Steve, well done with your D! My ex and I have been through similar with all 3 of our kids, and when they around the same age as your D. I really think it's a rebellion thing, the kids at some point start testing limits to see what they can get away with. The thing is, they WANT their parents to intervene and put some discipline in their lives. Sure they'll complain about what jerks their parents are being, but inside they know you're loving them and teaching them important life lessons. Our experience was that once the kids saw they couldn't cross certain lines in our house, then they never tried to cross them again. Both D's are grown now and incredibly focused, so it was just a phase. S15 is getting there, he's just emerging from his rebellious stage.
Thanks AS. It has been stressful. But I agree, I think she was testing us and us putting our foot down drew a line she now knows not to cross. Trusting her again is going to be tough though.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So last night after we went to bed I initiated a R discussion. This the first time I've done that since February outside of MC.
I think I had mentioned before, that after the 2-3 weeks where she was crazy sexual, that she had casually mentioned to me that "the sex thing seemed to be gone for now". I didn't think too much of it and have actually initiate twice with her since then.
The last time was a little different. She was clearly not quite as into it has she had been the several times before. (This was a week ago Saturday.)
Also we still do not kiss above closed mouth "smooches". Not really just pecks, but definitely not passionate. And while she occasionally is affectionate, 99% of the time I initiate the affection whether it be hugs, holding hands, sitting close, snuggling, etc. (She still is most receptive to snuggling in bed in the morning before getting up for the day.)
So I mentioned it. I stayed calm and just asked some probing questions. I made it just informational and tried to make it as non-confrontational as I could. I worked hard not to attack and just ask things like "why do you think you aren't affectionate anymore?" "Any thoughts on why we still can't kiss passionately?"
Probably the most confrontational question was "You casually mentioned that the sex desire had disappeared, was that a hint for me to back off sexually?"
I got mostly "I don't knows". She then launched into a fairly upset sounding diatribe about how things were still up in the air between us and the marriage, and that is why we are in counseling. And that even the counselor said it would take a longtime.
I tried to tell her that I was just trying to openly communicate with her. That I was trying to get clarity, after what happened a month and a half ago (where we were both initiating sex to great success), as to how to proceed for the time-being. That I didn't want to pressure her and initiate if she was receptive to it. Again, she didn't know.
It was difficult not to probe more but I apologized if I had upset her and said good night and turned over.
However, I didn't sleep very well. Maybe got 3 hours on and off with the most being about a 2 hour block. Mind just kept spinning. Some of my thoughts:
1) She clearly isn't as committed to the marriage as I thought she was. While she told the MC a few weeks ago that she was more for staying in the marriage than leaving it, that apparently is like a 51-49 thing as opposed to what I thought was closer to 90-10. But that she was so quick to jump to questioning the future shows she isn't committed.
2) Apparently, based on some other things she said ("We had a year's worth of sex during that period a few weeks ago." "I think couples get to the point where they just want their space instead of being affectionate and snuggly, like your parents sleeping in separate beds.") she sees us staying married without a lot of physical contact. Something I am not interested in.
3) We had an exchange where she commented on the book the MC is having us read. The book mentioned how a couple was mismatched related to affection, until the one that was thinking the lack of affection was related to them, realized that the lack of affection was due to their spouse's past. She said it in a way like "so my lack of affection doesn't have anything to do with you." I pointed out that I could accept that explanation except for the majority of our marriage she was very affectionate. And was the primary initiator of the affection. This highlighted to me that she is still rewriting our history because she then said she didn't remember being that way except while we were dating. HUH? She was very affectionate until about a year ago.
I also mentioned that my fear was that there was a pattern we went through, where she felt underappreciated and ignored, then went looking for it elsewhere. I said my fear is that if it continues that she would again go looking elsewhere to which her response was "I don't think I will". It was said less than convincingly I might add.
So all of this clearly points to the fact that while strides and improvements have been made, clearly she isn't completely over her waywardness or MLC or walkaway syndrome or whatever she has been going through.
At one point I asked if she had any ideas why after being insatiable suddenly it had stopped. Her answer "I am 50 now." Admittedly the period where she was so insatiable was the weekend before her 50th birthday, but that seems so illogical. (I didn't tell her that by the way). Could that really have something to do with it? Like one last "in my 40s" sexual push? That just is so weird to me.
Anyway, I should have kept my mouth shut obviously, but I will be bringing this up in our next MC session. And I am ready to accept any 2x4s you all want to send my way.
Situation with D14 continues to improve. She is much more interested in completing her school work. She thinks she did well on both of her math tests last week (scores should be posted online this week), and has even had a better attitude at times. Though last night she got an attitude over being asked to a household chore. So it is still a work in progress.
If you are still with me, thanks for reading. Any and all perspectives would be appreciated.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve, this all sounds similar to what I have experienced along the way. BTW, my W stated her EA just before her big 50. We had more sex during the A than now. First she said she didn't want to confuse me. When I explained that it didn't. Now she says it confuses her. IDK
I know you are tired of all the "I don't knows" I know I am.
Yes, you shouldn't have started the R talk. I understand the need. Fact is we rarely know more after these discussions.
More ambivalence more confusion.
Stay strong, buddy.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
Thanks RR. The hard part is that my W is back in almost every other way. But she just isn't as affectionate as she used to be. It is really hard to know if it just a natural occurrence as she claims, or if it a side-effect of her recent WW syndrome. Hard to say.
I did poll some friends about it and it seems that most couples that I know anecdotally have similar dynamics going on in their marriages.
Again, women marry a man hoping he will change, men marry a woman hoping she doesn't. We don't, they do. S*cks to be us.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Please don't fall for the "things seem to be getting back to normal trap" You will be here again.
Reconciliation is the goal. Real change comes from Revolution. not evolution.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
Please don't fall for the "things seem to be getting back to normal trap" You will be here again.
Reconciliation is the goal. Real change comes from Revolution. not evolution.
Well, I mean our new normal. Not the pre-bomb date normal. The 5-6 months leading up to BD were not normal. It was months of growing apart without even realizing it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
Again, women marry a man hoping he will change, men marry a woman hoping she doesn't. We don't, they do. S*cks to be us.
Wow, I've not heard, read, or thought about it that way before, but that is almost profound. It was clearly the case with my ExW. Add in she was never honest with me about what she really wanted, heck not about much else either. But yeah, she hoped I'd change. I clearly was very very honest and forthcoming about who I am. I'm brutally honest and what you see us what you get. I did not change, but she did or decided what she really wanted was now going to be pursued. Don't get me wrong, I was a bad husband in many ways but wow your comment really hits home. Good stuff.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
