sandi2, another question. I see your suggestions for dealing with a WW in an A. You don't specify what kind of A. What if it is wholly an EA, no physical contact. In fact, the OM is several states away and neither has the money or time setup meetings.
Should I still get her out of the marital BR? Should I still withdraw all the other things you suggest?
It really causes frustration when i read a statement like this, b/c I feel I must not have made myself clear. You have to bear in mind that was directed to a general audience here on the board, not to a specific individual's case. Although I tried to give scenario's behind my suggestions of what to "withdraw" (as you put it), maybe I missed the mark. Some WW's are like dealing with a shedevil, while others do not act out their rebellion as openly/badly. Some WW's are more defiant, hateful, disrespectful, on & on. It depends upon how deep into the wayward activity, and if the couple is separated, how she responds, etc., as to what action the H takes.
If she is in a PA, and she knows her H is aware of the A.......and if she is not willing to end it, then IMHO, the H should request that she not remain in the marital bedroom. If she doesn't know that he is aware of the A, then it's up to him if he wants her to sleep elsewhere. A lot depends upon how she shows respect toward him in front of the children & others, as well as how she treats him in everything else. If there has been nothing said about an A, then if he tells her to sleep elsewhere......then of course, he'll probably need to address the reason behind it. Personally, I find it difficult to understand why a spouse would want to continue sleeping with the unfaithful spouse, but that's just me. Many H's have asked if they have to ask their WW to leave the marital bedroom. My answer is, "No, if you want to sleep with an unfaithful W, that's your business". My point behind having the WW leave the marital bedroom is this: The H demonstrates his position as the head of the home, and his unwillingness to engage in an open marriage. If his WW has involved a third person, she has forced the M into an open sexual relationship. If he has told her to end the A, and she refuses.......then that clearly throws the ball back to him. What is his next move? Unless he intends to throw her out of the house, then I suggest he has her leave their marital bedroom. I hope you read what the marital bedroom represents in the home and the family. So, with that in mind, and considering the bed has been defiled by the WW's infidelity, what does the H do to show that he will not support an open M?
If the WW is in an EA only, it is a little more complicated for me to give a one size fits all answer. Is the OM aware of her feelings? Has OM encourage the EA? Does he return the same attention/affection? Are they texting each other, or doing something that is inappropriate? Is she keeping her A activity private/secret? What if the OM has no clue of the WW's thoughts/feelings about him. See what I mean? If she is conducting herself in any inappropriate way, and the H has discussed it with her, and his WW refuses to stop........then what does he do? He may not be able to force her to stop an A, but he can refuse to engage in intimacy and/or sleeping with her in what is designed as the marital bedroom......while she is trying to have another man. Requesting that she sleeps somewhere other than in the marital bedroom, is not a punitive action. As the leader of the home, it is the H's responsibility to enforce respect for the marriage & home to the best of his ability.......including the marital bedroom. If he has not been the unfaithful spouse, then why should he be the one to sleep on the couch?
When the WW leaves the marital bedroom, she experiences a taste of reality. It's like punching a little hole in her fantasy bubble. There are consequences when one chooses to cheat. Whether it is an affair of the heart, or physical infedelity.......she has invited another man into an institution designed by God for two people to love each other intimately and safely within that sexual union. If she does not wish to be faithful, then she should divorce her H, rather than engage in infidelity.
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Sandi, however, some of the steps you advocate (removing from the MBR, withdrawing of financial support, etc) seems more strong than the above definition of detachment.
I fail to make the same connection that you are seeing. I copied and pasted the previous terms of detachment, b/c it was a shorter and more simply written. (The link on the homework page goes into greater detail). My threads on the WW do not contradict detaching, or vise-versa. Maybe you could point out which part you saw on detachment?
BTW, in reference to withdrawing financial support (for anyone who has not read that thread), I believe it is regarding financing anything that enables the A or her GGW lifestyle, and if there is a separation.......not financing the WW beyond the acceptable child support. Just wanted to clarify that part.
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I think if I do what you suggest in the thread I linked above then she will feel abandoned. The list you just cut and paste is absolutely something I can try and employ. It will be difficult but I can work on it.
If you can accomplish the detaching, that's great. As for her feeling abandoned............really? She is on OM#2, right? (If I have not confused posters). The fact that he lives in another state does not mean your M is safe and that she is not involved whole heartily in an affair. There is no skin on skin. Otherwise, the OM is filling that need for her, while you take care of other needs (like food and shelter). With today's technology......there is quite a bit that can be done to satisfy the long distant lover. Sorry to be so blunt, but you need to realize that EA's are extremely serious for women. Men seem to put more emphasis on the physical part of an affair. However, it is not the same for women. Their emotions are tied to their soul, so an emotional affair runs very deeply for them. That's why many W's and mothers have left their families to go meet some other guy who lives across the country.
Look, if you don't want to follow my suggestions you read in the WW threads, that's fine. This is your life and your decision. However, I strongly encourage you to follow the detaching.
I don't know your W......but I do know her in a way. She is in serious trouble. The more you cater to her, protect her from consequences, and continue to be the nice-guy H who is afraid to apply tough love.........the closer you are to losing her forever. I don't want you making any big moves before you understand and know what you are doing and why. If I am reading you correctly, you are misunderstanding what I was saying in my thread. Maybe you read too quickly, or maybe I just failed to relay properly. I'll be glad to try to clarify something, if you will be more specific.
If you do nothing, what do you expect to happen? I mean, seriously. Do you think this will just run its course and then everything will return to normal? I hope you will prove my bad feeling wrong. My concern is that you are going to take no action that is uncomfortable, and you will go along for the ride. I hope not. I hope you won't lay down and roll over, thinking everything will eventually work itself out. I hope you will stand tall and be a man of courage and strength.
I encourage you to stick with us. Keep reading, and keep posting. This is going to get much worse before it gets better. Buckle up!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you Sandi. I'm going to start detaching. I'm not planning to sit back. I know i need to give her consequences. But my situation is a little different in ways.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I've scanned your story in brief cause I'm just so busy with my kids I struggle for time, so please accept my apologies if my two cents are not helpful at all. But, my W had depression and physical issues etc. I was convinced this caused all her problems. We were together for 17 years, childhood sweethearts, she was a respected member of the community and had no real marital issues out of the ordinary. Its been nearly 6 months since she abandoned me and our young kids for another man. Still have not got a clue how long the A was going on for, but by all estimates on and off for 2 years.
In the beginning, I was devastated to say the least. Now I'm still hurting, but I can honestly say she has set me free. I day dreamed about her turning up at the door full of apologies and remorse. Now I keep my doors locked on the chance it could happen. I am a man of morals, she is not, full stop! I know now I have loved the idea of who I thought she was, not the women she is. Do I wish it was different, yes! But it isn't and never will be, I am mourning the loss of what might have been, but it was a pipe dream that blew up the second she confided in another man and had her needs met elsewhere.
I realize this is a militant approach, but I so wish I had not danced for her in the beginning shouting pick me, and instead did the conga in the other direction!
I know i need to give her consequences. But my situation is a little different in ways.
Can you tell how it is different? Don't confuse consequences with punishment. I encourage you to read the link describing boundaries. Maybe it will explain consequences, better than I have.
I saw where you referred to the Mort Fertel methods. I never bought his tapes, but I once signed up for his newsletters. I know those type of letters are very "general", however, it appeared the message encouraged a pursuing type of behavior. Maybe it was just my frame of mind, IDK.
Do you feel a bit confused after reading from various authors and/or the forums?
Many years ago, I purchased a program that was advertised to save M's, put the sizzle back ino M's that had fizzled, etc. If I had had something like that right after my wedding it would have been great...a lot of fun, in fact. But I was in a place that was much more serious than what that program offered.
If you feel confused by what you read, hear others say, etc., you will have to choose what you feel has real "meat" and experience behind the message. In other words, don't get advice from some friend who has never experienced a similar situation.
Keep talking to us about your situation. Don't give up.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you sandi. I guess my situation is different in that my wife isn't doing anything to leave. Routinely talks about staying and even talks about future things that involve our family. its all very confusing. And while you were right in saying that she's on to OM2 in an EA, from the messages I saw it was more him than her. Though she admitted she could have told him to knock it off and did it.
She firmly has one foot in and one foot out of the marriage. And she's not your typical WW. She's different abd responds differently to different tactics. Do i have to tread carefully.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
she's not your typical WW. She's different abd responds differently to different tactics. Do i have to tread carefully.
That is what I am trying to get you tell us, Steve, how is she not the typical WW?
In talking to her this morning she said she is resigned to staying in the marriage. That is what I mean. I'd say on a scale from 1 to 10 in her waywardness she is at maybe a 5? The OM2 seems less of an issue as time goes on, and she is making strides to try to heal things between us. Just doesn't seem typical of what I read here from other WW.
Admittedly part of it might be cake eating? IDK.
I am going to start the pull back today and see what happens.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thank you sandi. I guess my situation is different in that my wife isn't doing anything to leave. Routinely talks about staying and even talks about future things that involve our family. its all very confusing. And while you were right in saying that she's on to OM2 in an EA, from the messages I saw it was more him than her. Though she admitted she could have told him to knock it off and did it.
She firmly has one foot in and one foot out of the marriage. And she's not your typical WW. She's different abd responds differently to different tactics. Do i have to tread carefully.
Frankly, this doesnt sound that unique. To me, it sounds less like 'one foot in' and more like 'one foot remaining'. One phrase Ive heard here is that a monkey doesnt leave a branch it's holding until it has another one to swing to. That sounds like your W to me from what you describe. Most of the Ws here have already found the next branch and have let go; yours seems to be looking but isnt making any indications of holding on to the one she has for the long haul. I mean, she knows and can see how much distress this singing app has brought to the marriage, and yet, it's so important to her that she cant let it go?
Im not saying you need to kick her out or go to LRT. I am saying that you need to start with "the 37" and really take them to heart. You need to BE the most attractive option.
