V, I'm not rejecting overtures, but if there is to be a new R there needs to a proper Reconciliation.
My fear is of slipping into old patterns without Reconciliation.
All this niceness is confusing and suspicious.
She is full of stories now. About work, carpool etc. I validate a lot.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
Reconciliation to me has to pull from sandis2 list. Maybe not all of these things but I believe that without remorse and an unconditional commitment to divorce the past and any blame there is never any real reconciliation.
Without genuine Reconciliation, the MR is doomed as both risk slipping into past patterns and instead of moving forward we are just prolonging the next BD.
What are our personal patterns? Well just a general atmosphere of inconsideration and contentiousness, with each other's needs, not being met. Passive Aggressiveness and general holding on to the past. Things seeming good (by me) only to be sideswiped with a BD every few years.
This is oversimplified but you should get the jest.
The list:
Quote:
This list has some of the things the WW will need to do in order to reconcile, honestly and completely, with her H. If you see something that needs to be added, feel free.
These are in no special order.
1). Consequences! And taking a hit with hard, maybe a painful loss of some kind. 2). Realizing the connection between her decisions with the consequences/loss. 3). Accepting responsibility for her decisions...and for every loss, and every hurt she caused those she loves and who loves her. 4). Accepting and dealing with the consequences, without blaming anyone but herself. 5). Making a conscious choice to end her wayward direction and turn around. 6). Seeking guidance and/or spiritual counsel to guide her in how to cleanse her heart of the wrong attitudes, selfcenterness, resentment, rebellion.......whatever she carries that is unhealthy. 7). To be remorseful. If necessary, even seek spiritual help, pray, whatever......to feel remorse for the destruction her decisions and feelings has caused her H. She has to feel true remorse in order to emotionally reconcile and heal properly. 8). To completely forgive her H for everything in the past. To release the blame,anger, and hurt she held throughout their M. 9). To be wiling to do whatever it takes for the MR to heal. 10). To agree and cooperate with the H's choice of transparency plan (accountability), sending a NC letter, having any medical tests, ending any friendships out of his request, (and of course, any contact with OM), place of employment, giving him requested information, attending MC, or anything else the H may request in order to ensure the success of their reconciliation, and the safety of the MR. 11). Accept/agree, without resentment, that she is in no position to give her H any "conditions" to her going back into the MR. And, to accept without resentment, that the greatest level of work in piecing the M back together, must come from her. 12). To accept that it will take time for her healthy emotions to be restored. To realize and accept she cannot measure the success of their progress by her feelings. 13). To be informed, and accept, that she must go through withdrawals from her AP, and could experience depression. She needs to understand this is normal, and not a sign that she will have never have feelings for H. 13). And the hardest one of all.........learn to forgive herself.
Keep in mind, these things will not all come about at one time. Neither will she be able to know without someone guiding her. It is really important she has help or coaching from an unbiased source who is pro-marriage and is familiar with piecing after an affair.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
I wish I had some advice for you but I don’t as I feel as if I am in the same place. W has ended A and D and is acting nicer sometimes but there is no remorse. We are roommates and coparerents. Re reading sandi’s comments about R was amazing. She hasn’t really done any of those things. I don’t know what to do from here but am searching for similar threads for some insight. Thank you for sharing.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I wish I had some advice for you but I don’t as I feel as if I am in the same place. W has ended A and D and is acting nicer sometimes but there is no remorse. We are roommates and coparerents. Re reading sandi’s comments about R was amazing. She hasn’t really done any of those things. I don’t know what to do from here but am searching for similar threads for some insight. Thank you for sharing.
I think sandi would tell you (don't want to speak for her but) that until she does this hard work she may be just loooking for Plan A or her next OM. WWs rarely just give up their conquest completely until they hit the remorse stage. Some do that before D, some during D, some after D (and sometimes many years after D). They almost all end up there eventually, but sometimes too late for them. Read MWD's first chapter of DB. You will read of a couple of WSs/WASs that had regrets, big regrets, maybe too late.
I too am in that boat. W is showing positive changes, but I can't trust it because I haven't seen sandi's list in action yet. (And sandi herself told me flat out that my WW is still looking for Plan A.)
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Well, there is some comfort in knowing that I am not alone.
I believe this opportunity to reconcile all begins when WW WAW suffers a loss. I may be wrong but as this is my 2nd go round I can tell you without some sort of reconciliation you better keep your helmet on, because you'll be back.
As has been discussed, the LBH doesn't get to choose this loss and I would also say that if he intentionally facilitates it, it better seem organic or it will not be genuine. IMHO
My fear remains that the longer this dynamic of being " CoParenting Roommates" with possible occasional fringe benefits goes on and W displays respect etc, then the higher the probability that we slip back to business as usual without closure, without reconciliation.
These things take time. I get it. But isn't it possible that it never happens? Then what? How long can one cohabitate with 180 or rules or LRT without some movement on her side?
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
Well, there is some comfort in knowing that I am not alone.
I believe this opportunity to reconcile all begins when WW WAW suffers a loss. I may be wrong but as this is my 2nd go round I can tell you without some sort of reconciliation you better keep your helmet on, because you'll be back.
As has been discussed, the LBH doesn't get to choose this loss and I would also say that if he intentionally facilitates it, it better seem organic or it will not be genuine. IMHO
My fear remains that the longer this dynamic of being " CoParenting Roommates" with possible occasional fringe benefits goes on and W displays respect etc, then the higher the probability that we slip back to business as usual without closure, without reconciliation.
These things take time. I get it. But isn't it possible that it never happens? Then what? How long can one cohabitate with 180 or rules or LRT without some movement on her side?
Great question and one I struggle with. Which is why I put a one year limit on it. However, here is the problem. The WW spouse may want the LBH to be the one to do the work. I do not think my wife wants to deal with it. Sometimes I think her current ploy is to wait me out until I grow tired of the sitch and pull the plug myself. Then she gets out of the guilt of having made the choice and can tell everyone "well he was the one that filed!"
The only thing she didn't like was when I told her that if I did file it would be on grounds of infidelity. Of course, there has been no physical infidelity but unfaithfulness is unfaithfulness.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
As long as you stand for M. As long as you want and need to do it.
I always say it is the LBS that says "done" and often even if a wayward (not a WAS) says can I return? Then the LBS has moved forward become someone only a fool would leave, whilst the wayward goes backwards.
My thoughts
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Well after a decade of living like roommates, waiting for a show of remorse waiting for reconciliation, doesn't sound like a M.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
It is often that I feel like I am in the proverbial "Dog House" and my offense? Making W express hear honest feelings instead of the usual passive-aggressive coping mechanism.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
