My condolences zues. I imagine you must feel loss, but also sadness and concern for your sisters well being as well as your sons.
There are no words for such a loss. I look at addicion at that level as a really sad, unfair and destructive disease that extends out and beyond and deeply affects family amd society. Its a shattering loss of love and potential.
Im very sorry and wish for strength for your family.
Prayers and a moment of silence. I am so sorry. For the life that was lost, for your sister's hopes and dreams, for your sons fears, and all you have to deal with.
It really is a tragedy. I know you will be there for your sister and you are very empathetic to her sitch.
Zues, I am so sorry for your sister and the loss of her love and her child. Sometimes we don't understand the reasons for things occurring as they do, but your journey through loss, may provide her with some comfort and allows you to show the compassion and care she likely is desperately in need of at this time.
We are here for you as a shoulder to lean on, as she leans on yours.
Thanks guys. It's been a heck of a week. Whirlwind of family, tears, and confusion.
I'm worried about my sister. I know she's in a very vulnerable spot. I know she doesn't feel she fits in with the normal group and feels more at home with the tortured artist types (musicians and artists, who are also recovering or active junkies and addicts). But there is a high cost for being part of that scene. She's been paying that cost for 20+ years. At what point do you decide to give it up?
I feel like she should reconnect with people from the church we grew up in. They know her and care about her. And while they may be 'boring', they are also ALIVE. I guess I'm a little angry about this. It seems so clear to me.
My sister got married to a guy 15 years ago, but divorced him a couple of years later because he was 'boring'. She just wasn't feeling it. She ended up hooking up with a drummer who was an active heroin user and was extremely abusive for the last few years of their relationship. I can't say it to her so I'll say it to you all: DUH!
I DON'T UNDERSTAND PEOPLE. Look. There are surface things like looks and fashion. Then there are measures like money, status, and education level. Then you've got things like personalities, interests, goals and dreams, political views, and religion. But underneath all of that you have values and beliefs.
It's these values and beliefs that in my mind really define a person. Do they stay in their marriage or do they walk? Do they follow a destructive path and bring everyone around them down with it, or do they take care of themselves and then try to help guide others through?
I am VERY careful about who I am close friends with. My best friend is married with three kids, a committed husband, and active in his church. He's very reflective and holds himself to a high standard. He is also a very successful business man, top pool player, funny, smart, and I'd imagine most women would think good looking. But my point is that he inspires me to be more like him. I'm lucky to have a friend like him and he's made a positive impact on my life. My other friends share these qualities. And while I have some fondness with good acquaintances that have some checkered lives, I won't get too close with them because I know I become the average of my 5 closes friends and I want to push myself in the right direction.
I just don't understand why people get so hung up on the surface things. So many people are careless with who they let into their lives. When it comes to partnering up most claim they care most about the values and beliefs (or they admit they want the unicorn partner that is a clean sweep on all levels), but there are so many examples of how this isn't what people do in practice.
I get it. The superficial is appealing and easier to identify, and we are animals that are influenced by emotions and hormones. But isn't there a point where we can become humans who transcend those? It's like the whole 'men want good looking girls and women want bad boys' thing. OK, that's fine, each to their own...but is that really how you're going to determine who you build a life with?
I am frustrated with my sister for leaving her husband who was an awesome guy. Oh, I don't know what went on behind closed doors but I do know that in her post divorce narrative she never accused him of anything nasty. And you all know how rare that is. Why did she leave him? For an abusive junkie? And then for another guy who would destroy her life and hopes of ever having a family?
I guess it wakes up feelings about why I'm where I'm at as well. Why did I get BD'd? I never closed my fist in anger. I didn't call her horrible names. I didn't refuse to get a job, or drink, or anything crazy. Looking back at the man I was in my 20s I was immature, lacked relationship skills, and definitely wasn't a great husband. But I was a rookie. I was still learning the job. I just will never understand why I was dumped any more than why my sister left her husband. And it's not just XW or my sister. These boards are filled with the same story.
I'm ok. These are just some of the questions I got numb to asking years ago. I understand why it was triggered, and now I can let go and keep going down my road. Meanwhile I can be there for my sister and give her a bump in the right direction when she's open to it now and then, but ultimately it's her road. This is hard to type but I'm I'm pessimistic about the quality and duration of her future. That stinks. A lot. Having her still here but feeling this sense of doom that something horrible is going to happen and you can't stop it.
She's my sister and I love her and don't want that. I just want to stop time so I don't have to see her taken away.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Maybe people are just on different life paths. They have to figure it out themselves. Something so glaringly obvious to you does not really enter into their mind set. Not at this time. And yeah, its frustrating while you are watching it. Its like post BD. It is all so senseless and destructive and most of all avoidable.
Quantum physics does not come naturally to me. I am not even interested in attempting to learn about it. I do know it exists though. Some people do not. Same thing with relationships. For some people they don't know what they don't know. Or they just don't have the capacity. They view relationships and partners as I did when I was 15.
We all mature and grow differently. We all have different capacities. Different levels of emotional intelligence.
Maybe just be a friend to your sister for now. Accept her for who she is at this time. I think that's all you can do.
There are so many scenarios that makes no sense to us, but makes sense to other people.
One possible one with your sister, and I have seen with many people, and in this book I am reading.....
People self-sabotage because something in their brain tells them they don't deserve something good. Like your sister and the awesome first husband. Perhaps there is something in there that felt like she couldn't be good enough. It's truly sad. Sometimes people actually think they are doing the other person a favor.
There are so many depths to people that we could never truly understand. I have been learning that so much over the past few years.
I think I have told you..... my exH was my friend's boyfriend. I never ever let myself live it down what I did. I still have to deal with it in IC. She showed me at the time in my life it was a survivial mechanism. I lost everyone, I was 18, and I was scared I was going to die. In my head, it was hurt my friend, or not survive. I was not the kind of person who would hurt anyone like that. But I did. Good news is our friendship survived and we are very close.
I think not all people who do bad things are bad people. For some it is a survival mechanism.
You being there for support the way you are I am sure is a great help.
Thanks guys. You're right G, who the heck knows the deeper reasons people do the things they do.
Today my sister posted something about how she had married dead finance (DF). DF's mom performed the ceremony. She heard DF's voice say "I do" and felt his spirit in the nature as they walked through the places they used to spend time in together. This post was two pages long.
Now, this could be done in a way that made people think "That is so sweet". But the way it was done made me think "Norman Bates". It wasn't just me. My mom agreed that the post was creepy and delusional, and my mom is heading over to my sister's mother's place because she is freaked out after reading that post. You'll have to take my word for it. It was an 11/10 on the craziness scale.
My mom thinks sister was addicted to DF. I think she projected so much onto DF she hardly could see who he was, her glasses weren't just rose tinted, they were solid rose. Rose everywhere. DF stopped being a real person and he just became the symbol for every positive emotion she ever had. I'm talking major fog.
I'm ashamed to say this but I don't care. I'm almost sad that he died because I wanted to see this thing go down in flames so maybe she could get a wake up call and stop being so darn crazy.
The funny thing is it reminded me of the facebook post my XW made the day she came to after her failed suicide attempt. It was so expansive and overly dramatic and attention and sympathy and support seeking. I can't describe it. It was like a celebrity that goes to treatment and wants to be adored for it. When I told that to my mom she one hundred percent agreed. She speculated that's why sister and XW hit it off so well. They both lived in this dreamy world of twue wuv and happiness. No surprise they both were swept up in their respective affairs and both filed Ds.
This is why I have a low tolerance to embroidered sayings on pillows and pictures of pretty clouds with cliches about life on them. It's so XW.
And I have a deep distrust for people. Jordan Peterson said that money doesn't solve problems, and that in many cases it exasperates them because it removes the limits on the damage they could inflict on themselves. As long as someone has to go to work, as long as they can't afford to go off the deep end because of life consequences, reality holds them in check. But with enough money they can get lost. Think middle ages. A serf that had to work 14 hours a day might have crazy potential, but it couldn't be let out because they have to work. But the kings, boy, could THEY get out of control! Let's drive out all infidel, or conquer the world, or have 500 wives, or whatever else they feel they are destined to do.
I feel like there are two things that traditionally kept people's crazy in check: Hardship and society's belief system. And they are both eroding. Everyone of us today lives like a king of the middle ages. And our cultural values are helter skelter with the most consistent belief being that we are all free to find our own beliefs. What's left to reign in people's craziness? NOTHING.
I look around and so many people are so smug in what they think are enlightened belief structures, but meanwhile when you zoom way out and look at their lives they are train wrecks causing collateral damage to whoever gets too close. But they don't see that, because they either rewrite the narrative or don't acknowledge the damage they've done because hey, if it makes you happy it can't be that bad.
So you guys want to know why I'm the lone ranger over here? That's it. I think people don't place enough value on what matters that I could bring, they're too caught up in things that I don't feel matter that I might not, and they are too destructive for me to want to invite that into my life.
And I'm human and probably no different. I might be crazy and just as destructive. But for some reason when I'm on my own I feel sane and grounded. I am being a good father, a good employee, and I'm doing what is in front of me. I don't feel crazy. But who does? So just in case, it's nice to know I won't hurt anyone else.
Maybe I'll feel differently in 5-10 years. I could write all the rebuttals, there's probably women that feel the same way, you just have to know what you're looking for and get out there, etc. Well, I know what I'm looking for right now. What I've got. I'm doing ok. I'll raise my kids and see where I'm at when my youngest graduates.
Thanks for listening gang. Sorry I haven't been more active on your threads. I feel close to y'all and distant due to some differences we have as well. No one needs to hear how I don't think serial relationships or FWBs or casual sex are terrible or that they should quit dating forever for the reasons above. So I just keep to myself. But I love all of you guys and hope you each prove me wrong. For what it's worth you are some of the lease crazy people I know
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I think people of all socioeconomic backgrounds cheat, lie, betray, get addicted to drugs and alcohol. I dont agree that hardship keeps them in check. Lets not romantacize the working class. That argument in itself sounds a bit classist.
I also dont blame society. I think ending marriage or committing acts that end marriages (cheating) is an individual decision. Its a choice each individual makes. And to blame it on society, absolves them of responsibility.
I grew up in the same society. Watched the same crappy reality tv shows. Have aquaintances that have made awful choices regarding betrayal of spouse/dissolving of a marriage.
I was very unhappy in my marriage. Looking back, i had more of a reason to cheat or leave then my aquaintances ever did...my son and i were ignored, my ex could physically not perform. He couldnt give me a 2nd child. He couldn't provide. He did not give me companionship. He could not give me financial stability (despite higher education and a 6 figure income?) He was living a secret double life for years.
I was loyal, because thats who i am at the core. Im not religious, wasnt raised with any moral upbringing. Its who i am. Who my parents are.
I dont even know if its necessarily a good thing.
Perhaps people that are less loyal, more self serving do better in life. Get higher up on that food chain. Procreate more. Evolved to be that way by some gene that sets them up to move up in this world. To have easier lives cause they have no sense of responsibility for others.
Now does society nurture this?
Yes. These forums were all about absolving individual responsibility of our waywards. So maybe you have a point. But i dont think society makes us like that.
Do you think society should play more of a role incorporating punishment to those that dont stand by marriage? Would that work? Or would it just get swept up under the rug?
Do you support presidents like clinton and Trump who blatantly dismiss marriage? I believe jordan Peterson said he suppprted trump? Is that hypocritical and where is your stance on the hypocritical? Do you sweep it under the rug because you suppport their bigger ideologies?
On a side note...God. I wish my level of committment did not exist!!! Had i been capable of leaving earlier, Had i been more self serving i would have been younger and had more options post a divorce.
But my point is that, i believe committment is something ingrained in the individual. Marriage works only when you get 2 people that are responsible/honest types together. Thats why 50 percent of marriages fail..cause there are a lot of individuals out there that are just dishonest or are self serving.
Changing the topic
Regarding you post divorce...I dont think any one is saying its right or wrong to be a lone ranger. I understand where its easier to go it alone. Relationships bring out emotions which are not stable nor are they predictable. They bring out vulnerablity. They are risky investments of time, and money, and emotions of nott just you but your kids as well. So if that doesnt benefit you in any way, why pursue one?
Also, an individual matter. Some people benefit..they like companionship (or whatever else a relationsjip brings to them . For others, the benefits of said companionship/monogamy does not not outweigh the risks.
Personally, i think my strategy was to find someone that was less risk. But that was also my strategy with ex. So i dont not see your point. Maybe i have more to gain from the risk then you? I dont know. Just rambling now:)
