Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling.

[AnotherStander]

I think I had mentioned before, that after the 2-3 weeks where she was crazy sexual, that she had casually mentioned to me that "the sex thing seemed to be gone for now". I didn't think too much of it and have actually initiate twice with her since then.

I have read so many sitches here where people get stuck in a sexless R, and I don't recall reading one where the sex ever came back once they let that happen. I mean it's not -completely- gone for you yet, but it sounds to me like your W is laying the groundwork for a sexless M. Personally if it were me I would flat-out tell her that it is not acceptable (seems like I have to "lay down the law" on that at least once in every serious romantic relationship I have!)

Also we still do not kiss above closed mouth "smooches". Not really just pecks, but definitely not passionate.

Yeah that's a concern. Some women think kissing is too "personal" and only do that with someone they are "in love" with so it's not a good sign.

So I mentioned it. I stayed calm and just asked some probing questions. I made it just informational and tried to make it as non-confrontational as I could. I worked hard not to attack and just ask things like "why do you think you aren't affectionate anymore?" "Any thoughts on why we still can't kiss passionately?"

Probably the most confrontational question was "You casually mentioned that the sex desire had disappeared, was that a hint for me to back off sexually?"

It sounds like you handled it pretty well, I think I would have also mentioned that I have physical needs that need to be met and that it's important that she respects that on a regular basis. Have you read No More Mister Nice Guy? It gets into this type of stuff about stating what your needs are. Not a good idea after BD, but in piecing or in a healthy relationship it's a must.

I got mostly "I don't knows". She then launched into a fairly upset sounding diatribe about how things were still up in the air between us and the marriage, and that is why we are in counseling. And that even the counselor said it would take a longtime.

And what, she shouldn't be expected to have sex with you in the meantime? That's ridiculous.

1) She clearly isn't as committed to the marriage as I thought she was.

Agreed.

2)"I think couples get to the point where they just want their space instead of being affectionate and snuggly, like your parents sleeping in separate beds.") she sees us staying married without a lot of physical contact. Something I am not interested in.

First, who gives a crap about "other couples". She expects you to model your marriage on sexless examples? No, not acceptable. Next time she says this then tell her it's not acceptable to you. You say you're not interested in that, TELL HER.

I also mentioned that my fear was that there was a pattern we went through, where she felt underappreciated and ignored, then went looking for it elsewhere. I said my fear is that if it continues that she would again go looking elsewhere to which her response was "I don't think I will". It was said less than convincingly I might add.

It sounds to me like the way you talk to her is very passive/aggressive MNG stuff. Talking to her about your fears and such. You're afraid she might look elsewhere? How about YOU tell HER she should be afraid YOU will look elsewhere. State your needs. Expect them to be met. Put her on notice. Obviously you can't go all Jeckyl and Hyde on her, but you need to slowly shift to a more alpha position.

At one point I asked if she had any ideas why after being insatiable suddenly it had stopped. Her answer "I am 50 now." Admittedly the period where she was so insatiable was the weekend before her 50th birthday, but that seems so illogical. (I didn't tell her that by the way). Could that really have something to do with it? Like one last "in my 40s" sexual push? That just is so weird to me.

If I remember right (unless I'm mixing up two situations, which has happened before) a lot of us warned you that we didn't trust her sudden explosive interest in sex. It did not seem at all genuine. Don't try to figure out what a WAS is thinking or what their motivations are because there is no explanation. All you can control is YOU. So what do YOU want moving forward? Tell her what you want and expect.

Anyway, I should have kept my mouth shut obviously, but I will be bringing this up in our next MC session. And I am ready to accept any 2x4s you all want to send my way.

I disagree, I think you did the right thing in saying something. I think you should be more assertive/ alpha in these discussions, but the dialog needs to happen or things will just continue to deteriorate.

[SteveLW]

Thanks AS. I should mention that all of her actions still suggest that she wants to work on the marriage, but the minute I apply pressure she falls back on it.

I did read NMMNG. And yes I still struggle with NGS. I am better after reading the book though. I have been much less passive-aggressive since reading the book.

[JRuss]

Have you read the pursuit/distance materials cadet linked after you first posted?

[SteveLW]

Have you read the pursuit/distance materials cadet linked after you first posted?

Yes. Multiple times. Admittedly I didn't adhere strictly to them, for various reasons documented in my threads.

[JRuss]

But you're still pursuing, and she's, predictably, still distancing. Why do you think this is going to change if the underlying behaviors don't change?

[SteveLW]

JRuss, no not usually. I did "pursue" with the R talk the other night. But in general I am not pursuing, we are in MC, and she is doing the work.

I am hesitant to call it piecing yet, but we are both doing work on the MR which wasn't the case prior to mid-Feb.

[EastTN]

JRuss, no not usually. I did "pursue" with the R talk the other night. But in general I am not pursuing

Everyone always says that. Here's you a few days ago:

Thanks AS. I should mention that all of her actions still suggest that she wants to work on the marriage, but the minute I apply pressure she falls back on it.

[SteveLW]

JRuss, no not usually. I did "pursue" with the R talk the other night. But in general I am not pursuing

Everyone always says that. Here's you a few days ago:

Thanks AS. I should mention that all of her actions still suggest that she wants to work on the marriage, but the minute I apply pressure she falls back on it.

And I hadn't applied pressure until the other night in weeks.

[Salazar]

Steve,

Although our stitches are different, I do see some similarities. In my case, physical rejection (lack of hugging etc) is one of the things that my W cites as causing her the most pain. She is of the mindset that if she brought it up, it wasn't my idea and it shouldn't count if I do anything about it. At this point, it is a moot point I guess, because she is unwilling to have any physical touch. In my case, I have been unsure how to fix "physical rejection" without physical touch.

For several months after BD I tried being either aggressive or not doing anything at all. Neither gave any results. Just a few weekends ago I started to try and work very light/small touching into the very conversations that we had in person. She didn't recoil and it actually seemed to help some. I do not think it is a one for one comparison to some of what you are experiencing, but I think some of the ideas may help you. You can do a web search for "Kino" and it talks about things in more detail, but in my case, I would do things like, say "is your shoulder sunburnt, it looks sort of red" and then at same instant reach over and lightly touch the shoulder and say "is this sore at all". Again, I know this is very minor but it is a progression from my previous zero contact. You can adjust to your own level, but remember to show her the way, not try and talk about it before hand. Just my two cents.

[SteveLW]

Thank you Salazar. I do need to clarify that, fortunately, my W wasn't opposed to all physical touching. The only thing she really can't do is kiss me passionately. And while I've talked to a lot of people about this being somewhat normal in couples that have been together for a longtime, I do know that it was something she really enjoyed prior to our current problems. So it something that I hope will eventually return.

But yes, I found another marriage saving expert (not MWD) a while back that had the concept of "touch" charges. Very similar to what you are describing. So putting your hand on her back as you passed behind her. Or giving a rub on the shoulder when you walked past her on the couch. Stuff like that. I instituted those as well as the touching she was open to (hugging, closed mouth kisses, stroking her hair, giving her foot and back massages, cuddling) and I think it all helped in turning the ship around in the intimacy department.

We still have a ways to go but her and I are in so much of a better place all the way around since BD last Dec.