Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up

[betheoa]

Hi Sandi and Others,

Thanks sandy about your words, i needed it.

I have spend last days reading a lot about others LBS stories.

Now i have opportunity to writhe about things around me.
There was several days, i have being at home with kids (it is holy days and work off days). Some of the days WW was at work.
There was silents between WW and OM, until day before yesterday, when she write to him about his job celebration days (she was very polite, but not so flirty, he respond in very business meaner), yesterday he write to her about holly days, and she respond today again in very polite manner), he asked if she can take him for hair cut on Wednesday, she said ok, in not so much polite manner. Normally she will show so much happiness to see him, this time she was short), i am not going about look into it so much but there is two possible reason, first - she will try to slow the communication, second - last time when they go on date to eat cake (this day i stayed out of home ) at the evening they had chat, friendly, flirty ....but in the end when my WW said about him to have wonderfully, pleasant, lovely........night and dreams, he respond to her short and miss-wire her name with other family name. That spice some reality in my WW fog, about that, Maybe the OM has some other old/young ladies to chat/coffee/and being affectionate -- That was just to vent, it is not have nothing to do with my plan.

About my interaction with my WW. I keep to not be affectionate a all, and pay very less attention. Yes i handled, and did not move back slide about it. My wife tried to have chatty with me, i answered short or lough a bit, but in general did my things on PC.

She asked to help her cooking, i did it, but not overly enthusiastic at all. I was not sad or passive aggressive, just have done what need to be done than come back and do what i am doing on PC.

She tried to ask me to do some thing for her (bring for her something, give water ...) let say i did her request 1 from 4 request, when it is on my way, she noted this.

All days i avoided her, it was like she followed me. One evening, all they she was propose to go on shopping or else, just outside the house, i did not say nothing because it was not right request, it was just she talking ( in the past i will go where she want just at her eye glimpse), not it is different story . So then she asked do you want go out, in front of the block, i said fine. There was some neighbors there, so we had not so bed time. It was funny, WW was in cone with one woman, from other side i was doing some garden work and chat with other woman, this other woman is become little flirty with me, and start laughing in our convo, my wife noticed and come around to see what happened (and touch me, on the shoulder, and other famine things to show them that i am hers:)) - This is just situation, i do not reed on it.

More interesting situation was yesterday:
Yesterday she wonted to go with the kids to my father, this is out of norm, because 5 years ago when, i confessed to her about my affair, she called my father to talk with him about what to do, he was advising her to work thing out with me (she took the way of resentment and punishment and we are where we are), but she build resentment to my father because he later 6 months after their convo, he advice me to not live in a hell i live to, i of core talk to her about my and my father covo, and she was angry. So the last 5 years she was not wiling to talk to him by the phone. And yesterday she was pushing to go there and play with the kids on my father garden WTF?. How ever, we go there on the way i was silent as i am after drop the rope, when we goth there i was very chatty with all other but my wife. Generally we spend very good time all of us, then go home. I did not put nothing in this - only temp cheeking from my wife am i discus our problems with my father.

And today back to the norm, My WW told our sad story to her client (frequent client mail, who is look like someone she cant speak more freely), so i was painted as WH, controlling and mean. Who do what ever he wonted and not telling her what i am going to do. Who control her every move and so on. In reality there was not more 10 % truth, and eve this was trickle trout WTF? How ever, i an glad to have this info, this brings me close to the Drop the Rope mindset.
I am looking fro my flat.
It is looks like she prepare hers surroundings about our separation and possible divorce, to me the bad guy....i am OK with this, because i know the truth and that is important.
The rest of the time before i move to my flat, i will be very calm.
I am not going to confront nothing at all
I will cut her down men she show disrespect in front of me

This convo with her client really hit me hard from my internal sliding back, after the evening yesterday.

Will write soon

[betheoa]

I want to vent something more,
I really cannot understand why WW, tell not trout to others about her/our situation, the stories and situations are far a way from the reality, and she talk to people who are young and not so close to her to be vulnerably to her. Why she need to talk to other about her problems ....what she gain?

Thank you Sandi ...months ago, you support me in a way to do confident step, then i leave the home for a week, then go back because of the kids and lack of good place for living. But this showed me that i will not die, without my wife, or being next to her to save her from doing something out....


This week when i stay out of home and the kids was not there, and when my WW call me to ask when i will come home, and i answered, that will come home when the kids are home, she bring them at the same day . In her convo to her client, that when i have to stay at work for some evenings and sleep there (it is not true), i went to take the kids and leave them with my wife, to keep her stuck at home (it is not true, that is a 100% lye).

That is the thing that i can leave with, to tolerate this doable life, and this will get worst, because i do not see how she will bring me in better lights, some when ??

Yes it is look like she is WW, when i was WH i have never discuss nothing with no one, and never speak about my wife in such a manner.

So thanks to sandy i have a plan, after 3 months i will have opportunity (balls) to change my life, until now it was like dark please where i am, because there was not nothing i can do to bring me on place where i feel good . I take every crumb of attention and affectation my wife, as something so valuable and so on...

Now i have set and think, what will loose if i leave my wife .... nothing.
I am not talking about the kids and the things that are kids related...
But talking about What will loose me if my WW is not next to me ......nothing, why ...will contentious

[betheoa]

because:
1. She is not the person i know from the past anymore, even the person from the past, from the knowledge i have now, is not healthy.
2. She will rarely give any affection, and when she did it it is as manipulation or somehow in her favor. it is never to truly make me feel good.
3. The attention she only when is in her interest. She is not interested in me anymore. Only when she is concerned about my where abouts or/and she has some doubts.
4. Sex and other related thing to physical intimacy...there is no sex from 5 years. prior that we lived i sex starved marriage
5. Other intimacy, there is not intimacy at all from 5 years, prior that, we struggle with showing intimacy.

So about am i love her....i can rely honest answering this when, i overcome my Nice Guy, codependency and so on .

Of course i will love to share with her the rest of my life, if she make effort to cover my need and allow me to cover hers.
The love is effort not feeling.

[sandi2]

How did you learn about her conversation with her client?

I hope you will not care what she says to her clients or friends. You know what is real and true. You know you are not a bad person. You do not have to prove you are good.........just be yourself.

Come to vent on the board as much as you want.

Keep doing a good job.

[betheoa]

Hi Sandi

How did you learn about her conversation with her client?

That is part of my inlet - in this way i found out my W is WW not WAW. I can listen some of her convo. If you want to know exactly how, will write in PM. This way of snoop keep me on track to not bye her niceness and other behavior, that mess my head ....if she come out of fog.

I hope you will not care what she says to her clients or friends. You know what is real and true. You know you are not a bad person. You do not have to prove you are good.........just be yourself.

Thanks Sandi, of course i do not pay attention for other opinion, just i am wondering why she need to do this ...

Yesterday, at the evening WW come from work, i was promise my self to not show any emotion, due to her convo with the client. So be it,
I was made some dinner, when she come i just said Hi, she was chatty, said some things about her day, i was very short like (yea sure, very good and other respond like this), she was eating on the coach in front of her PC. OM start to FB chat, it was obvious to her that i seeing, and she answer him, then thy contentious to chat for a wail. I already was in mental/emotional stable condition, so i start to think what to do, about the situation.
I went to the bathroom to wash my teeth, i was thinking to go out of the house, but it will look like more like reaction to her chat, than like my GAL.
I went on balcony, to smoke, i did not look at her when i pass living room, after a wail she come on balcony to smoke too, she try to talk to me, i answer with yes/no, without looking at her. When i finish my cigarette, i went to wash my teeth again and went into bedroom. She come write after me in bed. She start asking some question about kids day, what they eat, whit hum they play and thinks like this ....i answered with one/two words. I was thinking to tell her not to speak to me, but decide to not do it - it will not bring any benefit, only will show my emotional condition..

Today in the morning i woke up, empty ...like there was not filings but calmness, i went to make coffee for me (normally will make coffee for her as well, this time i did not), purposely avoid her when i was smoking on balcony. She tried to join me on balcony, but i went in when was ready with my cigarette.
So got ready and prepare leaving for work 30 min earlier, i told her bye, she ask are you living (like it is early), i answer yes.
Right before i was leaving she ask, am i going to take the garbage, i answer NO, wright before i closed the door, she asked why i am not going to take the garbage, i answer because o do not have free hands, and left. (normally i am doing this without asking, or when she asks i am doing it, does not matter if i have free hands or not
This time i wanted to leave, i couldn't even look at her.

So, i will do nothing about recent situations. Will be as distant as possible, and look after my flat (my moving there gives me co much confident), i see this as freedom, to deal looking at my wife at the evenings .....
Something to add, after our R talk some days ago (it was initiate by her), she was convinced, that i want to leave her because she was not behaving like real woman and wife with me, and her interaction with OM was just a casual and i use it as reason ...., she was telling this to her friend/client yesterday (not the same, but the plot was like this, that i may be have OW and need reason to leave my wife/family), all this regarding my stands, that i will move i our other flat, because of her behavior.
So it is look like to others that i am dumping her, it is look likes she convincing her self the same. She hardly gaslight me about her relation/interaction with OM, i am not buying this anymore.
Be with me

will write soon

[betheoa]

Hi there, i finish my work day.

Thing at work were hard, i did my best...
Now i have 60 min travel, i did not drive so i have time to vent ...
during the day i have several panic filings, about WW went from where she is to full blown PA, or do many things just to show me how much stubborn she is (she is capable to do this), i fight this panic with, thoughts how i am living by my self and/or with other no face woman (imagine good relationship with not particular woman).
So today instead of go home after work, i am going to take exercise to marital-art (normally we going with the hole family WW and kids, but today i will go by my self, just to decrease my presents at home.

The yesterday event , chat with OM in front of me (when some days ago we had discussion about i am living after 3 months because of their contact WTF).

I just vent, i know why she was behaving like this, i have red a lot....

I relay do not remember what does mean good healthy relationship with woman. In the past i had a lot of issue, i found them 5-6 years ago when i went out of my WH fog and year later confess to WW about my infidelity(she was manipulating me hard over 1-2 months to confess, without any proofs), the i start changing my self for good, but with not proven sores, and take advise from here and there (not from this forum), i have become More nice guy then ever, so i lost my wife respect even more after lousing her trust. The things went in right direction after i found Red Pill forum, i start doing Alpha things but without support to keep doing i went back to passive living my life, give everything possible to the family (bu mostly focused of my wife), and ask nothing in return (but expect a lot of things Such a nice Guy ha!

Finally, after many wrong moves last 2-3 years, i found this site, and start reading .....a lot of reading, i have done some of the advice, but then i backed slide because i was not sure, if it was MLC or something else, also i was wearing a lot of gilt about my infidelity - so this prevent me of doing what will work...i did mostly what will not work.

The i stuck to Sandi WW definition, it is took me 6 moths or more to, have courage to write, why so long? because i know if someone stuck to me to support me i have to do wright things, because i will not waist someone time/wiling to support me, and me trying to make excuses...

Now if nothing more, i have more self confident that I will be better in future, does not mater how the things will going between Me and WW. Now i know better what is needed for good R to exist like a Man and Husband, of course i know what to ask from the woman next to me.

Huh right on my way to exercise WW call me to as where i am, i as on my way to exercise, she try to keep me to the phone, could i will go on my way back to home to bye some things, i said OK and said buy, she wished me nice exercise and start telling me about other thing related to her and kids exercise (keep me to phone), i just said fine, buy.

Today i staid longer on exercise, she called me on may way back to home, and ask if it is OK to talk (like may be i am someone :)), i said speak, then she ask me to buy something more from the shop, said OK and buy.
It is always like this, when she know that mess the things up, she become nice, if i take my guard down she become nasty ....uffff i am tired from this games, if i was fully detached it will be a lot of fun, but now it is not funny at all.

Here i am sarcastic to my self

So i am going to my home, and will be the best possible BeTheOak for the rest of the evening, tomorrow we will see, i will be other day.......but my plane is clear, 3 months to my next step in my (Soup Opera).

By the way, to day i did 2 hours high intensive exercise in marital-art, and yes the chemicals after exercise bring my confident .

Will write soon

[betheoa]

Hi there i need to vent/writhe.
Some days passed, there was nothing different in situation.

My WW try to be nice/talk i was short. The chat with OM steel going on, yesterday OM was with her to hair cut him, so there is not change in the situation with OM.

I already 3 days stay in our martial-art exercise one hour more (got home later), it is noticed by WW. Yesterday i ask my D8 to stay if she wants to do one extra hour with me, my WW was very wondered. when we got home, my wife asked me if i want to go out with her, and do more exerciser on the grass (to show her how she should do correctly). I agreed, of course i did not put anything into dish niceness/attention/or whatever good she shows.
The interesting thing was yesterday after exercise, me and WW staid in front the enter of our block and smoke, OM1 (this was our neighbor, WW developed some limerance to him 1,5 years ago - it is not current OM2). I staid very calm, i was not like rood even indifferent, but i was not chatty, there was 5 minutes talk (casual BS), then i said , fine let is go home (not ask if we are going home, just go home). Here the interesting thing was my feelings ----there was not any feelings, i just observe the situation WW/OM1 body language, how they speak, how was my Body language, i did not felt anger or other bad feelings , just calmness in me.
When we go home, WW try to follow me here and there, i did my things and did not pay so much attention to her.
She asked i i want, tomorrow (aka today), to do the same (doing exercise)in front of block - i said fine will see.

So WW try very hard to nice me some how, be with me, do the thinks with me. I am trying to avoid some of her invitation, but not to look sulk/pity/or other unattractive things.

For sure i did not show any excitements/optimism/enthusiasm about nothing related to/with her.

We did not have any R talk since last one, but i have plan, and she knows my plan - it is as simple as that "I do not want to live with woman that see not wrongs in what she does, so i am going to live in our/my new flat in the end on Jules, when the flat is ready to live there" - when we talked, there was try from her to the line "we are just friends, i did not have done anything wrong, i am controlling, i did the ultimatums ....." the hole script, then i said this.

So, i an thinking how to handle this 3 months, without being jerk and being the person that full will left:
1. Do not check her were abuts/whom/when - i was not doing this from more then 6 months.
2. call her only in emergency/ answer her not every time.
3. Not show any reaction from my side/ does not meter what she do. Only in case of obvious disrespect in front of me, to call her out at the moment.
4.Do my shear of housework, but nothing more.
5.Do not initiate any R/M talks, and avoid as much as possible her attempts to involve me. Just be broken record about my statement "I will not live in marriage like this".
Mentally be confident i will be ok, does not matter what WW do/will do.
6.Do not react, when she purposely use my buttons, i am going to cut the buttons.
7.Do not share my where about, if she asks, tell as much info as possible.
8.Be maximum mysterious, do not share my thoughts/feelings any thing that where i am mentally.
So wish me luck, that the confidence i have now, will stay longer.
I have to end this day in the best possible way, tomorrow will handle tomorrow.

Will write soon.

[sandi2]

Hi, sorry that I have been late to respond. You are gaining more strength every day. I want to ask you some questions, and you may think upon a couple of things.

Your W sees you watching her when she contact OM on her PC, yes? You said you did not leave the house b/c it would appear as if you are reacting. Do you feel she communicates with OM in front of you, to push your buttons and get a reaction?

Your plan is "dropping the rope" or "letting her go" (both the same). You do not need to be concerned what she thinks. You do not have to stay in the house when she is disrespecting you by communicating with OM in front of you. Tell her she is a disrespectful W and you do not want to be with her. Tell her you do not want her to share your bed. Tell her to sleep on the couch or in another room, b/c she is disrespectful.

If you want to leave the house when she contacts OM in front of you......then leave. She knows you see and she knows she is disrespectful to her H by talking with this OM. You are not a fool and believe they are just friends. Be stern and tell her you don't want a W who does not behave respectfully. You can leave the house without telling her where you are going or when you will return. It's okay. You don't have to stay and find something to distract you while she talks to OM. Show respect for yourself.

Does this make sense to you? Have I confused you?

She may not sleep on the couch or in another room, but you can still tell you do 't want her in your bed, then roll over to go to sleep and don't say any more to her. Remain in your bed, even if she doesn't leave. Make sense? You are telling her you don't want her there, and you turn over to go to sleep without having further conversation. Remain calm and don't fight with her.

Yes, you are dropping her, but you also show respect for yourself. You show her she is not fooling you with her game of being "friends" with OM.

I believe you are strong enough to make this step. Think about it and tell me your thoughts. If you aren't sure what I am saying, please ask questions.

((hugs))

[betheoa]

Hi Sandi,

sorry that I have been late to respond.

Every time you wrote to me, i felt like, i am not alone and less confused/scared. But i understand, there is so many other folks that need help, further more i am not in constant panic mode anymore. So sandy i appreciate any word you and others wrote to me each time.

I did not write, last several days, because i was in internal roller coaster, i did not wanted to be like emotional Yo-Yo, so i step back, and observe my self and my WW, without doing nothing different than i already commit to do/not do.
Douse days, i use the time to read in the forum, i have red, red....and than red something more. It was very helpful, with dealing with my WW niceness and nastiness

Your W sees you watching her when she contact OM on her PC, yes? You said you did not leave the house b/c it would appear as if you are reacting. Do you feel she communicates with OM in front of you, to push your buttons and get a reaction?

Particulary, about this last time chat with OM, infront of me, there was not intentionaly. I was at place, where she was clear i am seeing OM start chat, so she has not choice, then answering. If i was in other room i think she will open other window on the PC, and will not chat. But that is this time. Last summor there was a times, when she purpusly wrote to him, just to chat and to be seen from me. Ther is a lot of history, when she do things to reach reaction from me, it depends from her emotional situation.
So answering of your question short:This time she do not did purposely, but she like very much push my buttons (when have discussion, and the things went, not in her way, she start threatening me about, how she have to found some other man to look after her, or she will have sex with the firs man she found ...and other thinks like this) in the past, year ago i was reacting and become very angry, now i just ignored or leaved with smile.

Your plan is "dropping the rope" or "letting her go" (both the same). You do not need to be concerned what she thinks. You do not have to stay in the house when she is disrespecting you by communicating with OM in front of you. Tell her she is a disrespectful W and you do not want to be with her

Now i let her go, but i am at stage Fake It Until Make It :), my behavior, what i show, haw i am look like is that i let her go (i hope i am pretty much objective about me). Mentally i have long road to go, to be "make it" let her go.

This last time when she aswering to him and chat a litlle, i was redy to go out, but was late, i tought it will be beeter to go sleep to fresh in the morning. What is done -is done, if there next time i will go out. This evening right after i went to bed, she came 5 min later.

Tell her you do not want her to share your bed. Tell her to sleep on the couch or in another room, b/c she is disrespectful.

This one will be hard. There was 2-3 times in the past after arguments, when i staid my point about OM or/and her behavior, and she ask in angry way to not sleep at same bed with her, i told her that i will sleep in my bed, and she can sleep where she wants. So now, i think is too late to do this, also it will be questioned by the kids as well - but i will think about it..i am not refusing anything.

Does this make sense to you? Have I confused you?

Sani i want to hug you, there is all sens possible. I red all of your treads here, as well as most of your coments in other thereads, i have red a lot here. So i know very cleare whot you wrote about, i understend this at emotional, psihological and bioligiacal level.
So No you are not confusing me, you keep me in right direction, and i am very great-full about it. What confuse me is my fight whit my fears, my NGS, My codependency and lo self esteem, i do not show this to anyone, but i am very clear where i am emotionally, spiritually and physically:).

Yes, you are dropping her, but you also show respect for yourself. You show her she is not fooling you with her game of being "friends" with OM.

Not any more, i will not be fulled.

So last several days, i was very calm, when we were at home i give her all space possible, we did together house work. I was not sad/angry or cold, but more like indifferent. I did not change my behavior when she was nice or nasty, she tried several time to gild trip me about my infidelity (in passive aggressive meaner, also to gild trip me about the money i earn - this is because i do not agreed to bay things for her even she did not ask, like before)

She is out of her skin because i refuse to buy another flat (new investment) as well as i told her i will leave when our other flat is ready. Every other day she talk about what investment we can do (all about for the kids), i listen her. I do not agree that we will do it, just listen. She asked me if this is possible, i answer yes it is possible physically, and did not comment anything more. It was not time to go in discussion what must be happened before i agree to do something like that with her - she already know what must be done - so i am not going to repeated my self any more - i was telling the same thing more than 2 years, it is enough.

2 days ago, when she uses my name in sweet why, i shut her down. In the past i was OK when she was telling me in this way, now i found that when she talk to others, and start to talk about me in not very respectful way, she use this name, also when we are together and she fell more easy with me, and felt little more bossy, she use this name. So i told her to not call me this name any more. later she ask why i ask this, i answer that i do not want she to call me with this name any more. Period.

I will write more tomorrow, i hope to have time.

Many hugs Sandi
P.S. in the morning i was very down, now i am Fine

[sandi2]

It's good to hear from you.

she like very much push my buttons (when have discussion, and the things went, not in her way, she start threatening me about, how she have to found some other man to look after her, or she will have sex with the firs man she found

This is no threat...... when you are dropping her. She told you this to manipulate you and keep you upset. It stops working to push your buttons when you don't get upset.

Now i let her go, but i am at stage Fake It Until Make It :), my behavior, what i show, haw i am look like is that i let her go (i hope i am pretty much objective about me). Mentally i have long road to go, to be "make it" let her go

.

It's okay. You will get better when you realize you deserve more respect.

This last time when she aswering to him and chat a litlle, i was redy to go out, but was late, i tought it will be beeter to go sleep to fresh in the morning. What is done -is done, if there next time i will go out. This evening right after i went to bed, she came 5 min later.

If it is late, you don't have to leave, if you are not full of anger.

This one will be hard. There was 2-3 times in the past after arguments, when i staid my point about OM or/and her behavior, and she ask in angry way to not sleep at same bed with her, i told her that i will sleep in my bed, and she can sleep where she wants. So now, i think is too late to do this, also it will be questioned by the kids as well - but i will think about it..i am not refusing anything.

You cannot force her out of the bedroom. The point is to let her know you don't want to sleep with her when she acts like a disrespectful W. This does not mean you must be the one to leave your bed. She thinks the man automatically has to sleep on the couch, just b/c she is a woman. Not so! The spouse who has done wrong sleeps on the couch. If the kids ask why she slept on the couch, she will have to deal with answering them. However, this is just a suggestion. Do what you feel is best.

Sani i want to hug you, there is all sens possible. I red all of your treads here, as well as most of your coments in other thereads, i have red a lot here. So i know very cleare whot you wrote about, i understend this at emotional, psihological and bioligiacal level.
So No you are not confusing me, you keep me in right direction, and i am very great-full about it. What confuse me is my fight whit my fears, my NGS, My codependency and lo self esteem, i do not show this to anyone, but i am very clear where i am emotionally, spiritually and physically:).

You are very kind and encourage me a lot. ((hugs))

You will conquer these issues. How do I know? B/c you are doing what you must do, in spite of being afraid. The cowardly man feels fear and lets it paralyze him. The brave man feels fear and does what he must do. In my opinion, you are overcoming lies that has captured your mind for a long time. You listened to lies whisper in your ear about Betheoa. Don't let the lies defeat you any longer. Believe in the man you truly are.

2 days ago, when she uses my name in sweet why, i shut her down. In the past i was OK when she was telling me in this way, now i found that when she talk to others, and start to talk about me in not very respectful way, she use this name, also when we are together and she fell more easy with me, and felt little more bossy, she use this name. So i told her to not call me this name any more. later she ask why i ask this, i answer that i do not want she to call me with this name any more. Period.

Well done!