can design a plan of action to use while staying in the home. Is that what you would like to do? It will require a lot of changed behavior from you, and probably not the behavior you had in mind.

I will be happy, if some one support me, to be honest i am scared, but what i can do more by my self.....

You said you had read some of my posts. I don't know if you have read my threads that explain WW's. I have several and I will give you the links.

I am reading now

So about yesterday...my wife went to sport with the kids. I went to sport an hour later, i sow that they are there (this day is not common to them to do sport. When i go there, i went strait to the change room (did not look around to see where are they. I go home a little later then normal 30 min later (i have read/write to the forum).

When i go home, say just Hi (she respond HI), then start to do something to eat. W went to bed. hour later i went to bed too. Did not speak a all.

In the morning today, i make coffee only for me, later she start talk to me about sport related, i respond very short an civil. later i told her about my Grand Father about being in hospital (just to inform her) she look like polite. Later i found out that today OM2 will go to haircut at her. I took this for me. When i leaving, she ask polite to call her about me grant father..said OK.

later she call me, i did not answer, call her 30 min later, she ask what is UP. I said i am dеаling with chaos (she asks what happen), i ask nothing (she asks you don want to tell me ?) i said everything is under control, just a lot of tasks to do *she said you will do it) respond off course i will, then i told her about my grand Father what i know (she propose to visit him later) i said will see later. (she ask to call her if here is more information about him) respond OK . Than said buy..

So there is my question:
1. Should I do sport with her and the kids or do it alone
2. Should i go hole late...
3. What to do if she ask if i will leave the house/when and/or what i think to do from now on
4. What to do if she FB OM2 in front of me
5. What to do if she ask/inform me that she are going to dinner/lunch with OM2
6. What to do if i know she is going to lunch/dinner
7. What to say if she start talking about future thing events (aka we will together in future)
8. What if she start talking about how she fills (tired/nervous ans so on ) up to now i try to validate or listen, not going to fix nothing. From the past i know if i ask what i can do for you to be better, her respond was i want peace (aka not bother her about her behavior) she is very glad when she doing this (punch me).

So for today i do not have action plan, but will keep to be civil and calm.
If Sandy respond of my question i will be more prepared for the evening.
What i am sure she start to try temperature check, softened and so on. That is normal when i keep pulled back after tough discussion or/and fight.With the time last 2 years i have become more confident in my wright to ask behavior/ things from her.

Off course i want to go back to my comfort zone : aka be polite to each other, she hide when contact OM2 (aka not show obvious disrespect, give to me some grumps of affection and attention to me, and allow me to do for her many things she need.
i hope to not go there this time. I do not want to be plan B. Now i AM, if OM2 bull back (some how, not FB, or in a mood), she become more open to me, off course depressed but more present (mental), when OM2 is more attend to her she is more happy, but mental not here. WW and OM2 play pursues/distant game, look from outside it is ridiculous. last 2 years when observing my WW and OM1 and OM2 interaction, i have lost a lot of respect to my W, but the love is still there (i am not talking about this what i feel when i am jealous/rejected/needy and so on), no i am talking about this solid feeling to some one, when you wish all best to this person, and forgive what they done write there (not forget but forgive). Yes i am a person like this (is it normal to be like this?) Am i so codependent to her?.

will write at the evening if i need to vent.
Thank you being there, glad to be here.