Sandi: I do see myself on that list. I don't disagree on the fact the things on the list aren't valid. But could the ultimate reason be the fantasy that the OP would fulfill all their dreams? Of course there is the reason to start dreaming about something else. And your list is more about that I think. Just an opinion. Not trying to know better or anything...
This is not about WW's or WAW's. The list has nothing to do with fantasies, an affair, or OM. Scratch that from your brain just for a minute. These are not excuses to find someone better. I don't want the discussion to go that direction. This is not about the W or her behavior. I am talking about the actions H's take that loses his W's attraction and respect. Just b/c he treats her in one of these ways does not mean she is going to run out and find another man! Some women may get a D and some may choose to live with it.
Someone asked me how H's lose respect, and my goal was to list some of those ways. Whether it seems fair or not, is a matter of opinion. Whether it is seen as a list of standards, excuses, or whatever........these are ways that harm a woman's respect for her H. How she chooses to respond is another subject.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
* The H does most of the housework. (The following was taken from another source): "A common mistake that modern men make in marriages is to copy the fictional relationships they see on TV drama shows or sitcoms, follow the advice of politically correct TV talk show hosts and believe the advice from random articles online that are not written by male relationship experts who are actually in a successful, happy relationship with a woman".
A husband might do NONE of the housework and that could be a cause too.
In the end LOVE IS A CHOICE.
Relationships are 50/50 and if both sides do not choose LOVE then the relationship is in trouble.
So to me many times the end of relationships are due to the fact that one side chooses it, and yes there may have been transgressions by the other side but they could have won the lottery and stood on there head and nothing would have helped.
So the bottom line is how do you keep choosing to love?
After putting my head in to all this marriage/relationship/divorce info that is out there, I would ask how do you get someone to realize that love is a choice. Mainly people seem to think that love is a feeling and either it is there or it isn't. And it should be like it was in the beginning. The butterflies in stomach etc...
Me:39 W:36 S:12 D:9 T:14 M:11 Separation:sep. 1 2017 D filed oct. 2017 D finalized july 2018 OM confirmed feb 2018 D finalized July 2018
The fact is this. You have to be in pain before you can learn.
sandi2, What would you say about my sitch. WW affair partner is a old high school boyfriend that her family does not like due to things that happened in high school. My WW is preparing to file and has rented an apartment. I am sure you would describe me as a nice guy and I know that there is some truth to that. With my limited time to effect some change I am looking for advice on how to proceed. we have decided on how we are splitting marital property including horses and I have agreed to allow her to leave the trailer and her horse at the MR home with her paying a boarding /storage fee. Really been thinking that I should make her find someplace else for these items, but for now I need the trailer and truck when I want to ride. your advice would be welcome. You can get all my sitch on the newcomer forum http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...105#Post2782105
---------------- Me-53 W-50 T-16 M-13 Bomb drop 1-16-18 Discovered EA 1-23-18 Discovered PA 2-2-18 Still involved with OM WW moved out 3-29-18
Hi Sandi2, I've been pouring through your threads and have some questions. We have blended financials, and WW is looking to start a new business. One of your suggestions is to basically split finances to put her on her own - remove the 'safety net' as it were. Though I understand your point (if you want out, here's what it looks like), but at the same time, because of the particular point in time of financial stress as it is (her stress), I fear coming across as bullying financially.
During one of our bigger fights, I made the mistake of telling her something to the effect of 'good luck sustaining your lifestyle the OM'. She has brought up many times since how much that hurt her and how she now questions whether she's staying around for the wrong reasons (financial) instead of the right ones (love/commitment).
Hi Sandi2, I've been pouring through your threads and have some questions. We have blended financials, and WW is looking to start a new business. One of your suggestions is to basically split finances to put her on her own - remove the 'safety net' as it were. Though I understand your point (if you want out, here's what it looks like), but at the same time, because of the particular point in time of financial stress as it is (her stress), I fear coming across as bullying financially.
During one of our bigger fights, I made the mistake of telling her something to the effect of 'good luck sustaining your lifestyle the OM'. She has brought up many times since how much that hurt her and how she now questions whether she's staying around for the wrong reasons (financial) instead of the right ones (love/commitment).
Would love to get your thoughts.
anon, one of the things I learned early in my sitch, which doesn't sound to unlike yours (by the way your initial post was blank, so you might want to go back to your thread and give more details), is that WWs are in full rebellion against the MR. Therefore, they will look for reasons they shouldn't stay.
My W also made the same statement early on after BD. She was complimenting me on being an excellent provider. And that she knew her plan of getting a job, moving out, and getting a D would be a major step down financially. But that "she didn't want to stay for the wrong reasons".
This is rebellion! People stay married for all kinds of reasons, especially through the rough times. Sometimes it is because they are in a good place financial. Or they are comfortable. Or they are just too lazy to make a change. WWs rebel against these reasons. They talk themselves out of these reasons. So they say things like "yes I am taken care of financially, but that is not the right reason to stay married".
This is why reason and logic do not work with WWs. They are justifying their decision to cheat, or leave, or go GGW, or a combination of the three. All other logic, "but it will hard on the kids!", "It will hurt financially", "We'll have to give up the house we both love!", "The Church will look down on us!", "What about our friends?", fall on deaf ears.
That is what Sandi's "remove the safety net" is all about. Saying and thinking "I don't need financial security" and actually living without it are two different animals. Sandi's rules are all about getting the WW to wake up to the reality of her choices. To help blow away the fantasy fog she is in!
Go back and read my past posts where I describe what started to shake my W from her fantasy fog. Reality is the only thing that can break that, and sometimes even reality doesn't work.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hi, I saw where your initial thread did not show up on your thread. There have been a few other posters having the same problem lately. Keep trying, b/c we need to know your situation.
Taken from your thread:
Quote:
The wayward wife thread has been super insightful, and actually is quite applicable. Reading through those items though, they're rough.
"Immediately separate the sleeping arrangements" One of my short-term actionable goals to view if the marriage is progressing is that we go to bed together twice a week.
I see the point of showing the WW what losing the H looks like, but what's the consensus when that is simultaneously something that is viewed as progress in the marriage restoration? As I write this, I feel like maybe it's only restoration if the A has stopped?
If you have a wayward W, more than likely she will try to have the best of both worlds, which is her affair and the benefits she gets from being legally M with you. She doesn't want to be your W, but she wants the nice things that come with the territory. We call it eating cake.
Every situation is a little different, but most WW's have a lot in common.......and that's their mindset. The WW threads were written to share a little of what I've experienced and learned.
I have to agree that as long as the W is in an A, the MR will not be restored. How could it? Certain aspects of the M may appear to improve......as long as the WW is getting everything she wants, but her feelings for the H will not genuinely change if she has OM. If you read the first WW thread, you saw me explain how a W's loving feelings for her H is tied to her level of respect for him. Having an A is the epitome of disrespect. In most cases, that disrespect did not come overnight. It took time.
Gaining her respect for you as a man and as her H should be the goal, IMHO. The decions and actions you choose must be seen in a light of respect by her. Any other efforts to reconcile seem to be a waste of time, IMHO. At best, you would be like roommates in a sexless relationship. Just b/c a woman stays in the M, doesn't mean she loves her H......and it doesn't mean the M is restored. That is one reason I try to encourage H's to start with the root problem......which is her loss of attraction.....which was brought about through loss of respect.....which came from resentment, unmet emotional needs, etc. Her negative feelings eventually breeds open rebellion (i.e. an affair).
It's no secret that men and women think differently. Having lots of sex during a time that you know your W has OM.......is not a sign things are getting better in your MR. Without reading your story, I really can't respond much more than that, as to your statement, "One of my short-term actionable goals to view if the marriage is progressing is that we go to bed together twice a week". What is the point in twice a week? Are you trying to warm her up to gradually get to a full week? It doesn't work that way with a wayward and where there's an affair.
A wife's level of respect affects her attraction button, which affects her level of sexual desire. If she has additional health issues......that can lower her sex drive even more.
Separation of sleeping arrangements is not an absolute must in DBing. It depends upon whether or not she knows that you are aware of her affair, and how unruly she has become, etc. But if your W is pushing for you to sleep elsewhere, then my suggestion is that you should remain in the marital bedroom and let the one who wants out of the MR sleep elsewhere. I am so sick of seeing H's get push down into their basements and alienated from their family! There should be no question who the cheater, liar, deceiver, and betrayer is in the sitch. As the head of the home, it is important that the man remains in the marital bedroom, and maintain his position as the leader of the household, IMHO. Bottom line here is that every person makes their own decisions for what they believe is best in their situation. I'm not going to tell any man to get into a physical altercation just to stay in the MBR. That's pretty much defeating the original purpose, if the cops carry him to jail.
Quote:
One of your suggestions is to basically split finances to put her on her own - remove the 'safety net' as it were. Though I understand your point (if you want out, here's what it looks like), but at the same time, because of the particular point in time of financial stress as it is (her stress), I fear coming across as bullying financially.
I tell the LBS to protect themselves. I have seen WW's completely wipe out every cent in the H's bank account, max out the CC's, etc........rather than paying their bills. She'll lie to his face and say she had to buy food or kids clothes or whatever.......and she's taking his money and spending it on selfish things. He cannot afford to trust a wayward W. Just b/c he wants a loving, trustworthy MR......and just b/c she once was honest..........does not make her a woman he can trust now. Let it be a warning. Him putting more trust in her........does not make her trustworthy. Cheaters lie. They cannot be trusted with your money.
Do not financially enable her wayward lifestyle. Since I don't know about your particular sitch, I can't say much more. Why would you feel like a financial bully if you were protecting your money and the welfare of the family? If she wants out of the M, it's not your responsibility to figure out how she'll make financially. That's on her.
Quote:
During one of our bigger fights, I made the mistake of telling her something to the effect of 'good luck sustaining your lifestyle the OM'. She has brought up many times since how much that hurt her and how she now questions whether she's staying around for the wrong reasons (financial) instead of the right ones (love/commitment).
There are different cards of manipulation the WW will play. The two most common cards are the guilt card and the control card. She will either try to make you feel so guilty that you will cave to what she wants, or she'll accuse you of trying to control her......pushing you into relenting for whatever she wants. Without even reading your story, I can tell she is playing those two cards with you.
She has brought up several times how much that has hurt her, huh? Do you see the irony in it? How does she think her affair makes you feel? The WW is motivated by selfishness. Never doubt for a second that she is not contemplating what benefits her more.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
