Thank you sandi. I guess my situation is different in that my wife isn't doing anything to leave. Routinely talks about staying and even talks about future things that involve our family. its all very confusing. And while you were right in saying that she's on to OM2 in an EA, from the messages I saw it was more him than her. Though she admitted she could have told him to knock it off and did it.
She firmly has one foot in and one foot out of the marriage. And she's not your typical WW. She's different abd responds differently to different tactics. Do i have to tread carefully.
Frankly, this doesnt sound that unique. To me, it sounds less like 'one foot in' and more like 'one foot remaining'. One phrase Ive heard here is that a monkey doesnt leave a branch it's holding until it has another one to swing to. That sounds like your W to me from what you describe. Most of the Ws here have already found the next branch and have let go; yours seems to be looking but isnt making any indications of holding on to the one she has for the long haul. I mean, she knows and can see how much distress this singing app has brought to the marriage, and yet, it's so important to her that she cant let it go?
Im not saying you need to kick her out or go to LRT. I am saying that you need to start with "the 37" and really take them to heart. You need to BE the most attractive option.
Thanks, I agree with everything you say. I've even talked to her about this. She claims that she wants no real relationship with anyone. That the "flirting" online she has engaged in recently is more just fulfilling a need to flirt without the pressure or expectation of it going any further since she has chosen to engage in that with these guys that live so far away. When I pointed out that they didn't have two nickels to rub together and therefore are in no position to be a "branch to support her". She quickly came back with that she isn't looking for anyone to take care of her. That getting her own job and getting her own apartment is how she is going to take care of herself. Again, she is taking no action towards doing any of that.
So yes she is WW, but not in the same way so many others here seem to be dealing with. Maybe it was because I caught it early? (As I've stated in earlier posts in this thread.) Maybe if I had remained oblivious I would have been slammed in the face with the reality that she had found another branch to jump too.
We've had discussions about the app in the last few days. The thing is that it does make her happy to sing, and I can't really tell her I want her to be happy and not want her to use the app. She claims that her time spent on the app is 95% just singing, and she can handle the 5% that is the social side without crossing any lines. However, I need to move into the IDC territory on this. As you say, instead of trying to root out all of her other choices, just make myself the best choice I can be.
You mention the 37? I haven't seen that reference before. Can you point me to a reference for that?
Operation Detachment begins today.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks, I agree with everything you say. I've even talked to her about this. She claims that she wants no real relationship with anyone.
Maybe start with the rule about "not believing anything she says"... It isnt really about OM. Its about the needs that she is looking to get filled. Somehow, she is in a position where going on this app for some sort of validation. Dont take that she isnt looking for a new relationship to mean that she is invested in yours.
Originally Posted By: Steve85
That the "flirting" online she has engaged in recently is more just fulfilling a need to flirt without the pressure or expectation of it going any further since she has chosen to engage in that with these guys that live so far away.
And thats.....somehow....OK? I mean,are you ok that your wife hangs out for hours a day on a phone app chatting with who knows how many other people?
Originally Posted By: Steve85
When I pointed out that they didn't have two nickels to rub together and therefore are in no position to be a "branch to support her". She quickly came back with that she isn't looking for anyone to take care of her. That getting her own job and getting her own apartment is how she is going to take care of herself. Again, she is taking no action towards doing any of that.
Because.....shes lying? To you and herself probably. Who would want to go out and do all of those things, when she has the best of both worlds right now? Youre there as a safety net she has "resigned" herself to be with. And in the meantime, she can peruse the who knows how many other guys out there in case theres a 'better offer'. That doesnt sound like a woman that wants to be with you. Is that a marriage youre content to live in for the rest of your life?
Originally Posted By: Steve85
So yes she is WW, but not in the same way so many others here seem to be dealing with. Maybe it was because I caught it early? (As I've stated in earlier posts in this thread.) Maybe if I had remained oblivious I would have been slammed in the face with the reality that she had found another branch to jump too.
Its not that it's early. Its that she hasnt found a real OM yet. Right now, its mostly imaginary. She sounds plenty wayward to me.
Originally Posted By: Steve85
We've had discussions about the app in the last few days. The thing is that it does make her happy to sing, and I can't really tell her I want her to be happy and not want her to use the app. She claims that her time spent on the app is 95% just singing, and she can handle the 5% that is the social side without crossing any lines.
Nobody "needs" to spend 5 hours singing into an app on their phone to be 'happy'. Are you serious with that? There are plenty of healthy singing outlets. Tell her to go take lessons or a class or fill your home with music. Isolating herself to sing with other people on the internet is NOT ABOUT THE SINGING. If you made her choose between you and the app, what do you think she would pick?
I went and reread Sandi's 37 rules. I also read her first LBH thread with the statements about her current state of mind. I need to keep reminding myself of all of that.
I decided this morning to begin to detach. Brought my work out clothes to go to the company gym after work. Am going to GAL, stay busy. Stay alert and attentive when home but not overtly talkative or requiring her attention. All of what Sandi says to do.
Ironically, she a few minutes ago began texting me. Nonstop for several minutes. I answered her questions but tried to remain cool and detached. It was almost 2 to 1 her texts to my responses. Including a "How is your day going?" She has not asked me that in text in months!! Could she already be detecting my detachment after just one morning?!?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
I am a lifelong IT guy and have multiple ways to check up on her even if she doesn't want me to. Any thoughts on how to best stop being obsessed with snooping/spying?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Good question. She gave it up for two days last week (mon and tues) and was in a deep depression.
Exactly. I would say the fact that there is even a question suggest to me a level of waywardness well above a 5. It also suggests it's about way more than 'singing'.
Also, one thing happened yesterday that really made me take notice.
We were in the drive thru of Arby's (okay not the best choice but we were hungry). She had ordered a small choc. milkshake, so I ordered a snack size jamocha shake. We were talking about she hates coffee or anything coffee related, and she made a "throw up" sound. I laughed and mimicked it.
She stopped, looked at me, and said: "Who are you?" I was like, "what do you mean?". She said "you went -insert throw up sound-. You haven't done that since we were dating and you were trying to impress me!" I took a page from the Madagascar penguins and just smiled and waved! (ok I didn't wave, but I did just smile and continued on without responding). This detaching and being fun and intriguing and interesting is all good stuff and really works!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
I am a lifelong IT guy and have multiple ways to check up on her even if she doesn't want me to. Any thoughts on how to best stop being obsessed with snooping/spying?
What information have you learned from the access that you have? What is the result of any further spying?
To me, it's like touching a stove. Sometimes it takes a while to learn that it's hot.
I remember when my XW and I had shared phone records. I could go on and see every time she made a call. At some point, I discovered that she was talking to OM for hours a day on the phone. I used to check those records two or three times every day to see whether she had called him. She never agreed not to. It was just me seeing whether she was going to pick me and our marriage. And every time I saw that number it was like a dagger in my heart. She had already made the call...I wasnt going to talk to her about it...It was just me spying. The only person getting hurt from my spying was me. The only impact that the spying had was to hurt me.
Eventually, I decided that I didnt want to hurt myself anymore.
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
I am a lifelong IT guy and have multiple ways to check up on her even if she doesn't want me to. Any thoughts on how to best stop being obsessed with snooping/spying?
What information have you learned from the access that you have? What is the result of any further spying?
To me, it's like touching a stove. Sometimes it takes a while to learn that it's hot.
I remember when my XW and I had shared phone records. I could go on and see every time she made a call. At some point, I discovered that she was talking to OM for hours a day on the phone. I used to check those records two or three times every day to see whether she had called him. She never agreed not to. It was just me seeing whether she was going to pick me and our marriage. And every time I saw that number it was like a dagger in my heart. She had already made the call...I wasnt going to talk to her about it...It was just me spying. The only person getting hurt from my spying was me. The only impact that the spying had was to hurt me.
Eventually, I decided that I didnt want to hurt myself anymore.
I totally get that. And agree. Yet I still have a compulsion to do it! I need techniques to redirect myself whenever I want to go spy/snoop. I don't do it every time. Maybe once out of every 10 thoughts to do so, in whatever capacity I have to do it (which is several different avenues). I am closing those capacities over time, but when that 10th time strikes it is so hard not to do. Even if it just a demand for her to unlock her phone and hand it to me. I KNOW I KNOW, pursuing tactic.
Someone please give me a technique that works, if such a technique exists.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
