Nice guy Syndrome!

[Element]

Hi DBers - Any advice out there on whether or not to expose that you're aware of your W being with OM?

[Vanilla]

You have been separated for 4 years?

Then she isn't being unfaithful. It is adultery as you are not D. If it's a fault state it makes a difference.

And much as I and you don't like her dropping her knickers for a married man. Frankly it's none of your business. The only open question is OM W and whilst she deserves to know, then it's probably not your job to tell her.

I don't give advice just my opinion.

I don't know why you aren't D with a parenting Plan might be time to live your life, if like V you want to be D before dating seems like now is the time.

V

[Element]

Thanks Vanilla. I respect your opinion. Now that I’ve had more time to think about it, and talked with a friend of mine, I’m of the opinion that I just keep it to myself.

I know 4 years sounds crazy. I actually had lost track of how long its been. There’s a lot of drama constantly coming from her that she gets me swept up in. Because I’m a nice guy, I’ve been there for her all along the way thinking she would see what a mistake it is not to be together. I definitely feel different now.

The more I’ve pulled back this week, by not reaching out and having other plans, the more she has been inquisitive as to what I’m up to. And I feel better for it, much better.

[Element]

Had convo with W about having a formal separation agreement in place. She brought it up. I totally agreed with her, and did so very calmly. This threw her off a bit. She started crying. She started saying things to me like I deserve to move on with my life, deserve to be happy, to be with someone. She brought up that a couple of years ago during an argument that I told her i was moving on, was dating, therefore i can now be free to do that without having her as a burden. She also said she has not and is not seeing anyone. Starting saying that she’ll probably be alone for the rest of her life, who would want to be with her. I didnt say a word about what i knew about her trying to lure away this OM.

At any rate, i will happily put together a formal separation agreement. I expect this to be a dose of reality for her. Right now she has her cake and eats it too. Selling the house, having the kids every other week will be a total shock to her system. I fully expect major drama to come now.

[SteveLW]

Had convo with W about having a formal separation agreement in place. She brought it up. I totally agreed with her, and did so very calmly. This threw her off a bit. She started crying. She started saying things to me like I deserve to move on with my life, deserve to be happy, to be with someone. She brought up that a couple of years ago during an argument that I told her i was moving on, was dating, therefore i can now be free to do that without having her as a burden. She also said she has not and is not seeing anyone. Starting saying that she’ll probably be alone for the rest of her life, who would want to be with her. I didnt say a word about what i knew about her trying to lure away this OM.

At any rate, i will happily put together a formal separation agreement. I expect this to be a dose of reality for her. Right now she has her cake and eats it too. Selling the house, having the kids every other week will be a total shock to her system. I fully expect major drama to come now.

Interesting. Your situation sounds similar to mine. When I confronted her about her online emotional affair, she said she didn't want to be married anymore. She had this whole fantastical plan worked out in her head:

1) She would get a job.
2) She'd get an apartment.
3) We'd get a quickie online divorce for $139.
4) I'd keep the house and my daughter would live with me most of the time.
5) She'd keep a key and a lot of our family dynamic would remain the same.
6) Her and I would remain close friends, even going out on dates and spending mutual time with our daughter.

All precipitated by the fact that she is turning 50 next month and feels this is her last chance at happiness. Apparently she wanted many of the things she already had but she also wanted to be free to date and sleep with other people. (She never came out and admitted this, but you don't need your own place for any other reason!)

When I began to shatter her illusion she started to sober up a bit.

1 & 2) I told her she would have to get a real job using her degree in order to be self-sufficient. Not some retail or restaurant job where she got to set her own hours.

3) No such thing as a quickie divorce with kids. That there would be lawyers involved and it would take at least a year (here in Michigan) if not longer!

4) We'd sell the house and split the profit. It was the only fair thing to after 19 years (in April) of marriage. This one hit her hard. My daughter loves our house and property and my wife knows our daughter will be very angry over this.

5 & 6) I began to unravel this fantasy pointing out that new people in our lives wouldn't appreciate that type of relationship. Plus reality was we'd begin to really pull back from each other and our only common connection would be our daughter.

As reality has hit her over the last 2 months I she has started to rethink things. She still isn't ready to let go of the fantasy entirely, but her behavior has been to get on board with staying and making things better.

[Element]

Hey Steve85,

Definitely some similarities there. My W has never held a steady job and will certainly have a tough time making enough money to have a standard of living she’s been used to. I think in her fantasy-head, she’d like us to remain friends, be able to spend quality family time together, have full custody of the kids, and somehow sustain her standard of living. It’s totally unrealistic.

She’s got a friend encouraging her to formalizing S, leading to D, so she can have her “freedom”. Again, this is wishful thinking. Her family means a lot to her, the kids mean everything to her. She’s foolish to think that she can be free of the emotional grip.

As MWD says, when the marriage ends, it means the death of the family and this really shakes the children and in-turn the ex-couple. The financial burden is often overlooked, minimized, or denied.

As I put together a formal S agreement, I will call it like it is and let her see what is to come. It’s a good hard dose of reality that is long overdue.

[sandi2]

Can you give us some marital history? Why did the two of you separate?

I’m struggling on whether or not to expose my knowledge of this, and if so how and to who.

What do you wish to accomplish by exposing her? What would you be exposing, that she is planning to meet this OM? Do you have any proof, other than what your kids said? Do you know the OM personally?

It's JMHO that you should not step off into exposing her. You have been physically separated for four years, so unless this man is threating harm to your children, or he is into criminal activity, or something equally as bad.......then your actions could be seen as punitive, controlling, jealous, and host of other negative things. All in all, if your intentions are to get your W to fall into your arms......exposing her probably won't be favorable.

She also said she has not and is not seeing anyone. Starting saying that she’ll probably be alone for the rest of her life, who would want to be with her. I didnt say a word about what i knew about her trying to lure away this OM.

Is this the first time you have seen her in this light (playing the victim, lying, etc.)?

At any rate, i will happily put together a formal separation agreement. I expect this to be a dose of reality for her. Right now she has her cake and eats it too. Selling the house, having the kids every other week will be a total shock to her system.

So, has she not had to share equal time with the kids? I suppose with you being there, doing handiwork around the house, plus being with the kids, has served her a lot of cake. If she has not had to go to work and if you are supporting her in every way.....just as you did before separation, then removing all of it will be more shock than just the S agreement in place.

Until we hear more about what led to the S, then IMHO...it's time to get an agreement in place. Why does she get to stay home and not work, while you can't even afford a place to live? It's time you had a place to live, instead of staying with your parents.

If she is a WW, then I'm sure she is not going to like any agreement that is actually "fair" to both of you. It sounds as if you have spoiled her in many ways. If so, then she's not going to be happy about giving up anything.

But before assuming too much, we really need to hear the background story.

[Element]

Can you give us some marital history? Why did the two of you separate?

The separation was initiated by her. We were having intimacy issues after our second child. This was compounded by having to deal with 2 kids with special needs. She had also been in an accident that caused her physical restrictions (back pain, lots of headaches). Leading up to the separation, she had classic WAW issues going on. We went to some marriage counselling, then stopped after about 6 session, but things didn't get any better. I actually thought things were getting better, but then she hit me with wanting to separate again. We did some more counselling, but she felt out counselor was siding with me. I did all the wrong things ... pleading, begging, showing her I can change. She then but the blame on the breakdown on me, saying I was the one who gave up on her. As it was not good living under the same roof with a WAW, she asked that we physically separate. Our only option at that time was for me to move with my parents as she has no family where we live.

What do you wish to accomplish by exposing her? What would you be exposing, that she is planning to meet this OM? Do you have any proof, other than what your kids said? Do you know the OM personally?

My kids didn't say anything, they don't know. I discovered via a poorly timed TM she received that was explicit. I do not know the OM personally. I just found out about this, so the hurt was pretty bad. I thought we were making progress. She had just settled her injury case that had dragged on for 8 years and had talked about starting fresh. I thought perhaps she meant together, so that's why I'm so hurt by it. Now that I've had more time to think about it, I don't think exposing it will serve any good purpose. In terms of proof, lets just say I saw some sexually explicit TM's that made reference to getting together before, and plans to get together again.

Is this the first time you have seen her in this light (playing the victim, lying, etc.)?

Oh god no. She plays the victim all the time. She could write a book on how many people have wronged her. Whether it be her family, my family, her friends, my friends, her colleagues ... in terms of lying, I've not seen that before. However I can understand why she would not reveal this with the OM.

So, has she not had to share equal time with the kids? I suppose with you being there, doing handiwork around the house, plus being with the kids, has served her a lot of cake. If she has not had to go to work and if you are supporting her in every way.....just as you did before separation, then removing all of it will be more shock than just the S agreement in place.

We've managed to have somewhat equal time given our situation, just that I'm not parenting while they're sleeping as I'm back at my parents place.

Why does she get to stay home and not work, while you can't even afford a place to live? It's time you had a place to live, instead of staying with your parents.

She's had a few jobs from running her own business, to working sales, now starting a new business again. But the work and pay is nowhere remotely close to what I make.

[Element]

Sandi - in addition to above, I’ll respond to this

If she is a WW, then I’m sure she is not going to like any agreement that is actually "fair" to both of you. It sounds as if you have spoiled her in many ways. If so, then she's not going to be happy about giving up anything.

Back when we first separated, I felt she was a classic WAW. I’d say our separation is definitely not the norm. I’ve been there for the kids, our home, and for her. How close we’ve been has varied, but an example is that we just went away as a family for 10 days. There’s hasn’t been proper detachment, from both sides. This is why I feel she is acting more like a WW now that she’s pursuing this OM. This guy is likely not going to give up his life with W he shares a business with and their 3 kids so he can be with my W. Seems pure fantasy to me, and probably more of a tryst for him.

The other day when she was crying, when she got all down on herself, she also said “you said you’d take care or me”. Previous meltdowns she has said “just promise me you won’t take the kids away from me. They’re my life”. To me that’s just an absurd thing to think. The law if anything would dictate equal rights. Perhaps she doesn’t even want me to take them half time, I don’t know as she’s never explicitly said that.

She has also said that she feels bad that I have to live at my parents and that I should have my own place. I had told her that’s not really feasible unless we formally separate/divorce and sell the house. She then at one point says maybe we could get a couple of condos or townhouse/row houses near each other. Just crazy stuff. She has waffled over the separation years by saying “we need to sell the house, I can’t keep up with the maintenance, I need to get a smaller place” to then talk about renovations, painting, upgrading the garden, etc. Then waffling back and forth between usage of “my place” and “our home”.

So at any rate, I’m working on putting together a proper separation agreement with the help of a friend who recently separated and has a legal agreement. Not sure how far I’ll go as I do want to wait and see what the response is. For instance, forcing us to sell the house now will be very stressful not just for her, but me and my kids (primary concern is kids).

[sandi2]

Just to clarify, did she ever give you a specified reason for wanting a separation? Did she have a just cause in wanting to S? In other words, were you mean or abusive in any way? Had you been unfaithful? Did you have an addiction? It is very important that we know the cause behind the S. And, if you don't know the cause........then that's important, too.

Am I correct in saying you have financially supported your W during the four years of separation? I don't mean child support, but you supported her, as well. Was this the reason she was not forced to find a job to support herself, or was she not physically well enough to work?

Was there ever any other time you S?

How long was it between the time second child was born and she had the accident? You were already experiencing intimacy problems before the accident, right? So, how well did you cope with little sex after she was left with back pain and headaches? Was her pain continuous, or occasionally?

As soon as you can answer these questions, I will respond to the other things you've posted.