Wife on antidepressants, acting strange!

[SteveLW]

Mach 1 thanks. I will answer your questions later. Just an update, I was diagnosed with a sinus infection, the drainage causing lunch inflammation. On antibiotic, some stronger cough med (prescription) and rest and fluids.

I am really tired this afternoon after taking the antibiotics (z pack).

[sandi2]

Are you suggesting that i give her that ultimatum? Or do I just do the detach and 180?

No, I am not suggesting you give her an ultimatum.

But you know, setting boundaries and giving ultimatums are not the same.

This is a profound change in her and I don't expect it will ever change back.

Why? Look, you have reason to be discouraged, but you don't have to be defeated. As I told you earlier, I was doing much of the same behavior as your W (probably worse). I joined the board in the summer of 2007 and I am still here. Do you know why I hang around this board? When I joined I was still in an affair, but I had reached a point I wanted someone to help me sort things out. I was blessed to have the right people mentor me. I give this board a lot of credit for steering me in the right direction. My M was saved, and I am here today telling you that your M can be saved too. If I didn't believe it, I would not spend my time trying to help you.

I don't hold back much, and maybe I speak too bluntly, but I do that to get you to open your eyes and so you'll start putting your energy toward what works. I don't do it to make you give up. You said it has been the past six months she has changed the most. To me, that alone has hope.

Yes I've always been a bit of a rescuer for her. A fixer. She'd make a mess I'd clean it up. I realize now that it healthy. That she needed to learn to clean up after herself.

Okay, so start here ^^^^^^^. We learn to detach means that we stop being the rescuer. Leave her mess for her to clean up. Don't make the mistake of thinking that spoiling her rotten is showing her how much you love her. It only makes her a rotten! It's time you stop being a father to her.

Also, I have been physically detached in the marriage for so long, that detachment may not work. Yes I am trying now to emotionally detach (IE not react to her words and deeds), and she is taking notice. (Asked me again today if anything was wrong.)

You may be right about you being too detached physically. If she was left alone too much, then that may be why she started the singing stuff. And her ego was apparently wanting to be fed, too. However, that doesn't necessarily mean it was b/c you ignored her. Some people can't get enough attention. Maybe you can enlighten us a little more about your situation.

[apothem]

Hi sandi,

I hate to threadjack, but I was wondering if you could provide some insight into my situation: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2778202&page=3

Thank you!

[SteveLW]

Why were you like that ?

How do you think that she perceived that ??

I guess I thought that is how I showed her I loved her. I think she perceived it as me loving her. She goes back to the times that I rescued her and says "you were awesome". But now I see looking back why this wasn't healthy. Support is one thing. Taking over and not letting her face her failures just made her see me not as a mate, but a mercenary.

Why would you think that she wanted a father figure, in the form of a husband ??

I don't necessarily think she wanted a father figure consciously. I think her subconscious was looking for one since she missed that for the entirety of her life.

Archery...check
Hunter....check

So am I...

Doesn't mean that I am any less for the other things in my life...

Given the choice of a happy, healthy marriage and those activities...

Which one would you CHOOSE ??

Happy, healthy marriage, no question. I am willing to give up all else except my faith in God and His Son for that.

Hope is yours..

It isn't up to anyone else to either provide that or strip that away from you...

Especially not any "well wishing" friends.

A true friend would never tell you to move on, or just get over her...

A true friend would look you in the eye and ask you what you need from them...

What does your gut tell you ??

My gut tells me I may not have the patience or longsuffering to wait for her. Though she continues to reluctantly lean toward staying and working on the MR, she still has her fantasy of a new life at 50yo. (she turns 50 next month). Having her own place, etc. I think as I've improved things here at home (and they have been 10 times better since BD) she has started let go of that a bit, but changing your mind is hard to do. She isn't quite ready to buckle in for the long haul yet.

Why were you detached ??

That one leaves me curious....

I had a lot of anger, resentment and bitterness because of the lack of sexual intimacy that started right after the wedding. The only time she really wanted to engage in sex was when she was trying to get pregnant. For the rest of the time I could count on both hands the times she really seemed to be into sex. The rest of the time it was a duty she performed like housework when she agreed to even have it. Eventually I quit trying and withdrew.

Every situation is unique. I appreciate the perspectives. I think the only thing that will really get her attention at this point is for met to file for D. But I will give her ample time to come around before I do that. For the MR's sake as well as the sake of my daughter.

OR...

You get her attention by backing away...following the 37 rules. Being different because you ARE different..

Sounds like some things in a book by MWD...

Agreed, and I am implementing those. As for the book, I can't find the book locally, it isn't available in digital form, and I can't order it because she will be the one to receive the package (she stays at home). I have read everything MWD has put online and I have even watched a lot of her videos. So I am on board with her methods.

I want to be able to look my daughter in the eye and tell her I did everything I could to save things.

Are you there ?

After a few months, you are there ???

It has only been 2 months. No I am not there. I have given her a year (I haven't told her that). If she isn't 100% committed to the marriage by the BD anniversary date I will file for D.

As far as who Steve is, my identity is very strong. That really isn't an issue. I know a few dozen postings on a message board don't necessarily tell that story, but trust me. I am not the one with a crisis of identity. Can I make improvements? Of course.

I'm not gonna say too much about this, other than...

I always question a person that feels the need to say "trust me"...

Not saying that you are that guy...

However...

What improvements would YOU like to see within yourself ?

I have already made a lot of the improvements. I am physically present in the home, not isolating myself into a room away from the family the way I was. I am not going to spend copious amounts of time up at the hunting property like I did. I am present, happy, upbeat, positive in my interactions with her. That is a 180 in and of itself. She is a terrible housekeeper especially spending the time she has been spending on her singing app. I just let it roll off my back now, or if it bothers me I happily do it (unlike the way I would do it in the past) myself.

I guess mostly I want those changes to be permanent. I am also going to start IC. We are in MC right now but she is talking about quitting. I am actually for her not continuing since her heart isn't really in it. I think I will get more out of IC, it will help me process all of this better and deal with it better.

[SteveLW]

This is a profound change in her and I don't expect it will ever change back.

Why? Look, you have reason to be discouraged, but you don't have to be defeated. As I told you earlier, I was doing much of the same behavior as your W (probably worse). I joined the board in the summer of 2007 and I am still here. Do you know why I hang around this board? When I joined I was still in an affair, but I had reached a point I wanted someone to help me sort things out. I was blessed to have the right people mentor me. I give this board a lot of credit for steering me in the right direction. My M was saved, and I am here today telling you that your M can be saved too. If I didn't believe it, I would not spend my time trying to help you.

I don't hold back much, and maybe I speak too bluntly, but I do that to get you to open your eyes and so you'll start putting your energy toward what works. I don't do it to make you give up. You said it has been the past six months she has changed the most. To me, that alone has hope.

Not sure I understand? Can you tell me why the fact that she has changed so much so recently lends hope?

Also, thank you so much sandi! You do not how much your help means to me. To have someone that has walked in similar shoes as my WW is huge.

]Yes I've always been a bit of a rescuer for her. A fixer. She'd make a mess I'd clean it up. I realize now that it healthy. That she needed to learn to clean up after herself.

Okay, so start here ^^^^^^^. We learn to detach means that we stop being the rescuer. Leave her mess for her to clean up. Don't make the mistake of thinking that spoiling her rotten is showing her how much you love her. It only makes her a rotten! It's time you stop being a father to her.
[/quote]

I have done this more than anything else. I have stop trying to parent her. Sometimes she slips back and starts to act like my child. I've been stopping her and telling her she is a grown woman can make her own decisions. She has actually responded very well to that.

Also, I have been physically detached in the marriage for so long, that detachment may not work. Yes I am trying now to emotionally detach (IE not react to her words and deeds), and she is taking notice. (Asked me again today if anything was wrong.)

You may be right about you being too detached physically. If she was left alone too much, then that may be why she started the singing stuff. And her ego was apparently wanting to be fed, too. However, that doesn't necessarily mean it was b/c you ignored her. Some people can't get enough attention. Maybe you can enlighten us a little more about your situation.

I told a little above to Mach1.

I am not sure how much more to add. As always you are astute. I am not suggesting that my withdrawal is why she went whole hog with the singing app. She may have found it even if I was attentive and still become addicted to it and the "high" that it gives her. What I was really getting at is that I do have a fear that detaching may not work in my case because I was so distant before BD day. That is why I suggest the only real dose of reality I can give her is to file for D.

Otherwise she will continue to cake eat all day long, making no real effort to move forward on her exit strategy NOR on trying to improve the MR. That is unacceptable to me. Status quo is not an option I am willing to live with long term. I am more than happy to let her try to figure her stuff out, but it can't go on indefinitely. Any suggestions on how long I should give her? 1 year is what a lot of the marriage fix experts suggest, (some say at least a year). But I am open to other suggestions.

[Mach1]

I guess I thought that is how I showed her I loved her. I think she perceived it as me loving her. She goes back to the times that I rescued her and says "you were awesome". But now I see looking back why this wasn't healthy. Support is one thing. Taking over and not letting her face her failures just made her see me not as a mate, but a mercenary.

I don't necessarily think she wanted a father figure consciously. I think her subconscious was looking for one since she missed that for the entirety of her life.

I'm gonna sum up my thoughts on these two together...

You probably were awesome TO her....but maybe not awesome FOR her..

Mostly it was about YOUR plan to fix HER problems..

At first, it's awesome to not have to deal with stuff, then it becomes mindless for them. After a while, it can be viewed as controlling and manipulative (because the end result seems selfish to them ).

Essentially, what starts innocently, ends with feelings of depleted self-worth, and questioning the ability to make even the easiest of decisions.

I'm fairly sure that would never be your intention...just a glimpse toward the other side...

Happy, healthy marriage, no question. I am willing to give up all else except my faith in God and His Son for that.

Would you walk through hell with gasoline underoos on, if you knew that she would be waiting for you on the other side ?

And the tricky part is...

Would you make that same walk if you didn't know that she would be there ???

My gut tells me I may not have the patience or longsuffering to wait for her. Though she continues to reluctantly lean toward staying and working on the MR, she still has her fantasy of a new life at 50yo. (she turns 50 next month). Having her own place, etc. I think as I've improved things here at home (and they have been 10 times better since BD) she has started let go of that a bit, but changing your mind is hard to do. She isn't quite ready to buckle in for the long haul yet.

Well, she married you, said that she loved you, and promised forever at one time...

And now that is different..

Soooo...

She IS capable of changing her mind...


Step back away from the merry-go-round for a bit, and let this spin before you decide what you can or cannot do...

I had a lot of anger, resentment and bitterness because of the lack of sexual intimacy that started right after the wedding. The only time she really wanted to engage in sex was when she was trying to get pregnant. For the rest of the time I could count on both hands the times she really seemed to be into sex. The rest of the time it was a duty she performed like housework when she agreed to even have it. Eventually I quit trying and withdrew.

So what was going on in your head to cause these feelings ?

It's kinda unfair to lay all of that at her feet.

You cannot hold her accountable for your actions with that...

Dig deeper into the "whys" of your actions....

Agreed, and I am implementing those. As for the book, I can't find the book locally, it isn't available in digital form, and I can't order it because she will be the one to receive the package (she stays at home). I have read everything MWD has put online and I have even watched a lot of her videos. So I am on board with her methods.

Can't ?

Or it's easier to not ?

Fair question there.

If you really wanted it, then there are neighbor addresses, work addresses, friend addresses....

I read my first copy from the Library...

It has only been 2 months. No I am not there. I have given her a year (I haven't told her that). If she isn't 100% committed to the marriage by the BD anniversary date I will file for D.

Please don't timeline this...

Things will move at their own pace.

They will either work out, or they won't...

The only thing that I will say, is that I gave myself 2 years (about a month for every year we were together), before I would allow myself to make an accurate decision on my future.

[SteveLW]

Mach1, you just proved yourself to me. What you described about my fixing/ rescuing and the ultimate results of that are spot on!! on BD she said exactly what you described in almost the exact same terms.

On your question and comments about my resentment at the lack of sex, yes i agree. It was my issue and i didn't handle it well. That's all on me.

[SteveLW]

If she is open to affection, should i initiate? I think she is noticing my not being affectionate.

She started initiating ILYs again today. And gives me a kiss goonight and goodbye in the morning.

[SteveLW]

So I broke a rule this morning. Initiated a R talk with her.

I said that every time she talks about staying she says it makes her sad, but whenever she talks about leaving she is excited and happy. She agreed.

I then said "I think that's your answer."

I know you are all thinking, "WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?!" LOL

Well every time she detects I am pushing her to leave she starts saying all of the reasons she should stay. And even that she wants to stay.

Her response was: "Things are starting to balance out. When I think about staying it doesn't seem so sad. And when I thinking of leaving it doesn't feel so happy."

I kind of blew that off. "Believe nothing she says and only 1/2 of what she does."

I responded with a "Yeah but staying is still framed in terms of level of sadness, and leaving in terms of level of happiness."

I left it at that.

Back to detachment.

[Cadet]

Understand that nothing you say or do is going to speed up or change her crisis.

You can slow it down by not detaching, begging, pleading and bargaining.

That is part of the reason you are given the standard advice.

Stick with this

Back to detachment.