Been doing a lot of thinking last 24. Even if she came back, crawling, on hands and knees, offered me the world... doesn't matter when, tomorrow, next month, next year... I still don't see how it is possible i could ever, ever trust her. I mean, i could insist on and/or she could offer to submit to a lengthy laundry list of transparency and commitment steps but, in the end, if she wanted to cheat she could find a way to cheat. I would never be able to follow her around or monitor her 24/7... nor would i even want to. What a horrible relationship that would be!
I mean, for someone who has been betrayed multiple times (okay, so, one continuous time, but multiple lies), how do you ever get over that? How do you ever trust that person again? I just don't see how it would be possible. You would always have doubts. At least i think i would. And that would end up poisoning the relationship. I don't see how any amount of "grounding" or confidence or whatever on the LBS's part would help. It's simply a matter of common sense and self preservation.
It's like the indian fable of the rattlesnake that bites the boy after the boy picks it up to help it: "You knew what i was when you picked me up."
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
and I guess there's also the issue of future "normal" domestic arguments, as in how will they escalate (for no apparent, apart from subconscious) reasons? but that of course is a minor aspect I guess you'll have to (once again) go with your gut feeling on all of this all the best
Me 55, W 50 D 8 M 20 T 27 MIL w/ us BD 01/02/17 workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA) OM senior manager, long term W, child 14 now: limbo (my choice)
"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
Good morning, hoosjim... I wanted to point something out to you regarding my timeline... The suicide threat episode led to another false start... It was another 9 months before we truly separated... Where H finally said, ENOUGH... that's when it got real... That's when I had to tell family and friends that we were separated... That's when I could no longer just walk into our marital home... I had limited interactions with BBF after suicide episode... But after the final BD, I pretty much cut her out completely...
Do you know if your W is still in constant contact with her BFF?
Do you know if your W is still in constant contact with her BFF?
Since BD on Saturday (and who dropped the bomb, there, me or her? Kinda think mine was the bigger one...) she has been in near constant contact, per the phone and text records. (It helps keeps me grounded and resolute to check) Don't know about today (I just checked after you asked) but, then again, she went into work so she could be and probably is talking to her via her work phone... just like she did talk and for all I know still is talking to OM.
Was kind of funny. Last night, she texted me again about the letter (with yet another apology). So I responded-- "i don't want to talk and i don't want to read the letter. I want limited to no communication with you right now, and Jessica [my IC and also her IC and, previously, our MC] agreed this was a good idea."
She responded: "OK, Jessica told me she was going to encourage you to read it but if you don't want to i will keep it. We will need to talk about Easter, we told the kids we were going to see S19 for brunch and Church. I am so, so sorry. I miss you."
So i got sucked in a bit: "Jessica must've forgotten that i said i wasn't looking for marriage counseling right now..." [and im going to interject here for the thread that it now occurs to me that i may actually have to find a different IC, as much as a like and connect with the current one] "... I already talked to S19 when i saw him on Sunday."
And here, panic must have set in. Immediately: "About what did you talk to S19" (and her grammar is almost never so good... preposition at the beginning of the sentence and everything. Impressive.) This was followed, according to the phone logs, by two immediate texts to bff, one of which was an image which i assume to be a screenshot of my text. Then she texted me "???". Followed by "??" I let her stew for a few more minutes cause i knew what she was thinking, didn't really care, and was in a bit of a nasty mood, TBH. During that gap, she called bff for a 7 minute chat.
After about a 15 minute pause, i text back "Easter. And going down there for brunch and church." and then "Said i wouldn't be going."
Her: "Im sorry. i hate that that there is all of this pain because of me. I never wanted anyone to get hurt. I know i screwed up so, so bad and i am so, so sorry."
Me(Going too far): "Look, you can't un-messy this situation It is what it is. This is what infidelity does. It's not sunshine and puppy dogs and unicorns and happy endings. It's lies and deceit and guilt and pain and broken homes and divorce. That's the reality. It's impossible to shield the kids from that."
Her: "I'm sorry. I'm just dying on the inside that i have hurt you and everyone else." Then: "Divorce? What are you talking about? I don't want that! What do you mean? And what about S19 on Sunday?" [i think maybe our texts crossed in cyberspace]
This was dumb to even engage and it's spiraling so i call her. Her: "Jim?" Me: "Look, i don't want to talk right now, and Jessica agreed its not a good idea and said limit it to texts. Texting doesn't seem like a great idea either cause we're going around in circles so lets just shut it down. It's not going to lead anywhere good. I told S19 I'm not coming on Sunday but that you and S18 were, so if you change that you need to tell him. That's it. At some point soon we're going to have to tell them something more."
Her, crying: "Jim, I'm scared...and I'm..." Me: "Goodbye." (more crying as im hanging up.)
Wanted to relay that because i didn't want to make a separate post and thought it germane. Also it segued well from the "is she contacting bff" question. On that point, FWIW, she did not contact bff at all, either by phone or by text.
Sorry for my weakness, Sensei, please forgive me.
after our final text and phone exchange" Thanks!
Edit - Not sure that I added this edit in the right place - Cadet
Last edited by Cadet; 03/27/1805:35 AM. Reason: edit
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
I will warn you, crossing the line to telling the kids is potentially, in your (and also in my) sitch a bridge too far. I would caution you to be sure of what you want (D) before you cross that line.
Every time I discussed telling my daughter about our impending D, W started to back down from her D fantasy. I know your W is saying she doesn't want D, but that might be her ploy to delay the inevitable (telling the kids).
But in general I think you handled the above pretty well. Complete no contact is very very difficult. Especially when you have kids. So the fact that you kept it matter of fact, logistical (Easter brunch discussion) and didn't get sucked into reacting to her emotions was well played. Maybe the SMEs will see it differently but that post above is about as well handled as could be, with the exception of checking her phone records. You need to try to stop doing that because true detachment can't occur with that behavior.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I agree with the others. You handled that fine. She's thinking, wow Jim is really pissed this time, I'm really going to have to make thus right. But she still was not at all thinking D or at least did not want to allow herself to think it would go that far. Then you said it and her heart dropped yet another level to, OMG I really may be headed to divorce here. She's now n full out panick. Can you see how had you gone back home it would all have lowered? I know you were not considering that but this all shows how this has to happen to her. This all need to be real to her.
Finally again DO NIT TELL THE KIDS ABOUT THE AFAIR. Let's be honest her Jim, deep down you still hope and want thus to work out. I know it and you know it. You gave all of these valid concerns but you still have hope. There is no coming back from kids knowing mom (or dad) cheated. Plus it's out of their control. Please don't tell them. Use it to scare her if you will but don't saddle them with it.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
To be clear, my comments above about telling the kids were more about the D. I would never tell them about the affair. Kids aren't dumb. They know who is at fault in a D.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
i think you handled it well... i relate so much to your wife... she is thinking ahead to Easter... i did something similar... i thought we could smooth things over enough to go ahead with the dinner party my husband and i were going host in a few days... seriously! i found out later that my husband canceled it the day of his BD... when i look back, i do remember thinking we could just get passed this and carry on... i figured he would be mad for a while but we could just keep going on without too much mess... i didn't get it...
