1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude. 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32. Do not believe anything they say and 50% of what they do. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
Edit- There is a series of threads that Sandi2 has written They are linked together for easy reading. There is also a link in the homework assignment but just in case you missed it. I will provide it below.
I am new here and I blew about 80% of each of these asks. LOL Cant help it. Wife told me 2 weeks ago and TONIGHT there is no future with us but I feel it is as we are literally still living under the same roof. It is hard.
M:11 W: 38 Kids: 0 Separated:2009 Back:2010 Separated:2017 (same house) I don't want a divorce
I am new here and I blew about 80% of each of these asks. LOL Cant help it. Wife told me 2 weeks ago and TONIGHT there is no future with us but I feel it is as we are literally still living under the same roof. It is hard.
How to start a thread
I will use what Job wrote
First Click on Newcomers then:
Originally Posted By: job
Go to the top of the screen and there is a new topic box on the left hand side. Click on it and then you will open the window to create a new subject as well as a posting.
Wow that is quite the list. While I can see the wisdom in giving someone that much space, how do you do it? How do you sacrifice yourself to that extent? I am aching for some affection- I have done nothing wrong, no affairs, no lying, no temper. I don’t know why my partner is angry. I would love to be disciplined enough to never show my yearning. I am just so lonely. When is it ok to need connection? When is it ok to ask for stability? Commitment? Fairness?
I am sorry. I was trying to understand how you cope with your feelings while you behave in a way that would be so hard for me. I am sorry if my post was not appropriate.
Its not that your post is inappropriate. Its just that it would be better to have your own thread to discuss things about you.
How you deal with your feelings is by starting with detachment. A tough thing for all of us to learn. It is the place to start.
What I was trying to explain to you is HER anger is not about YOU or anything YOU did. It is HERS - she must own her anger, just like you own YOUR anger and your feelings. Make sense?
Basically you did not break her and you can not FIX her.
Needed to revisit these today! Always good to reflect and refocus. What is the goal? What is your objective? What are you doing today right now at this moment to help that along? I will not shoot myself in the foot today! I will keep my cool no matter what my spouse throws at me today! I will give positive attention to my kids today! I will take care of myself today. I will not worry about what my W is doing today.
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
Just wondering out loud here if Sandi's WW threads might not be worth a "sticky" up here at the top of the forum, maybe under the heading of something like "Do you have a Wayward Wife?" or "Walk-away Wife or Wayward Wife?" You know, something to put that issue front and center.
I suggest that because it has been my sense after being on here for a while that a substantial percentage (even a majority, maybe) of the folks on this forum, and definitely a majority of the LBHs on here are dealing with what Sandi2 refers to as a "Wayward" wife. This has even been more pronounced it seems as of late where it seems like almost every new thread deals with that dynamic.
I wonder how many people come on here, miss that distinction, and make a mis-step or don't get started down the right path as quickly as they could. I know that my own first foray onto these boards was overwhelming to me in the amount of information available. IT was partially because of this and because of not finding a "lifeline" right away that i vanished for a couple of months.
Sandi2's "Rules" are pure gold, but i am wondering if, just below those, having the "WW" threads available might provide new posters faced with that dynamic with some much-needed context.
Just a thought on how to make an already awesome place maybe just a tad better (purely imho, of course);
Thanks again for all y'all do!
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Just wondering out loud here if Sandi's WW threads might not be worth a "sticky" up here at the top of the forum, maybe under the heading of something like "Do you have a Wayward Wife?" or "Walk-away Wife or Wayward Wife?" You know, something to put that issue front and center.
I suggest that because it has been my sense after being on here for a while that a substantial percentage (even a majority, maybe) of the folks on this forum, and definitely a majority of the LBHs on here are dealing with what Sandi2 refers to as a "Wayward" wife. This has even been more pronounced it seems as of late where it seems like almost every new thread deals with that dynamic.
I wonder how many people come on here, miss that distinction, and make a mis-step or don't get started down the right path as quickly as they could. I know that my own first foray onto these boards was overwhelming to me in the amount of information available. IT was partially because of this and because of not finding a "lifeline" right away that i vanished for a couple of months.
Sandi2's "Rules" are pure gold, but i am wondering if, just below those, having the "WW" threads available might provide new posters faced with that dynamic with some much-needed context.
Just a thought on how to make an already awesome place maybe just a tad better (purely imho, of course);
Thanks again for all y'all do!
Thanks for the comment but I do not think that we need more sticky threads.
The link is listed in post #1 at the top and it is provided in every welcome post I give, I can only lead people to the water I can not make them drink it.
I will repeat it here because when I just went to EDIT that POST it blanked out on me and I do not feel like dealing with it right now.
I wasn't doing these 100% and have paid for it in personal pain. This is a must. a core tenant. For any newbie reading this, learn from my error and ABIDE BY THESE 100%
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
Sandi, I know my Wife is a bit of a unique case and not really a WW, but how well does a WW usually respond if the Rules are Not followed (or not known about at all) by the LBH, and they make MANY mistakes with the rules in the first few months after DB, and then begin adhering to them a few months in, as opposed to a LBH that begins implementing the rules right at BD?
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
it even occurs to me that having a modified version of the 37 rules specific to the LBH that is already separated or even in divorce process may be a helpful tool
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
it even occurs to me that having a modified version of the 37 rules specific to the LBH that is already separated or even in divorce process may be a helpful tool
Bump for interest?? id still love to see something like this.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
I already have my own thread, but I have a question specific to sandi’s rules, so I’m hoping this is the right place to ask?
My H has said repeatedly that he wanted a a wife who would be his friend (the clear implication being that I was not a friend to him). I’m trying to figure out the best approach to this; I think I should do a 180 on this and show that I was/am his friend. BUT, after a lot of cake eating on his part I believe, and have made it clear to him, that he doesn’t deserve my friendship outside of our marriage. I’m trying to figure out which way to go on this, as I’m worried that maybe my withholding of my friendship (by way of scarce conversation and the like) has been a lot of “more of the same” in his sites. I welcome any and all thoughts!
Yes, exactly. The last time he mentioned wanting us to be friends, after a year of major cake eating on his part (and allowing said cake eating on my part) I told him directly that I can’t offer him my friendship outside of our marriage. BUT one of his main complaints about me is that I wasn’t his friend when he was still in the marriage. All that said, I’m trying to figure out how I can show that I’m capable of being a good friend to him, without giving too much of myself or allowing more cake eating, and while still keeping my conversation fairly scarce. I almost feel that those desired outcomes are in conflict with one another; I feel like to 180 the “not being his friend” id have to be more friendly then perhaps the rule would ask of a typical LBS? I so appreciate your response! Thank you!
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise. 37. NEVER LIE! When getting a life or trying to be mysterious….do not lie in order to be able to do it. You can be somewhat vague about what your plans are by not revealing all the details, but never even resemble lying to your spouse! Lying is not Dbing, so if you cannot carry out GAL on a particular time schedule without lying about what you are doing, then keep the trust and don’t lie to your spouse. 38. Do not keep company with the opposite sex. Do not turn to old friends of the opposite sex to talk to about your problems or just to hang out with them. This is not getting a life! This is not acceptable for a MR in trouble and could lead to you getting involved in an EA. If you cannot have your spouse present while you are with the friend of the opposite sex…..then you do not need to be with that friend. That includes any type of regular calls, emails, TM’s, etc., with friends of the opposite sex without the spouse present. You may not understand the seriousness, but it would be like pouring gasoline on a fire. 39. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise. 37. NEVER LIE! When getting a life or trying to be mysterious….do not lie in order to be able to do it. You can be somewhat vague about what your plans are by not revealing all the details, but never even resemble lying to your spouse! Lying is not Dbing, so if you cannot carry out GAL on a particular time schedule without lying about what you are doing, then keep the trust and don’t lie to your spouse. 38. Do not keep company with the opposite sex. Do not turn to old friends of the opposite sex to talk to about your problems or just to hang out with them. This is not getting a life! This is not acceptable for a MR in trouble and could lead to you getting involved in an EA. If you cannot have your spouse present while you are with the friend of the opposite sex…..then you do not need to be with that friend. That includes any type of regular calls, emails, TM’s, etc., with friends of the opposite sex without the spouse present. You may not understand the seriousness, but it would be like pouring gasoline on a fire. 39. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
I almost had an issue with 38. Went to an old friend to discuss when things started going south fast. She told me she wanted to be with me, and it was very tempting whenever the next shoe would drop in my MR. However, I have resisted amd told her I cannot do anything and will remain true to my vows. If not for my invigorated faith, and my daughter, I think I would have succumbed.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise. 37. NEVER LIE! When getting a life or trying to be mysterious….do not lie in order to be able to do it. You can be somewhat vague about what your plans are by not revealing all the details, but never even resemble lying to your spouse! Lying is not Dbing, so if you cannot carry out GAL on a particular time schedule without lying about what you are doing, then keep the trust and don’t lie to your spouse. 38. Do not keep company with the opposite sex. Do not turn to old friends of the opposite sex to talk to about your problems or just to hang out with them. This is not getting a life! This is not acceptable for a MR in trouble and could lead to you getting involved in an EA. If you cannot have your spouse present while you are with the friend of the opposite sex…..then you do not need to be with that friend. That includes any type of regular calls, emails, TM’s, etc., with friends of the opposite sex without the spouse present. You may not understand the seriousness, but it would be like pouring gasoline on a fire. 39. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
So is it that the only reason to not have time/support of members of opposite sex is strictly due to risk of EA???
I have a dear childhood friend who has been the for me thru this bigtime. He lives several states away. There is NO risk of EA. We have always had a special friendship to the point a teacher in high school gave us nicknames that we still use to this day.
Now, now H knows he is a close friend. And shortly after BD... he made a horrible comment that now I could be with this with friend... no desire... never going to happen. H also got into my FB acct and saw that we had been messaging and read those messages... which were in fact all about H and my regrets in the relationship in regards to how I dropped the ball... my pain... etc. H also admitted after trying to hack into my acct that he thought this friend was in town... NOT the case and i made it clear to H that he is not in town.
Did I see myself back by leaning on this friend who is opposite sex... and H is feeling justified in then having an A???
Ther is no risk of EA with this friend... ever but is that the only reason to avoid friends of the opposite sex?
38. Do not keep company with the opposite sex. Do not turn to old friends of the opposite sex to talk to about your problems or just to hang out with them. This is not getting a life! This is not acceptable for a MR in trouble and could lead to you getting involved in an EA. If you cannot have your spouse present while you are with the friend of the opposite sex…..then you do not need to be with that friend. That includes any type of regular calls, emails, TM’s, etc., with friends of the opposite sex without the spouse present. You may not understand the seriousness, but it would be like pouring gasoline on a fire.
So is it that the only reason to not have time/support of members of opposite sex is strictly due to risk of EA???
I have a dear childhood friend who has been the for me thru this bigtime. He lives several states away. There is NO risk of EA. We have always had a special friendship to the point a teacher in high school gave us nicknames that we still use to this day.
I apologize for being a little late in seeing your post regarding the rule above.
You have a valid question, and I wish I had added more to #38, but I get so wordy, I was trying to keep it short. Actually, I've seen many cases where the friendship was not with the opposite, but the friend was not a friend to the marriage. Know what I mean?
Let's go back to friends of the opposite sex. Due to the emotional hurt inflicted, low self-esteem, and the emotions being all over the place.......it can render vulnerability. Under those conditions, the male friend's tender concern, special attention, time, soothing words and maybe compliments (which were to encourage you) and it was an ego shot. That's exactly how some EA's begin, b/c the ego shot becomes addicting when you feel starved, so you go back for more "encouragement", b/c it helps you feel better about yourself. Something sparks some feeling that would, ordinarily not happen. You weren't looking for it, but under right circumstances, emotions can get us into trouble if we aren't very aware of what's really happening and why.
He may feel more like your brother, IDK. I'm just sharing what has happened to other people.
Is your friendship with this man exclusive from your H, and your friend's W? I don't mean it's a secret, but this is not a couple's friendship.
As the LBS, you must feel hurt and your self-esteem may be in the tank. As women, most of us feel the need to turn to another female friend or family member to talk. Turning to a male friend to discuss intimate things, such as your H and/or your MR, could be seen as inappropriate to your spouse.........and to your friend's spouse, if he is married. Perhaps neither spouse has said it, b/c they didn't want to appear petty, but having a "special friendship" with the opposite sex can cause jealousy. That doesn't mean they are suspicious of an EA, or more, but when the MR is not where it needs to be......they are jealous of another person receiving more time/attention than them. What if your H had a "special friendship" with a woman, talking to her about his unhappiness with you and the MR? What if their friendship was the two of them, and you were left out? I know we may not admit to feeling jealous, but we might make a few comments letting him know we aren't thrilled that he can turn to a female "friend".
Quote
H knows he is a close friend. And shortly after BD... he made a horrible comment that now I could be with this with friend...
Yes, he is aware of the male's closeness to you, and I dare say it has been a thorn in his flesh. It's just human nature, b/c you were not giving your H the physical touches, personal attention, admiration, etc.
Quote
no desire... never going to happen.
But it does no good trying to verbally explain to your spouse how your "special friendship" with this man is never going to turn sexual. What matters is how this friendship made your H feel. Judging by his comment and actions, I'm guessing it was more painful than you thought.
Quote
H also got into my FB acct and saw that we had been messaging and read those messages... which were in fact all about H and my regrets in the relationship in regards to how I dropped the ball... my pain... etc. H also admitted after trying to hack into my acct that he thought this friend was in town... NOT the case and i made it clear to H that he is not in town.
Put yourself in his shoes. You had been almost unapproachable for your H, but not this other guy. It obviously didn't help when he read the messages, where you talked about private things with your friend. Would he have felt the same, if your friend was a woman instead of a man?
Here's the thing, Kitcat. If you have a friendship with anyone, male or female, and your H is saying enough that you know he isn't thrilled about it.........why would you continue the friendship? I get it.......you've known the friend forever, but which is more important to you..........your friend or your H? Which relationship is more important to save?
I looked up the first few posts in your initial thread, and I immediately thought your H must be having an affair. But when I read about the male friend, it clicked. It all makes sense that your H could feel something more is going on between you and OM, b/c you were withholding the emotional needs of your H. That's what women do when they have another man in their head. All the protests that you could never feel anything but a friend, will not mend your H's heart.....as long as he's not getting his needs met. Maybe he was trying to figure out why you became distant to him, and that's why he went searching through your messages.
So, you may have to make a choice, which relationship is more important to you.
((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
As a P.S........... I haven't read your story, just the first few posts, so your H may be in an affair, IDK. If so, then hopefully, something else in my post might shed light on my reason for the rule.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Wow, this thread really provides valuable guidance - before reading the first post, I either broke some of the rules, or would instinctively break them if I haven't read this. Thanks a lot for sharing the wisdom!
Me: 33 W: 35 D: 2 Together: June 2010 Married: June 2016
sandi, could you elaborate on "36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise."
I am pretty sure about what you are getting at this this rule. But I'd love for you to change to something longer and more explicit. So many of our newcomers to the board are falling into the trap of thinking that the only way they can move on from their WAS is to replace them with someone else. To me that is a cop out. It is extremely unhealthy thinking. And as you so eloquently put it: "other problems easily arise". So I am pretty sure that was the spirit of what you were getting at, whether the meeting of the new person is at a bar, an online dating app, an introduction by someone you know, etc.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
