Good point. Yeah that is a harder expectation not to have. Of course the day after BD at my family Christmas Eve get together, she sat with me so close, held my hand and had her arm around me the entire day. It was hard not to think she was having second thoughts about wanting out when she was so clingy like that.
WWs are hard to figure.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hey Steve, I struggled with how to percieve kisses and ILY's (hence the name of my thread). I finally realized it was all just a game to keep me attached so she could stay in control of the situation. Don't get me wrong, I miss those things a lot, but they don't mean what they used to. Lately I've realized that's exactly what this is to her. A game. Throwing me enough crumbs to keep me on my knees picking them up. Detaching is hard...
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
mtb detaching is especially hard for me for reasons previously stated. (I was already detached before BD. She shows signs of wanting things to work. Etc.)
So i struggle with detaching vs showing her affection. It's tough to know which direction is the right direction. Some awesome folks here have said to do what works. I'm trying to figure our what that is.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Here's the thing.......ever since you arrived, you have tried to make your W an exception to the usual ones we read about on the board. You keep trying to find a loophole, and if that doesn't work then you try to find fault or contradiction with some part of DBing. It's okay to a point, when you are asking questions and trying to learn everything here. It's a lot to process in a short time. It's not unusal for newcomers, and most people feel that their situation is unique. However, I am beginning to wonder if you are trying to work with DBing, or fighting against it? Perhaps it is a subconscious act of not accepting the reality of your W, and not accepting what you need to do......IDK. It just appears, to me, that you are struggling so much......b/c you are fighting against the information you're receiving.
Quote:
So i struggle with detaching vs showing her affection. It's tough to know which direction is the right direction. Some awesome folks here have said to do what works. I'm trying to figure our what that is.
Hey, I even have those words in my signature line........but look at the rest of those words. You are struggling with "detaching" period. All newcomers struggle with detachment, but that doesn't mean there is a flaw in the definition of DB detaching. Look back at that post I copied and pasted on detaching. Tell me exactly which point on the page you struggle with, or that you believe "doesn't work" in your situation, or that seems contrary to what you should be doing. If you can tell me, then we can discuss it more, and if you can't.......then you are merely reacting from your emotions!
Your feelings are in charge, ATM. They are dictating what works..........not for her, but for YOU! You struggle with this and that b/c you can't get Steve's feelings out of the way and do what needs to be done. And guess what? It's human. We all have those dang emotions that get in the way and try to dictate our actions. You have to recognize your feelings for what they are, and understand that feelings are not going to desire this tough stuff. Your feelings have clearly been in charge of your actions, and until you decide the information we are giving you is correct and that you need to get with the program......you will continue to look for loopholes and get nowhere.
Something happens when a H learns that his W wants out of the M. He immediately feels more in love with her than ever before, and he desperately wants to show her that deep love. He is scared sh'tless that he's going to lose her, and he starts grabbing at the slightest thing that hints of a possibility of pushing her closer to him. The advice he reads on the board sounds completely opposite from what his feelings are screaming he should do. So, he spins & spins.......trying to find the magic "fix" formula. He will try this way for a day and a half, and if she hasn't come around, then he will try something else for a couple of days.....and then he changes to something else. Instead of making small, consistent changes......he is acting like a raving lunatic.
Steve is the one who wants to initiate affection. It's not her. I mean, if she should initiate a hug or kiss, and you want to respond.......then do it. But, you should not be the one to initiate it. In the previous thread, you told us how she has pulled away and stopped saying ILY. So, it makes me have a little doubt about her initiating affection.
You are the one who is worried about what she'll think if you detach, b/c you see detaching as meaning you are physically away........and that's the fartherest thing your feelings want ATM. We get it. It happens to people who discover their S wants out. But now you've got to take control and stop letting your feelings dictate your actions. You are wasting valuable time by looking for loopholes.
How much of that detaching page have you really digested? Which of the 37 rules do you break the most often? Which can you follow the easiest? Have you written out your goals about the improvements you want to make in yourself, and in your life? If so, can you share with us? What are you seriously doing to GAL (besides joining a gym)? How many days next week have you made plans to leave the house to GAL? What about this weekend? Have you really read all of Divorce Remedy? Have you read all of Cadet's homework he assigns newcomers?
I want to encourage you to take a deep breath and get on board with both feet. Stop trying to merge together bits and pieces of various books/forums to fit what your feelings want to find. It won't work at saving your M. The more sources you seek advice, the more confusing it will become. Every book author, program, church, counselor, organization, friend, and family member, has a viewpoint (usually a different one) in how issues in M should be approached. As someone has already suggested, you need to choose one and get on board all the way. I hope you will choose Divorce Busting, but whatever you choose, just remember one thing. Nobody can give a garantee it will save your M......and that includes Divorce Busting. You could do everything perfectly, but it may not change your W's decision to D.
By the time people find their way to this forum, their M is in serious trouble. Some M's are saved, but most aren't. That is just the stark reality to any material/avice you try to use in saving your troubled MR. I am hoping you will make the wise decision to stick with DB, and really throw yourself into it. I can see the real possibility of you turning things around and not only saving your M.......but having a great one! It will be the hardest thing you have ever done. You have to decide if it's worth it. If it is, then we are here for you.
I've been on the board a long time. I have observed many newcomers and their reactions to their situation.....and to the DB information they receive. The S who wants to save the M, is immediately thrown into a crisis that is more complexed than anything they've experienced. It's complexed b/c of the emotions they experience. I have seen many people leave without ever knowing the ending to their story. I have seen some stick it out, and watched their lives change. Not all M's were saved, but "people" were saved. Steve, I want to see your M saved, but most of all, I want to see you saved and living happily. ((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2, thank you. Your post is dead on. I admit my emotions are ruling me. They are also hinged on her actions and reactions. I'm also questioning everything she says and does as far as her motivations.
I want to embrace DBing. Badly. But I guess fear is holding me back.
As far as your questions, I will go back and answer them. I'm on my phone right now. I appreciate your help and i am willing to do the work. I just need to clear my head and commit. I know that. I need to get past my feelings and do what works.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
sandi2, I will be going back through your post later today. Sorry, just been very busy and haven't had time to get alone time to respond in full.
However, I do have an update. So before my W went to WW mode, she was really into finding us a new house. In fact, her exasperation at her, my daughter and I not being able to agree on houses is what I think partially sent her into WW mode. It was right after she quit spending most of her time looking at houses, and moved on to the singing app, that I started noticing the changes in her.
Anyway, I may have mentioned that I recently got rated top performer at work, and simultaneously got promoted. This resulted in extra bonus money and two big raises back-to-back. I mentioned to my wife that we could now afford some of the houses that were in our "too expensive" category.
The result is that she started looking for houses again. IN fact, the 3 of us went to two open houses yesterday. Obviously I am trying to stay even keeled related to this. And I will be glad to take feedback on what you think this might mean.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
The result is that she started looking for houses again. IN fact, the 3 of us went to two open houses yesterday. Obviously I am trying to stay even keeled related to this. And I will be glad to take feedback on what you think this might mean.
Soooooo after all of us telling you that you need to detach, you tell your W that you're getting a raise and hey, let's go look at new houses! You don't really think that is detachment do you?
Let me tell you a little story about my brother. His W kept telling him that they needed a giant mansion instead of the modest 3/2/2 they were living in (and that was easily affordable). So he finally broke down and they bought this huge house together. 6 months later she BD'd him. She disclosed that she had been in an A for most of their M. He asked her why in the world she wanted to buy the new house if she was planning to D, her answer was that she thought that having the house she wanted might change things, but it didn't. So now he's stuck in that house in a depressed housing market living paycheck-to-paycheck. One kid is grown and moved out and the other is almost there. So it's just him in this gigantic two story house that he can't really afford.
Your W says she wants a new house? You tell her that FIRST the M needs to be repaired and you need assurances she is in it for the long haul, THEN you will consider looking at houses.
