A familiar story with questions. III

[RR17]

Wow! I get so excited when I see that you have responded. I mean that. You are a true gift to this group, sandi.
I have read and reread your response and I agree with much of it. I realize that you hear these stories from one side and sometimes timing and eloquence are lacking from my explanation.

I suspect you got too close to discovering the truth behind her mask of niceness, politeness, and living together so civility. I am referring to how you noticed her quickly concealing her computer activity. But you alerted her when you questioned her about it. So, in her particular fashion......how does she throw RR17 off track and distract him, causing him to ask all the same old questions.....time and time again? So, She turns up her niceness a degree..........even calls him to compliment him about his oatmeal! What will RR17 do? Will he start with the questions about why she persists at being so nice? How long will he remain puzzled by such polite and, dare we say.....thoughtful behavior of his W? smirk

I understand the optic of this and the event with the computer was and still is suspicious to me. My intention is to share my take and not to defend the W. It is only to add my inside experience. In 20+ years W has never been capable of such a deceptive vale. She eased back into nice mode after that confrontation and defensive deflection.
W is prideful and not very good at playing a deceptive part and not for as long as it has continued. IMO I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I expect the niceness is the product of removed pressure and possibly in response to my changes.
I realized what was once a consensual dynamic of my controlling behavior had become excessive and had become a large part of my contribution to the problems with the M.

Think about it. What have you repeated to ponder over, ever since you joined the board. You just could not figure out why she would be so darn nice, if she was a WW......like previously. You see, she never changed from being wayward......she simply chaged her tactics. The MR never reconciled......It just stayed in limbo. She never showed remorse or put effort toward having a better and more intimate M, did she? In fact, not only were you just roommates......but then she wanted separate bedrooms. Am I correct? If not, please correct me.

You are correct. Though she did show some remorse only years later and I have figured that again it is a product of her stubborn pride and shame. As for the niceness, this still confuses me. It was not the case when I discovered the EA 4 years ago. The level of respect and consideration is beyond what I believe she is capable of faking. IDK

She has repeatily said she was leaving (or ending the M) at the end of this school term, right? But in the meantime, you have not seen her act in the same way she did previously, when she was in an A. Are you referring to the niceness and how well you have gotten along? If so, I want to make a comment or ask something. During this time of "getting along", you were letting her sort of do her thing, right? I mean, she'd come home from work and talk about her day.....even repeating the same office stories, while you just listened and validated. Is that correct? (At the time you mentioned it, I didn't know what you meant when you said she was repeating the same stuff....but the lightbulb has come on, at least I think I know what it means).

You are correct. As for letting her do her own thing, she didn't spend a lot of time unaccounted for, if that is what you mean. As outlined in the rules, I simply reserved any opinion or judgment.
I nonchalantly asked her just tonight about repeating stories. I would have expected a defensive answer if there was something behind it. She did not get defensive. Again I am not defending, just giving my take.

You once said you were always the performer and she was the audience. After you thought the A fizzled and you lived in roommate status.........she became the performer and RR17 was her audience. And, performing is how she has manipulated........or perhaps I should say, maintained this condition of the MR. She has it exactly the way she intends it. She holds you at bay, and keeps you thrown off track by being nice, polite, even showing a degree of thoughtfulness. Surely, a wife that was wayward would not be so nice! At least, that has basically been the theme of all your posts since day one.

Yes and no. True there have been changes, but not really keeping me at bay. I have been at bay because I have detached and stopped pursuing. She needed some autonomy and so did I. She regained much of the independence that she had lost in the M and raising children. Not Girls gone Wild independence but in what has appeared to be a healthy way. I supported it. She seemed happier and again I attributed some of the change in behavior to it.

All these years you have waited around for her to show you......something. Remorse, interest, effort, affection...........but it wasn't there. She has steadily gotten farther away (no kisses, no sex, no accountability) while you remained in a state of confusion over her nice-neighbor behavior. You have even referred to it as respectful behavior. Are you following what I am saying so far? She has no desire, no attraction, and no intentions of working on this MR. She holds you at arms length, keeping you in this friend-zone......if it's that much, and then you don't make things too hard on her....by pressing her or requiring certain things of her........and she can do whatever she wishes, without you getting any closer and/or wiser. You got a little suspicious and asked her why she closed her computer so quickly, so she had to up the niceness....to throw you off the scent.

There has been sex. I have limited initiating because I saw it as pursuing sometimes, not always, a point of contention. She once tried to stop it because I had explained the mixed signals. It resumed because I explain that sex didn't add to the confusion and I asked without expectation or any pressure.
I will say that years ago, during the initial A, sex was different. She was living in a fantasy and it came out in bed. I noticed it at the time. It has not been like that in recent times.

Call me crazy, but as long as you aren't causing any waves......she's reasonably contented to live under the same roof with you. But she still has her fantasy, and she probably has OM, too.

Well, You got me thinking and coupled with the commuter incident I confronted her tonight. I wasn't going to sleep if I hadn't.
I picked my words carefully and even stated that if she said yes, that I wasn't going to ask her to stop. Another A is a deal breaker for me.
She denied it. After a typical defensive response and me reminding her that for the first 16 years I never had any suspicions, but that for 4 years I have been haunted by the threat and that it wasn't my fault what so ever.
She got quiet and sad, very sad and apologized for her part. She assured me that there wasn't anybody and that she hadn't taken the appropriate steps to repair my trust. She was very upset. It all seemed genuine. We hugged. We went to our separate bedrooms.

Who knows? But I don't believe she could keep up a charade for very long. It's just not her way. At least I don't believe so.

Thanks again Sandi for taking the time to read and understand and respond to my sitch.

[RR17]

This morning she continued the solemness. Perhaps it is too soon to say, but this may be the loss she needed to experience.

I didn't respond to this overling sadness. I made coffee and kept to my self.

[SteveLW]

Do you regret confronting her? I always regret starting a R discussion. I try to remember that regret before starting one. Abd they rarely amount to anything anyway.

I highly doubt your W would just confess to your inquiry. I know you want to believe she is genuine. I know you think she couldn't hide it. But they can and do. I have a friend that cheated on her husband about 10 years ago. She said if a woman wants to cheat she'll find a way. She said you wouldn't believe the lengths abd depths of deceit she'd go to in order to get her fix.

Again, not suggesting she is involved with anyone but I would never rule out three possibility.

[RR17]

Do you regret confronting her? I always regret starting a R discussion. I try to remember that regret before starting one. Abd they rarely amount to anything anyway.

I hear ya, Steve. Usually, I regret starting the big R. Not this time. Not one bit. And yes I did contemplate it before I decided to jump in.

I highly doubt your W would just confess to your inquiry. I know you want to believe she is genuine. I know you think she couldn't hide it. But they can and do. I have a friend that cheated on her husband about 10 years ago. She said if a woman wants to cheat she'll find a way. She said you wouldn't believe the lengths abd depths of deceit she'd go to in order to get her fix.

Well Ws do confess. And No I don't want to believe her. I want the truth. I don't want her to cheat, but I want the truth more than I want her to not cheat.

Are Ws capable of lying? Sure
Do they always lie? No

I tend to believe based on my skeptical mind and 20 years of experience with this person, that she is not. I can not swear it and yes some doubt exists but I lean toward she is telling the truth. I am aware I could be wrong.

Yes, the more they get caught, the more crafty they can become. I am well aware. The more comfortable they can become with lying. I get it.

I saw a genuine remorse, a sadness that I don't often see from my stubborn prideful W.
I will probably never fully rule out the possibility.

[sandi2]

Good grief.......I never dreamed you would confront her last night! Don't you know you do nothing more than set off bells and sirens?

FWIW, never confront when you have no proof........or no plan of action.

If your gut says there is nothing going on, then go rest in peace. But for gosh sakes, stop harping about how her nice behavior messes with your head. If you feel it comes from her having no pressure, you're probably right.

[RR17]

I know. I know. It started eating at me and I didn't care. I knew that if I let it ride, it would cause me to lose sleep and I wouldn't be able to resist snooping.

[RR17]

I confronted W for my piece of mind. I knew that if I tucked it away I would be driven to snoop and I don't want that.

If she has something to hide it will reveal its self eventually, right?

In the meantime, my objectives will be much less tainted by any obsessive suspicions. At least for awhile.

When she was in the confirmed EA, she showed several changes that don't currently exist. In anticipation of meeting up with her OM. She was working out and buying new clothes etc. That is not currently going on. She is not slick enough to hide something like that, she would just excuss that change of behavior as she wanted to feel good about her self or it's Spring and Summers around the corner etc.

[RR17]

W and I are not really speaking. She mentioned Fri dinner plans and when the time came she wanted to weasel out. This pissed me off and I let it show.
She said she was sorry. Something she wasn't capable of saying a few years ago. I responded with "Are you really?"

Anyway, several things that were said over the last several days keep playing over in my head (ruminating).

[Vanilla]

I am not surprised she isn't talking.

I don't think I would either, if everything I say gets chewed over questioned and spat out.

V

[RR17]

Good point.

When you aren't allowed to show your honest feeling, they spill out from time to time.